No budds on 2019 sch? Moving to englishishtown nj

drt410
Posts
2075
Joined
3/18/2017
Location
Boston, MA US
6/7/2018 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 12:23pm
Why cant broome tioga come back? That was the best track on the circuit... Right now other than southwick and Glen helen all the tracks are too similar. We need way more diversity. Southwick needs to go back to the old days where they ran and NESC race the weekend before and didnt groom it before the national came. Budds Creek has to be one of the best tracks in the world though wtf is this? They could add WW in FL too that was an amazing track. Theres plenty of options out there but I think they need to get back to more diverse tracks. Dilla is pretty unique too, so Glen Helen, Unadilla, Southwick, Broom Tioga is a boss line up right there. Then WW, Budds, Elsinore was pretty cool too I thought.

DC
Posts
3891
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
6/7/2018 12:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 12:38pm
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean, sport killing decisions and costly mistakes are just made, over and over……
- Miller Motorsports Park – Once and Done
- Glen Helen, off, on, etc.
- Pala …………
- They cut Southwick, realized their mistake, and it’s back.
- Timed practice, which makes tracks one-lined.
- Continuing with seriously outdated “Double- Displacement” advantages for 4-strokes

I don't think anyone will cut or delete you for having your own opinion, but you might want to check your "sport killing decisions and costly mistakes" accusations. Let me briefly explain...

- Miller Motorsports Park was actually three and done (after Mr. Miller passed away, the facility was sold).
- Glen Helen was off, now on... No etc. Bud Feldkamp canceled his race in 2010 because he didn't agree with the contract terms, so we had no choice but to go elsewhere. Thanks to the late (and wonderful) Tom White, we resolved our major issues and got back together. In the meantime...
- We wanted to stay in Southern California, so we tried Pala for two years, and then they changed promoters, and we decided to move to Lake Elsinore, which was just too damn hot at that time of the year. Then Glen Helen wanted to come back and we worked out our differences, and now we're back.
- The Legion at Southwick cut the longtime race promoters (Ralph & Dianne) and there was no one to run the facility. Mike Grondahl eventually took over the lease, got with Keith Johnson and literally saved the track. Now we're back.
- Agreed with you on timed practice, but we lack the time in the day to do it differently, and almost all of the riders and teams prefer timed qualifying, not heat races. And I feel that we've learned how to make the tracks better and they seem to have a lot of lines now.
- Agreed that double-displacement was a mistake, in hindsight, and I have said as much. But in order to change it, we would also need to have the FIM change their rules, as well as AMA Supercross. We tried awhile back, it didn't get far. Maybe it's time to move on?

Or maybe you're right, it's really time to seek a series management change. Then maybe I could get a full-time job working at Budds Creek instead of just late summers....

DC
Racer X
NJKawi913
Posts
265
Joined
6/5/2017
Location
Somerset, NJ US
6/7/2018 12:32pm
I know the owners of the whole facility, and the track manager pretty well. They are sinking a lot of money and time into this track, and they would not be if they did not plan to hold high caliber event here. In a few shorty month they have moved a lot of dirt, added some irrigation and sprinklers, cleared woodland, moved the entrire timing tower, and started moving the drag strip grandstands.

They have a lot still left before the track would be ready for a national, but i fully believe that in a year or two they will be more than capable.
GregDVT
Posts
703
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Phoenix, MD US
6/7/2018 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2018 1:12pm
Hopefully Brappamania this weekend will bring them a good chunk of revenue

The Shop

PN27416
Posts
1018
Joined
6/12/2008
Location
Coopersburg, PA US
6/7/2018 2:24pm
DC wrote:
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean...
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean, sport killing decisions and costly mistakes are just made, over and over……
- Miller Motorsports Park – Once and Done
- Glen Helen, off, on, etc.
- Pala …………
- They cut Southwick, realized their mistake, and it’s back.
- Timed practice, which makes tracks one-lined.
- Continuing with seriously outdated “Double- Displacement” advantages for 4-strokes

I don't think anyone will cut or delete you for having your own opinion, but you might want to check your "sport killing decisions and costly mistakes" accusations. Let me briefly explain...

- Miller Motorsports Park was actually three and done (after Mr. Miller passed away, the facility was sold).
- Glen Helen was off, now on... No etc. Bud Feldkamp canceled his race in 2010 because he didn't agree with the contract terms, so we had no choice but to go elsewhere. Thanks to the late (and wonderful) Tom White, we resolved our major issues and got back together. In the meantime...
- We wanted to stay in Southern California, so we tried Pala for two years, and then they changed promoters, and we decided to move to Lake Elsinore, which was just too damn hot at that time of the year. Then Glen Helen wanted to come back and we worked out our differences, and now we're back.
- The Legion at Southwick cut the longtime race promoters (Ralph & Dianne) and there was no one to run the facility. Mike Grondahl eventually took over the lease, got with Keith Johnson and literally saved the track. Now we're back.
- Agreed with you on timed practice, but we lack the time in the day to do it differently, and almost all of the riders and teams prefer timed qualifying, not heat races. And I feel that we've learned how to make the tracks better and they seem to have a lot of lines now.
- Agreed that double-displacement was a mistake, in hindsight, and I have said as much. But in order to change it, we would also need to have the FIM change their rules, as well as AMA Supercross. We tried awhile back, it didn't get far. Maybe it's time to move on?

Or maybe you're right, it's really time to seek a series management change. Then maybe I could get a full-time job working at Budds Creek instead of just late summers....

DC
Racer X
THANK YOU Davey!
jtiger12
Posts
1720
Joined
8/2/2006
Location
Forest H Ill, MD US
6/7/2018 3:31pm
Etown will sink a ton of money into this track, and take budds national. Not one chance in hell I'm going, and I'm sure most of the people in the dc, md, va, and nc area aren't going to drive that far to watch a national in a flat field. maybe everyone came to the table to try and seriously resolve these issues like interested business partners, maybe not.
JustMX
Posts
4567
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
6/7/2018 5:09pm
DC wrote:
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean...
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean, sport killing decisions and costly mistakes are just made, over and over……
- Miller Motorsports Park – Once and Done
- Glen Helen, off, on, etc.
- Pala …………
- They cut Southwick, realized their mistake, and it’s back.
- Timed practice, which makes tracks one-lined.
- Continuing with seriously outdated “Double- Displacement” advantages for 4-strokes

I don't think anyone will cut or delete you for having your own opinion, but you might want to check your "sport killing decisions and costly mistakes" accusations. Let me briefly explain...

- Miller Motorsports Park was actually three and done (after Mr. Miller passed away, the facility was sold).
- Glen Helen was off, now on... No etc. Bud Feldkamp canceled his race in 2010 because he didn't agree with the contract terms, so we had no choice but to go elsewhere. Thanks to the late (and wonderful) Tom White, we resolved our major issues and got back together. In the meantime...
- We wanted to stay in Southern California, so we tried Pala for two years, and then they changed promoters, and we decided to move to Lake Elsinore, which was just too damn hot at that time of the year. Then Glen Helen wanted to come back and we worked out our differences, and now we're back.
- The Legion at Southwick cut the longtime race promoters (Ralph & Dianne) and there was no one to run the facility. Mike Grondahl eventually took over the lease, got with Keith Johnson and literally saved the track. Now we're back.
- Agreed with you on timed practice, but we lack the time in the day to do it differently, and almost all of the riders and teams prefer timed qualifying, not heat races. And I feel that we've learned how to make the tracks better and they seem to have a lot of lines now.
- Agreed that double-displacement was a mistake, in hindsight, and I have said as much. But in order to change it, we would also need to have the FIM change their rules, as well as AMA Supercross. We tried awhile back, it didn't get far. Maybe it's time to move on?

Or maybe you're right, it's really time to seek a series management change. Then maybe I could get a full-time job working at Budds Creek instead of just late summers....

DC
Racer X
Just curious, Why would the fim need to change their rules for mx sports to bring back displacement equality to the ama nationals?

Refresh my memory, wasn't the ama out front of them on the 4 stroke displacement advantage?

Why cant the ama (mx sports) lead the way on equality?
motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
WV US
6/7/2018 6:06pm
DC wrote:
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean...
At risk of being “cut” or “deleted”, we have to ask if maybe it’s time for the AMA to seek a series management change? I mean, sport killing decisions and costly mistakes are just made, over and over……
- Miller Motorsports Park – Once and Done
- Glen Helen, off, on, etc.
- Pala …………
- They cut Southwick, realized their mistake, and it’s back.
- Timed practice, which makes tracks one-lined.
- Continuing with seriously outdated “Double- Displacement” advantages for 4-strokes

I don't think anyone will cut or delete you for having your own opinion, but you might want to check your "sport killing decisions and costly mistakes" accusations. Let me briefly explain...

- Miller Motorsports Park was actually three and done (after Mr. Miller passed away, the facility was sold).
- Glen Helen was off, now on... No etc. Bud Feldkamp canceled his race in 2010 because he didn't agree with the contract terms, so we had no choice but to go elsewhere. Thanks to the late (and wonderful) Tom White, we resolved our major issues and got back together. In the meantime...
- We wanted to stay in Southern California, so we tried Pala for two years, and then they changed promoters, and we decided to move to Lake Elsinore, which was just too damn hot at that time of the year. Then Glen Helen wanted to come back and we worked out our differences, and now we're back.
- The Legion at Southwick cut the longtime race promoters (Ralph & Dianne) and there was no one to run the facility. Mike Grondahl eventually took over the lease, got with Keith Johnson and literally saved the track. Now we're back.
- Agreed with you on timed practice, but we lack the time in the day to do it differently, and almost all of the riders and teams prefer timed qualifying, not heat races. And I feel that we've learned how to make the tracks better and they seem to have a lot of lines now.
- Agreed that double-displacement was a mistake, in hindsight, and I have said as much. But in order to change it, we would also need to have the FIM change their rules, as well as AMA Supercross. We tried awhile back, it didn't get far. Maybe it's time to move on?

Or maybe you're right, it's really time to seek a series management change. Then maybe I could get a full-time job working at Budds Creek instead of just late summers....

DC
Racer X

U mad bro?
DC
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3891
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV US
6/7/2018 8:29pm
JustMX, in 1996 the AMA was the only sanctioning body for supercross. Since 2002 or so, they have two. That complicates the rule-changing process when the same teams and riders participate in both SX and MX and expect similar rules.

DC
Racer X
mikec265
Posts
1669
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10/19/2015
Location
Edinboro, PA US
6/7/2018 11:56pm
DC wrote:
JustMX, in 1996 the AMA was the only sanctioning body for supercross. Since 2002 or so, they have two. That complicates the rule-changing process when the...
JustMX, in 1996 the AMA was the only sanctioning body for supercross. Since 2002 or so, they have two. That complicates the rule-changing process when the same teams and riders participate in both SX and MX and expect similar rules.

DC
Racer X
Would it make sense to change the rules in one and see how it works? Idk how possible that would be but isn't it hard for a no name to come out swinging in the 250 class when they can't afford a powerful monster of a motor? Not to mention the cost of keeping it going after the initial build.
Mr. Info
Posts
1672
Joined
5/3/2010
Location
Perris, CA US
6/8/2018 8:31am
Guys it’s easy to talk about what both sides should do. But you have to have been part of both sides to know what problems come up and how they are resolved. Some times it’s very hard because each party is a repressive of their business.
Not one track owner or MX Sports can sustain breaking even or losing money. It is done for the fans of the sport and each parties love of the sport but they have bills to pays and mouths to feed.
I understand better today than I did a few years ago and I can say I still love the sport but for me the business side would have me walk away cause of the pressure that both sides deal with. I respect all parties involved much more today for what they do.
Some times changes need to be made so all parties can remain intact. Believe me you would not want being on one side or the other if you take things in to deep because it will sour you quick.
Remember the Track owners and MX Sports still do it for the love but the business side is just that business.
mx510
Posts
1973
Joined
2/26/2011
Location
Gig Harbor, WA US
Fantasy
1861st
6/8/2018 10:50am
When everyone but a very small fragment of the rider/racer population thinks that the displacement rule is awful we shouldn’t just move on. That is a quitters mentality, if it’s not right, it’s not right and should be fixed. This many voices can’t be wrong.
1
sesker15
Posts
1059
Joined
4/14/2008
Location
Upper Marlboro, MD US
6/8/2018 12:05pm
GregDVT wrote:
Hopefully Brappamania this weekend will bring them a good chunk of revenue
Damn RAIN!!!
lapper
Posts
134
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Huntingtown, MD US
6/8/2018 1:45pm
A little history lesson...
When DMG won the rights to be the promoter for all AMA PRO racing, the two crown jewels where Road Racing and MX. MX Sports (DC) got the rights to the MX Nationals as basically a sub-contractor under DMG. The Road Racing side was kept by DMG and run by a guy named Roger Edmondson. Roger had his own Road Racing series in the past and had big ideals on how we was going to fix the series. He wasn't going to "kowtow" to any of the OEM corporate heads. He implemented numerous changes and ignored the OEM's input. DC, on the other hand realized that he had to strike a balance with all parties involved and the OEM's are essential to our sport. Radical changes would be a slow and negotiated process. So what happened...
The major OEM's pulled out of DMG/AMA PRO Racing and the series was dead within a few (3 I think) years while AMA PRO MX is still going strong.
It's easy to say "Screw the OEM's...we want 2-strokes" The reality is none of the OEM's still make a open class (450) MX bike to compete in that class. They all used to, but they were evil nasty things that were to much for any sane rider. The public quit buying them, and the OEM's aren't bringing them back. The 450 class will remain 4-stokes.
The 250 class is a little different with Yamaha, KTM and Husky still offering 250 2-strokes. So what would happen if we leveled the displacement rules for the 250 class? If they started dominating the 4-stokes, Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki would have to make a choice. Build a new 250 2 stroke MX bike (3-5 years and $M's of development costs) or just say F#$% it...we can't compete with our current product and we're out. Say goodby to Pro Circuit, Geico Honda and the JGR 250 team. Roger Edmondson took that chance and things didn't turn out to well for the sport of Road Racing. Do you want to take the same chance with MX?
It's easy to sit back and tell DC he should fight the good fight for 2 strokes. I'd say pick your battles and keep fighting the smart fight.

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