OEMs, FIM, and Feld Meeting Notes?

NV825
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1/5/2020 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2020 4:53am

As a business guy, this sounds pretty interesting. Any Vital insiders with info? Are the OEMs finally realizing that they could hold quite a bit of power if they worked together against the the power hungry rule maker and promoter?
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Motofinne
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1/5/2020 2:10pm
I expect that Steve or any other journalist spills the beans regarding this.
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NV825
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1/5/2020 2:28pm
crowe176 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/01/05/396351/s1200_E833234C_130D_4802_92C8_803EEEE67FA7.jpg[/img]

"Soooooo... even though we put you through the ringer and almost ruined the rest of your career, water under the bridge, right?"
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crowe176
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1/5/2020 2:35pm
Craig: EABOD

The Shop

APLMAN99
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1/5/2020 2:40pm
So Steve claims it was “interesting” and “heated”, but no details about what was interesting or what topics were heated?

That’s the equivalent of junior high gossiping......
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1/5/2020 2:49pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
So Steve claims it was “interesting” and “heated”, but no details about what was interesting or what topics were heated? That’s the equivalent of junior high...
So Steve claims it was “interesting” and “heated”, but no details about what was interesting or what topics were heated?

That’s the equivalent of junior high gossiping......
That’s how Steve operates so no surprise there
GuyB
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1/5/2020 2:52pm
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but...

I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding Supercross globally that I believe that to be true. That means keeping the FIM World Championship title designation still matters. The "bad" part that comes along with that is that it means that they (meaning the FIM) still want/need to keep the same Olympic/World Championship level of penalties that they've been using.

I've also recently heard that MX Sports changing their drug testing program so that they still are still WADA-compliant (and overseen by USADA), but with penalties more along the lines of a two-year maximum for a major offense. It sounds like the OEMs like that change and would prefer something like that on the SX side, too.
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aeffertz
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1/5/2020 3:16pm
I asked Steve about that tweet when I saw him in the pits and he said he just needed to get more information about it before expanding on it. So hopefully he touches on it in the next show on how things got “heated”
MXMattii
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1/5/2020 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 3:33pm
GuyB wrote:
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but... I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding...
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but...

I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding Supercross globally that I believe that to be true. That means keeping the FIM World Championship title designation still matters. The "bad" part that comes along with that is that it means that they (meaning the FIM) still want/need to keep the same Olympic/World Championship level of penalties that they've been using.

I've also recently heard that MX Sports changing their drug testing program so that they still are still WADA-compliant (and overseen by USADA), but with penalties more along the lines of a two-year maximum for a major offense. It sounds like the OEMs like that change and would prefer something like that on the SX side, too.
Jorge Viegas isn't a stupid person, I see him talk to WADA, in the near future, and ask them if they can keep the WADA controlling but with FIM penalties. Because MotoGP riders, MX riders, Trail riders they are all about the same and you could punish them quite the same.

Viegas is on of the good guys. Never thought I would say this about a FIM President, but he means well and try to get things sorted.

PS: To all the people being angry towards WADA/USADA. You first need to donate glowing piss before you get in their slow bureaucratic system. Before they can screw up your career you needed to do something wrong. Maybe a little one like, not looking out enough towards your supplements you are taking or not caring enough about the paperwork to get your Therapeutic Use Exemptions sorted out. Or maybe a big one: taking them on purpose. But in the end they let Craig go so if you can defend you with solid arguments they aren't too bad to own up to their mistakes?!
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1/5/2020 3:44pm
MXMattii wrote:
Jorge Viegas isn't a stupid person, I see him talk to WADA, in the near future, and ask them if they can keep the WADA controlling...
Jorge Viegas isn't a stupid person, I see him talk to WADA, in the near future, and ask them if they can keep the WADA controlling but with FIM penalties. Because MotoGP riders, MX riders, Trail riders they are all about the same and you could punish them quite the same.

Viegas is on of the good guys. Never thought I would say this about a FIM President, but he means well and try to get things sorted.

PS: To all the people being angry towards WADA/USADA. You first need to donate glowing piss before you get in their slow bureaucratic system. Before they can screw up your career you needed to do something wrong. Maybe a little one like, not looking out enough towards your supplements you are taking or not caring enough about the paperwork to get your Therapeutic Use Exemptions sorted out. Or maybe a big one: taking them on purpose. But in the end they let Craig go so if you can defend you with solid arguments they aren't too bad to own up to their mistakes?!
You’re wrong in your point that you need to donate “glowing piss” in fact the biggest busts haven’t included positives tests at all. Look no further than lance or the garbage biological passport causing tons of issues resulting in suspensions with no proof. The system is anything but transparent and a political mess at best. Trying to act like WADA is above board on really anything is disingenuous
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MXMattii
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1/5/2020 4:15pm
You’re wrong in your point that you need to donate “glowing piss” in fact the biggest busts haven’t included positives tests at all. Look no further...
You’re wrong in your point that you need to donate “glowing piss” in fact the biggest busts haven’t included positives tests at all. Look no further than lance or the garbage biological passport causing tons of issues resulting in suspensions with no proof. The system is anything but transparent and a political mess at best. Trying to act like WADA is above board on really anything is disingenuous
Motocrossriders have no biological passport if I'm not mistaken. A biological passport is only for Olympic Sports, we've seen two busts on Amphetamines; Clason and James Stewart but both are ADHD patients and Amphetamine salts are in those medication. So they were in the wrong with their Therapeutic Use Exemptions. But if you haven't sorted this out and you are taking them, that gets looked like cheating. Because you know you took it.

The other one is Christian Craig, he got away without a lengthy ban so I'm pretty sure his explanation to WADA/FIM as clear as daylight for them, and then we've Broc Tickle who probably got screwed with wrong/cheap or contaminated supplements because that stuff that they found isn't in any medication anymore but gets used as cheap energy booster by some supplement factories. But going all in to prove it isn't easy if those supplements are (possible made) by a sponsor of you.
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NV825
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1/5/2020 4:49pm
GuyB wrote:
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but... I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding...
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but...

I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding Supercross globally that I believe that to be true. That means keeping the FIM World Championship title designation still matters. The "bad" part that comes along with that is that it means that they (meaning the FIM) still want/need to keep the same Olympic/World Championship level of penalties that they've been using.

I've also recently heard that MX Sports changing their drug testing program so that they still are still WADA-compliant (and overseen by USADA), but with penalties more along the lines of a two-year maximum for a major offense. It sounds like the OEMs like that change and would prefer something like that on the SX side, too.
Thanks GuyB for the info. Hopefully they don’t try to half ass the international rounds by making them optional like they did before and have two champions at the end of the series. Listening to Steve Astephen on the latest Pulp, the money is for sure there from countries if the big stars and OEMs will commit.
lostboy819
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1/5/2020 4:59pm
MXMattii wrote:
Motocrossriders have no biological passport if I'm not mistaken. A biological passport is only for Olympic Sports, we've seen two busts on Amphetamines; Clason and James...
Motocrossriders have no biological passport if I'm not mistaken. A biological passport is only for Olympic Sports, we've seen two busts on Amphetamines; Clason and James Stewart but both are ADHD patients and Amphetamine salts are in those medication. So they were in the wrong with their Therapeutic Use Exemptions. But if you haven't sorted this out and you are taking them, that gets looked like cheating. Because you know you took it.

The other one is Christian Craig, he got away without a lengthy ban so I'm pretty sure his explanation to WADA/FIM as clear as daylight for them, and then we've Broc Tickle who probably got screwed with wrong/cheap or contaminated supplements because that stuff that they found isn't in any medication anymore but gets used as cheap energy booster by some supplement factories. But going all in to prove it isn't easy if those supplements are (possible made) by a sponsor of you.
Broc Tickle did not get screwed by anyone except himself, he is not a victim.
He did the crime and he does the time.
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scott_nz
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1/5/2020 5:07pm
GuyB wrote:
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but... I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding...
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but...

I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding Supercross globally that I believe that to be true. That means keeping the FIM World Championship title designation still matters. The "bad" part that comes along with that is that it means that they (meaning the FIM) still want/need to keep the same Olympic/World Championship level of penalties that they've been using.

I've also recently heard that MX Sports changing their drug testing program so that they still are still WADA-compliant (and overseen by USADA), but with penalties more along the lines of a two-year maximum for a major offense. It sounds like the OEMs like that change and would prefer something like that on the SX side, too.
NV825 wrote:
Thanks GuyB for the info. Hopefully they don’t try to half ass the international rounds by making them optional like they did before and have two...
Thanks GuyB for the info. Hopefully they don’t try to half ass the international rounds by making them optional like they did before and have two champions at the end of the series. Listening to Steve Astephen on the latest Pulp, the money is for sure there from countries if the big stars and OEMs will commit.
will the OEM'c committ tho?
most of the racing budget outside KTM/Husq comes from teh US arms of the japenese brands, not from the factories,

Bike sales are not huge in the middle eastern countries, so no gain there, unless the cheque is big enough for the OEMs (let alone the riders) to take notice, then I cant see it happening,

NV825
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1/5/2020 5:17pm
GuyB wrote:
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but... I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding...
I don't have a bunch of details from inside the meeting, but...

I've heard from enough different sources that there are still long-term goals of expanding Supercross globally that I believe that to be true. That means keeping the FIM World Championship title designation still matters. The "bad" part that comes along with that is that it means that they (meaning the FIM) still want/need to keep the same Olympic/World Championship level of penalties that they've been using.

I've also recently heard that MX Sports changing their drug testing program so that they still are still WADA-compliant (and overseen by USADA), but with penalties more along the lines of a two-year maximum for a major offense. It sounds like the OEMs like that change and would prefer something like that on the SX side, too.
NV825 wrote:
Thanks GuyB for the info. Hopefully they don’t try to half ass the international rounds by making them optional like they did before and have two...
Thanks GuyB for the info. Hopefully they don’t try to half ass the international rounds by making them optional like they did before and have two champions at the end of the series. Listening to Steve Astephen on the latest Pulp, the money is for sure there from countries if the big stars and OEMs will commit.
scott_nz wrote:
will the OEM'c committ tho? most of the racing budget outside KTM/Husq comes from teh US arms of the japenese brands, not from the factories, Bike...
will the OEM'c committ tho?
most of the racing budget outside KTM/Husq comes from teh US arms of the japenese brands, not from the factories,

Bike sales are not huge in the middle eastern countries, so no gain there, unless the cheque is big enough for the OEMs (let alone the riders) to take notice, then I cant see it happening,

I could see commitment if the host countries are set to pay hefty appearance/travel fees. Privateers will be screwed most likely though unless they get setup with bikes abroad and only need to bring the essential parts.
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DC
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1/6/2020 8:02am
Jorge Viegas has been trying to clean up the process ever since he took over a little more than a year ago. All of the problems with the FIM/WADA and US Supercross riders came before he was FIM President, and he has fired pretty much everyone who was involved with the four cases involving U.S. riders that were all incredibly slow in adjudicating. I believe he is trying to get a lot of things fixed, but there's still much to sort out between testing, notifying and penalizing, and his coming here and talking to everyone and hearing their complaints and concerns was a good step forward, in my personal opinion...

DC
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endurox
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1/6/2020 8:27am
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very wide.
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-MAVERICK-
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1/6/2020 8:34am
endurox wrote:
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very...
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very wide.
Sadly, that budget would more than likely come at the expense of the factory teams no longer doing the outdoor series or scaling way back.
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1/6/2020 8:37am
endurox wrote:
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very...
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very wide.
That would make it tough. For the "fly aways" in F1 everything is loaded up and shipped over, but the teams and equipment are set. SX is more fluid, does that mean just factory teams are taken care of? What about privateers or teams like FXR Chaparral? It doesn't seem worth the risk. I could see Mexico city/Canada and then possibly a Japan one off before they expand all the way to Europe. Japan would also play into the OEM base outside of KTM
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GuyB
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1/6/2020 9:31am
NV825 wrote:
I could see commitment if the host countries are set to pay hefty appearance/travel fees. Privateers will be screwed most likely though unless they get setup...
I could see commitment if the host countries are set to pay hefty appearance/travel fees. Privateers will be screwed most likely though unless they get setup with bikes abroad and only need to bring the essential parts.
I’m going to guess that international events would be triple crown format.
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hamncheeze
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1/6/2020 11:16am
Growing the series to "fly away" events has some potentially serious repercussions for the Pro Motocross series IMO. If the number of SX races grows and they start having international fly-away rounds, it will be conceivable that the manufacturers will pull back/out of Pro MX. All it will take is one team to start the process, and we will see a significantly scaled-back effort at outdoors. Again, just my opinion here. I have to think this was a big part of the discussions at the meeting. I'd love for DC to weigh in on this subject, though I fully understand why is may not have the latitude to do so.
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1/6/2020 11:24am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2020 11:25am
endurox wrote:
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very...
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very wide.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Sadly, that budget would more than likely come at the expense of the factory teams no longer doing the outdoor series or scaling way back.
Also FIM Translation: "Privateers can go fuck themselves, Ken feld needs another yacht"
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DC
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1/6/2020 11:34am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2020 11:50am
hamncheeze wrote:
Growing the series to "fly away" events has some potentially serious repercussions for the Pro Motocross series IMO. If the number of SX races grows and...
Growing the series to "fly away" events has some potentially serious repercussions for the Pro Motocross series IMO. If the number of SX races grows and they start having international fly-away rounds, it will be conceivable that the manufacturers will pull back/out of Pro MX. All it will take is one team to start the process, and we will see a significantly scaled-back effort at outdoors. Again, just my opinion here. I have to think this was a big part of the discussions at the meeting. I'd love for DC to weigh in on this subject, though I fully understand why is may not have the latitude to do so.
There was no discussion of "fly away" races in the Friday evening meeting, it was entirely about FIM/WADA problems and hopeful fixes.

From the FIM Press Release:

"The meeting was held at the Angel Stadium, Anaheim California on Friday, in the presence of representatives of Feld Entertainment and the American Motorcycling Association (AMA). It was an important opportunity for all to discuss the concerns of the teams regarding the FIM Anti-doping Program particularly in relation to aspects of the results management process. The teams stated their support for the Anti-Doping Program but highlighted the need to improve timeliness, transparency and communication during the results management process.

"The FIM President acknowledged their concerns and outlined the changes already made by the FIM to improve the results management process as well as agreeing to further actions as an outcome of the meeting."

DC
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ratonmacias
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1/6/2020 12:07pm
endurox wrote:
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very...
Travel expenses like in F1 would require a huge budget. Would be tough with the small market. FELD would need to open up their wallet very wide.
That would make it tough. For the "fly aways" in F1 everything is loaded up and shipped over, but the teams and equipment are set. SX...
That would make it tough. For the "fly aways" in F1 everything is loaded up and shipped over, but the teams and equipment are set. SX is more fluid, does that mean just factory teams are taken care of? What about privateers or teams like FXR Chaparral? It doesn't seem worth the risk. I could see Mexico city/Canada and then possibly a Japan one off before they expand all the way to Europe. Japan would also play into the OEM base outside of KTM
if you think Lakewood is a pain the ass wait until you get to Mexico CIty its elevation is 2,250 meters or 7,382 feet.
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1/6/2020 12:09pm
if you think Lakewood is a pain the ass wait until you get to Mexico CIty its elevation is 2,250 meters or 7,382 feet.
Shouldn't be a pain in the ass at all. We aren't talking jetting and carbs any longer
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MXMattii
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1/6/2020 3:15pm
DC wrote:
Jorge Viegas has been trying to clean up the process ever since he took over a little more than a year ago. All of the problems...
Jorge Viegas has been trying to clean up the process ever since he took over a little more than a year ago. All of the problems with the FIM/WADA and US Supercross riders came before he was FIM President, and he has fired pretty much everyone who was involved with the four cases involving U.S. riders that were all incredibly slow in adjudicating. I believe he is trying to get a lot of things fixed, but there's still much to sort out between testing, notifying and penalizing, and his coming here and talking to everyone and hearing their complaints and concerns was a good step forward, in my personal opinion...

DC
Racer X

Thanks for the inside info. Jorge Viegas really has the best in mind for our sport. MX Action Group did us a favor with those unveilings about Dr. Srb. This resulting in his withdraw from the election. Can you imagine Wolfgang as FIM President?

On the other hand about the fly away races: If Feld can make it happen that there are cities wanting to pay big money to get the best supercross racers of the world to their country then I would say: Congrats!! This glow will also shine a tiny bit on motocross on both sides of the pond. About the privateers, riders such as Breece, Bowers, ... those are smart enough to find a solution if they wanna go. Now those riders are racing the German SX series for a German sponsor. It isn't unimaginable that we could see Breece ride on a bike supported by the Qatari federation (like KRT Kawasaki a few years back) or maybe a company from the local sultan/prince/...
Mr. Info
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1/6/2020 4:22pm
The US Factory teams have always stated their market was the US and with US sponsors they would lose invest dollars to people overseas who don't by their product. Why should Fly pay a rider to race overseas and no recoup on sales since the overseas distributor would get that money without paying the sponsor fee support dollars and that's just a small example.
Where does the race team budget come from? The US or Europe? It ain't as easy a move to make as people think.
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MXMattii
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1/6/2020 4:39pm
Mr. Info wrote:
The US Factory teams have always stated their market was the US and with US sponsors they would lose invest dollars to people overseas who don't...
The US Factory teams have always stated their market was the US and with US sponsors they would lose invest dollars to people overseas who don't by their product. Why should Fly pay a rider to race overseas and no recoup on sales since the overseas distributor would get that money without paying the sponsor fee support dollars and that's just a small example.
Where does the race team budget come from? The US or Europe? It ain't as easy a move to make as people think.
We all have the internet that is creating one global market, If brands doesn't start looking at the world as one global market any time soon they are doomed. Clothing brands can reach a new public at the Arabic countries. Is their something like Parts Arabic? Like we've Parts Unlimited and Parts Europe? Don't think so... I guess it can get a little awkward if there are European rounds but even then brands should: adapt and overcome those problems to grow.

Why is KTM doing so good? They don't look at racing in ways as: USA/Europe/Asia everything comes from Austria. Instead of the Japanese manufacturers they build bikes in Japan (sometimes keeping the feedback from USA/Europe/Japan in mind, sometimes not) but when the motorcycles are build the US teams are mostly on their own if they wanna fix problems, same with European teams and if they get help from Japan it is a slow process that makes that you are behind on KTM/Husqvarna who is always up-to-date and very close with their teams all over the world.
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GuyB
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1/6/2020 4:42pm
Mr. Info wrote:
The US Factory teams have always stated their market was the US and with US sponsors they would lose invest dollars to people overseas who don't...
The US Factory teams have always stated their market was the US and with US sponsors they would lose invest dollars to people overseas who don't by their product. Why should Fly pay a rider to race overseas and no recoup on sales since the overseas distributor would get that money without paying the sponsor fee support dollars and that's just a small example.
Where does the race team budget come from? The US or Europe? It ain't as easy a move to make as people think.
Well, with the Japanese brands, I doubt it comes from Europe. Wink
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hamncheeze
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1/6/2020 4:48pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Growing the series to "fly away" events has some potentially serious repercussions for the Pro Motocross series IMO. If the number of SX races grows and...
Growing the series to "fly away" events has some potentially serious repercussions for the Pro Motocross series IMO. If the number of SX races grows and they start having international fly-away rounds, it will be conceivable that the manufacturers will pull back/out of Pro MX. All it will take is one team to start the process, and we will see a significantly scaled-back effort at outdoors. Again, just my opinion here. I have to think this was a big part of the discussions at the meeting. I'd love for DC to weigh in on this subject, though I fully understand why is may not have the latitude to do so.
DC wrote:
There was no discussion of "fly away" races in the Friday evening meeting, it was entirely about FIM/WADA problems and hopeful fixes. From the FIM Press...
There was no discussion of "fly away" races in the Friday evening meeting, it was entirely about FIM/WADA problems and hopeful fixes.

From the FIM Press Release:

"The meeting was held at the Angel Stadium, Anaheim California on Friday, in the presence of representatives of Feld Entertainment and the American Motorcycling Association (AMA). It was an important opportunity for all to discuss the concerns of the teams regarding the FIM Anti-doping Program particularly in relation to aspects of the results management process. The teams stated their support for the Anti-Doping Program but highlighted the need to improve timeliness, transparency and communication during the results management process.

"The FIM President acknowledged their concerns and outlined the changes already made by the FIM to improve the results management process as well as agreeing to further actions as an outcome of the meeting."

DC
Racer X
Thanks for giving us outsiders some facts DC. I along with most other posters on here are really good at speculation Laughing

I sincerely hope some progress is made on the anti-doping front for motorsport. I'm a bicycle racer in my second life, but in no way should a MotoGP or SX rider be treated the same way a as a professional cyclist in terms of suspensions. And in terms of timeliness, that seems to be 100% on the FIM to improve the game. Other federations like the UCI (cycling), IAAF (athletics), FIFA (soccer), etc do not have stories like Broc Tickle and Christian Craig.
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