OH snap, so the females rule got yanked?

4/9/2010 1:42pm
Go find a 150sx bud.
edited for dumbass: answer to your question: Because people buy what pros race.
Tiki wrote:
Earlier you said they are sold out? So pros must race them then.
flarider wrote:
What class do pros race a 150SX?
This should be interesting.
Racer92
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4/9/2010 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:00pm
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an...
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an '09 for right now. IMO those prices are about the economy sucks ass and ppl are holding onto their bikes instead of getting a new one every year. No I don't think they would have a harder time moving the thumpers if the 2T was there. They are too close in price and ppl want the edge so they buy a 250F for the 125/250 class or a 450 for the 250/450 class.
No problem, and I do think you are right about the economic aspect, but I honestly think that people just thinking twice before buying a bike that the resale value is so flat on. From what I can tell from this area, used smokers arent doing bad and I see WTB ads for YZs & RMs quite often now.

I wonder what a 2010 RMZ250 would cost a year from now? OTD?
Tiki
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4/9/2010 1:44pm
Go find a 150sx bud.
edited for dumbass: answer to your question: Because people buy what pros race.
Tiki wrote:
Earlier you said they are sold out? So pros must race them then.
flarider wrote:
What class do pros race a 150SX?
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Are-the-OEMs-scared-of-a-1…

miedosoracing1 wrote: And the 150sx is sold out around the nation. So I guess that kills your theory. 2 strokes are selling out and 4 strokes are not. So the demand is there.
drmarkr
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4/9/2010 1:49pm
newmann wrote:
Funny how butt hurt the four stroke lovers get when the 2 stroke issue comes up. Point is, DC got the 250 2 stroke approved for...
Funny how butt hurt the four stroke lovers get when the 2 stroke issue comes up. Point is, DC got the 250 2 stroke approved for the womens class. Now they flip flopped on the deal? Who exactly is the flopper this time?
Spot fucking on....

The Shop

4/9/2010 1:51pm
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an...
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an '09 for right now. IMO those prices are about the economy sucks ass and ppl are holding onto their bikes instead of getting a new one every year. No I don't think they would have a harder time moving the thumpers if the 2T was there. They are too close in price and ppl want the edge so they buy a 250F for the 125/250 class or a 450 for the 250/450 class.
Racer92 wrote:
No problem, and I do think you are right about the economic aspect, but I honestly think that people just thinking twice before buying a bike...
No problem, and I do think you are right about the economic aspect, but I honestly think that people just thinking twice before buying a bike that the resale value is so flat on. From what I can tell from this area, used smokers arent doing bad and I see WTB ads for YZs & RMs quite often now.

I wonder what a 2010 RMZ250 would cost a year from now? OTD?
Maybe, on the resale point.

With the economy sliding further into the shitter who knows what the left over prices are going to be. The '09's are lower than I envisioned them being at the end of '08 early '09.
kawboy388
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4/9/2010 1:57pm
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an...
Sorry if my post came off that way but as I said previously I paid more for my 450 in '06 than I can get an '09 for right now. IMO those prices are about the economy sucks ass and ppl are holding onto their bikes instead of getting a new one every year. No I don't think they would have a harder time moving the thumpers if the 2T was there. They are too close in price and ppl want the edge so they buy a 250F for the 125/250 class or a 450 for the 250/450 class.
Racer92 wrote:
No problem, and I do think you are right about the economic aspect, but I honestly think that people just thinking twice before buying a bike...
No problem, and I do think you are right about the economic aspect, but I honestly think that people just thinking twice before buying a bike that the resale value is so flat on. From what I can tell from this area, used smokers arent doing bad and I see WTB ads for YZs & RMs quite often now.

I wonder what a 2010 RMZ250 would cost a year from now? OTD?
The 10 RMZ250 is going to be very limited here in the U.S. Doubt you'll see many
leftovers.
4/9/2010 2:02pm
kawboy388 wrote:
The 10 RMZ250 is going to be very limited here in the U.S. Doubt you'll see many
leftovers.
I so wish they would ship equal numbers of RMZ250's and RM250's just to test the market. You know, because everyone keeps saying, market demand and if there was demand, they would make them bla bla bla
Racer92
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4/9/2010 2:10pm
kawboy388 wrote:
The 10 RMZ250 is going to be very limited here in the U.S. Doubt you'll see many
leftovers.
I so wish they would ship equal numbers of RMZ250's and RM250's just to test the market. You know, because everyone keeps saying, market demand and...
I so wish they would ship equal numbers of RMZ250's and RM250's just to test the market. You know, because everyone keeps saying, market demand and if there was demand, they would make them bla bla bla
Seems to me Zook is the only company using their heads by not shipping new bikes until the market absorbs whats already out there. I mean, why buy a 2010 model 450F bike when you can get a prior model that is 1-2 years old, but still brand new, many thousands less? Like panic-rev said, add in crappy economy conditions and it just doesnt make sense to flood the market place with even more newer units.

I still think that 250 smokers would sell just fine if they were out there. Im not talking record levels, but they would sell them. Especially now that people have woke up from the 4-stroke frenzy.
Tiki
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4/9/2010 2:18pm
kawboy388 wrote:
The 10 RMZ250 is going to be very limited here in the U.S. Doubt you'll see many
leftovers.
I so wish they would ship equal numbers of RMZ250's and RM250's just to test the market. You know, because everyone keeps saying, market demand and...
I so wish they would ship equal numbers of RMZ250's and RM250's just to test the market. You know, because everyone keeps saying, market demand and if there was demand, they would make them bla bla bla
Racer92 wrote:
Seems to me Zook is the only company using their heads by not shipping new bikes until the market absorbs whats already out there. I mean...
Seems to me Zook is the only company using their heads by not shipping new bikes until the market absorbs whats already out there. I mean, why buy a 2010 model 450F bike when you can get a prior model that is 1-2 years old, but still brand new, many thousands less? Like panic-rev said, add in crappy economy conditions and it just doesnt make sense to flood the market place with even more newer units.

I still think that 250 smokers would sell just fine if they were out there. Im not talking record levels, but they would sell them. Especially now that people have woke up from the 4-stroke frenzy.
Racer92 from what I know of Suzuki as a worldwide corporation they haven't the assets to move new into what hasn't sold. This is a choice of need not want.

The majority of these threads are based solely around MX bikes. It needs to be said the Japaneses manufacturers don't just make MX bikes. Some make instruments, others cars, others appliances and heavy equipment. Bottom line is very, very important. Nothing would be done in risk or probability. They are run by the accounting departments. So experimental bikes such as a four stroke in 97, maybe a 200 in 01, 350 in 2011 are all left for others to test the waters. Yamaha took a big gamble, probably three year gamble on the new 450.
Tiki
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4/9/2010 2:52pm
That is exactly it. Mediso makes wild claims of grandeur and then has nothing to back them up. OR he takes credit for these so called ideas. The guy is passionate, to me that is cool. Misdirected - in a big way. We get him seeing the forest for the trees he may run with it.

We all get it. The rule should stay. Let Sara win some races. Its the outlandish way he goes about it.

UK, you and others are spot on why the two stroke left. It wasn't a ploy to make us all buy expensive bikes that break. The manufactures needed to act, they did and are adjusting. Any of you remember back to the 80's when you could seize a two stroke by looking at it funny? The rules are changing. For bikes, competitive bikes for factories making them. They are all watching the bottom line and taking small steps. I enjoy these threads for their audacity in statements. Then its fun to see the result.
Fast Orange
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4/9/2010 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:00pm
You know what's really funny is how in the last five years the OEM's have brainwashed the mx community into thinking four strokes are the future of mx! How you ask? By discontinuing the production of two strokes, & ramming four strokes twice the size of two strokes down AMA's throat & holding their mouths shut till they swallow. (Honda CRF 150R). This bike was not even within the cc rule & Honda just said too frickin bad.

Ultimately it was too bad for Honda, who had some very pissed dealers stuck with a ton of small wheel 150's!

KTM deserves everything they get as far as mx racing. They spent the money, & put the effort into their company for you & me, the racer. They may not be on the podium as much as the others, but look at the ratios & the talent behind them. OEM's have the dough to make even me want to hold the bitch WFO around a SX track!

And by the way, a properly tuned 150 SX WILL beat a 250F, but not a 300F. Give me 25 more cc on the 150, & we'll have a race.

DC, if you're looking, I applaud your decision to allow the 250 two stroke in amatuer lites competition. Keep up the equality! It makes for better racing!
noob
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4/9/2010 3:03pm
Starting a thread with "OH snap!" shoulda gotten this dude clicked.
nobhead
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4/9/2010 3:55pm
bogdan912 wrote:
You two stroke die hards need to get over it. Most of the OEMs don't even make new ones anymore!
All it took was Henry 19 to win on the 4 stroke to change the direction of the sport. If cc's were power and torque more equel and someone again won a championship on a two stroke. I would change direction again. Imagine Alessi on a 300cc two stroke. I would actually root for him. How hard is for a knowledgable engineer to determine a 2 stroke displacement that would be equal or a little less than a 250/450 4 stroke. Then the racer could bore existing Yams. To much confusion for nothing.
creed
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4/9/2010 4:30pm
YZ 426 I had it explained to me it was designed by the Yamaha F1 engineer who lost his job when Yamaha pulled out or got pushed out of F1.

He came up with the 426 and 250f by reducing the F1 motor he had developed for F1.
I will wait for Tikstar or Flad to confirm.

Why did Honda make a 150 4st, was there already a class set by The AMA or did they just start another class.
wmapop700
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4/9/2010 6:48pm
creed wrote:
YZ 426 I had it explained to me it was designed by the Yamaha F1 engineer who lost his job when Yamaha pulled out or got...
YZ 426 I had it explained to me it was designed by the Yamaha F1 engineer who lost his job when Yamaha pulled out or got pushed out of F1.

He came up with the 426 and 250f by reducing the F1 motor he had developed for F1.
I will wait for Tikstar or Flad to confirm.

Why did Honda make a 150 4st, was there already a class set by The AMA or did they just start another class.
I seem to remember an Interview w/ a spokesman from Honda Saying that they make bikes for the world not just the U.S.A. and the F.I.M. allowed the 150cc four strokes to race the 85cc class. I think it was a great bike for that class. Needed some work to run the supermini class against the 112cc bikes but, I worked really well for my Daughter when she would race local stuff on it.
Crush
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4/9/2010 7:06pm
I don't see why they don't just make the easiest rule change...

150 two strokes in the lites class and open 2 strokes (250 + ? u feel like) in the 450 class... which will end up being a 350 class anyways...

the 250 smoker isn't fair against the 250 thumpers... and it isn't fair against the 450s either... So u can't use that argument...

So just make the simple change and cut the shit... Simple as that...

And the argument that 3 manufacturers don't make the 2 strokes is BULLSHIT too because that was exactly the case when the four strokes were being introduced - FACT
Sparkalounger
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4/9/2010 7:30pm
the way i see it the only reason most of us are now on 4 strokes is because of cc limits.
They gave them too much of an advantage.
Why race a 250s in the "open" class when you can race a 450f that has much more power?
Do some testing... testing that most 8th graders could figure out how to accomplish, and make comparable cc limits and we will once again have 2s lining up on the gate. end of story.
AZ35
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4/9/2010 7:58pm
Crush wrote:
I don't see why they don't just make the easiest rule change... 150 two strokes in the lites class and open 2 strokes (250 +...
I don't see why they don't just make the easiest rule change...

150 two strokes in the lites class and open 2 strokes (250 + ? u feel like) in the 450 class... which will end up being a 350 class anyways...

the 250 smoker isn't fair against the 250 thumpers... and it isn't fair against the 450s either... So u can't use that argument...

So just make the simple change and cut the shit... Simple as that...

And the argument that 3 manufacturers don't make the 2 strokes is BULLSHIT too because that was exactly the case when the four strokes were being introduced - FACT
Great point Crush, Yamaha was the ONLY one to have the vision to make the 4-stroke while the other Big 3 sat back and waited to see what would happen.

Now maybe the AMA should reward KTM's vision of the 2 stroke as a mainstay and allow them the same rule changes to let the public decide what they want to race (and ride).

Not banish one or the other, even the playing field so the public has a viable option.
lostboy819
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4/9/2010 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2010 8:19pm
DC is not the one making the rules, its the big four that really run the show.
Crush
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4/9/2010 8:53pm
lostboy819 wrote:
DC is not the one making the rules, its the big four that really run the show.
See that's where you are wrong I think... It might not be DC... BUT it is the governing bodies of our sport...

Fact is the OEMs will do what the consumers want if people vote with their wallets...

The issue is that the Governing bodies doesn't allow us to do so by restricting the classes and therefore the usability of said bikes (150 and 300 2 strokes)...

If we are allowed to race those bikes, the racers around each country will find a way to race and ride them... After all, apart from the people trying to get a national championship most people would likely more care about what is affordable to be able to stay involved in our already increasingly expensive sport...

If 2 strokes were viable class wise, I bet you'd see more out there, and more bikes in general!!!

It freaken annoys me why they can't just make this simple change and see what happens... They let four strokes in so easily, why are they so afraid of making a simple change that would actually be good for the sport?!?!?!

Who do you think is stopping it??? AND NO IT ISN'T DC
CRF107
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4/9/2010 9:52pm
I know that part of the rule change was to keep it in line with the rules for the men. And I like Whitmore, but I don't think the 250t would have put her on the podium.
czernik
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4/9/2010 10:23pm
Stoop
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4/9/2010 11:32pm
DC wrote:
Two-stroke 250s still faster than 250Fs.

DC
MX Sports
i really hate this comment, if this is your reasoning, whats your logic with Cairoli riding a 350 against 450's? i mean a 450 is faster.. no ?.
Crush
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4/9/2010 11:35pm
I take it, that Sarah riding the 250 2 stroke didn't go over well?
and a 400 fourstroke or even a 650 which was allowed at the time was faster than a 250 smoker... Like I said, who cares if it isn't a fair fight now, it wasn't when they introduced the 4 strokes, it shouldn't be the argument now...
FlaNard
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4/10/2010 3:31am
DC wrote:
Two-stroke 250s still faster than 250Fs.

DC
MX Sports
And a 250F was/is faster then a 125 and a 450 was/is faster then a 450. And guess what? The cost of the thumper is killing the sport. The local tracks have about half the riders they used to because nobody can afford the sport anymore. And each week more of the few that are left are rocking two strokes.
FlaNard
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4/10/2010 3:49am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2010 3:50am
Another thing. I lOVE how obvious it is that 90% of us get it. The only people towing the line are "industry" or fat guys worried that they would have to learn to corner again. But mostly industry. You fuckers know what you are doing. Just know that 90% of us are on to you. Once you officially kill the sport off, dont act like you werent warned by all of us on the local level. Continue to drive up the cost and there wont be motocross in 10 years.
mr_big
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4/10/2010 4:09am
Crush wrote:
I don't see why they don't just make the easiest rule change... 150 two strokes in the lites class and open 2 strokes (250 +...
I don't see why they don't just make the easiest rule change...

150 two strokes in the lites class and open 2 strokes (250 + ? u feel like) in the 450 class... which will end up being a 350 class anyways...

the 250 smoker isn't fair against the 250 thumpers... and it isn't fair against the 450s either... So u can't use that argument...

So just make the simple change and cut the shit... Simple as that...

And the argument that 3 manufacturers don't make the 2 strokes is BULLSHIT too because that was exactly the case when the four strokes were being introduced - FACT
Too easy, isnt it?


(Had to be an Aussie that makes the most sense here....)
themrtoad
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4/10/2010 4:12am
Another thing. I lOVE how obvious it is that 90% of us get it. The only people towing the line are "industry" or fat guys worried that they would have to learn to corner again. But mostly industry. You fuckers know what you are doing. Just know that 90% of us are on to you. Once you officially kill the sport off, dont act like you werent warned by all of us on the local level. Continue to drive up the cost and there wont be motocross in 10 years.

What you wrote above is very much the truth I believe.
4/10/2010 4:44am
Ok guys, DC is NOT the bad guy here. He is simply trying to create the best series he can with the way current politics are.

If he wanted, he could say to the OEMs that the classes would have equal displacement, etc. The problem with that is, if the manufacturers don't like it or it will cost them too much money, then they will just pick up and go home. Who is the winner then? Who says they have to race the Nationals? They get more than enough exposure in the World GPs and Supercross. Think they'll never pull out? Take a look at what's happening in the AMA Superbike series.

If you really want a change, vote with your wallets and go buy a 2 stroke. That's the only way it's going to change.
Crush
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4/10/2010 6:00am
And that is it... Buy a fuckin 2 stroke... Cause the fact is unless you are going for a national or amateur national championship or really just prefer a four stroke, then what does it matter...

It just shits me that we aren't being given the choice and every shit reason that wasn't good enough 10 years ago is suddenly valid now...

Nothing will make me think that a four stroke only motocross world is better for the sport... They might be better round a track, but really we haven't even seen a fair fight, so who the fuck is to say?!?!

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