No Need to Replace 450's

PaleBlue
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PaleBlue
Edited Date/Time 1/22/2012 2:38pm
There is no need to replace the 450's with 350's. If someone actually forced the 450 bikes to be silenced to a genuinely acceptable level, the power would be reduced to that of the 350's or less!

The added bonuses would be that
a. the 450 would be much less stressed and more reliable!
and b. at this lower level the quieter 2t's 250's would be competitive as well !!!

Any chance of it happening? I expect not...............
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user760a
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user760a 12/3/2009 6:36am
12/3/2009 6:36am
You are totally missing the point of the 350. The 350, in my mind, should be like a blazing fast 250, with 250 weight and 250 handling....not a slow 450

a slow , bottled up 450 is my worst nightmare: cranky handling, lots of crankshaft inertia making the bike feel top heavy and on top of that sleepy enduro bike power? I am all for quiet bikes but that is a no go.

huck
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huck 12/3/2009 6:46am
12/3/2009 6:46am
What the hell is a "2T"?

BornA'Lil2Slow 12/3/2009 7:00am
12/3/2009 7:00am
i say the same thing huck every time i see 2T... its a fucking 2S two STROKE.

450, 350... cranky handling? Apparently you havent rode a modern 450 made in the last 3 years user760a. 02, yeah, 05 and up, no. Too much power? no, more forgiving, yes. Too loud, yes. 94db you lose 1hp vs 99db, goto Yoshimuras website and look at the power and torque curves so there is no reason to not quiet them down and it DOESNT stuff them up where 99% of the riders would notice. 450's are hard on the track...... yeah because tracks NEVER got chewed up back in the day, all those videos we watch of old races are on MX tracks that are super smooth, and SX tracks didnt get chewed up either... end sarcasm on that last statement.

350, here is EXCATLY what will happen. Instead of the power everywhere 450 motors we have now, you will see everyone tuning them to get peak power that will have to be more focused, and what happens boys and girls when you do that? You get the trait you see in 250f's right now, a reliablility issue at the pro level which filters down to the rest oof us because we buy up hopups left and right, very few of us, even though we cant even use all a stock motor has, buy motor hopups, so we get the same issue.

KTM can crank out 350f's until they are blue in the face, they have put out different motor sizes for years..... you think Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawi, are going to stop 450's just because KTM does one? Dream on.
Adam43
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Adam43 12/3/2009 7:15am
12/3/2009 7:15am
Agree totally. While four-strokes as a whole have not been good for this sport at all, the 450s have all proven to be a fairly reliable and strong running bike long-term. I can never really understand where all these "too fast" claims come from. Like you said, people will just starting trying to pump up the 350s.

If you want to get rid of 4 strokes altogether that's one thing, but getting rid of 450s for 350s is just dumb, dumb, dumb.

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Poker_Player 12/3/2009 9:05am
12/3/2009 9:05am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2009 9:07am
huck wrote:
What the hell is a "2T"?

What I was told:

"t", has its roots from the German word "takt", which also means cycle or stroke in English.

Oh ya, I agree w/user760. Why would you want a slow heavy machine under you?
Poker_Player 12/3/2009 9:08am
12/3/2009 9:08am
BornA'Lil2Slow wrote:
i say the same thing huck every time i see 2T... its a fucking 2S two STROKE. 450, 350... cranky handling? Apparently you havent rode a...
i say the same thing huck every time i see 2T... its a fucking 2S two STROKE.

450, 350... cranky handling? Apparently you havent rode a modern 450 made in the last 3 years user760a. 02, yeah, 05 and up, no. Too much power? no, more forgiving, yes. Too loud, yes. 94db you lose 1hp vs 99db, goto Yoshimuras website and look at the power and torque curves so there is no reason to not quiet them down and it DOESNT stuff them up where 99% of the riders would notice. 450's are hard on the track...... yeah because tracks NEVER got chewed up back in the day, all those videos we watch of old races are on MX tracks that are super smooth, and SX tracks didnt get chewed up either... end sarcasm on that last statement.

350, here is EXCATLY what will happen. Instead of the power everywhere 450 motors we have now, you will see everyone tuning them to get peak power that will have to be more focused, and what happens boys and girls when you do that? You get the trait you see in 250f's right now, a reliablility issue at the pro level which filters down to the rest oof us because we buy up hopups left and right, very few of us, even though we cant even use all a stock motor has, buy motor hopups, so we get the same issue.

KTM can crank out 350f's until they are blue in the face, they have put out different motor sizes for years..... you think Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawi, are going to stop 450's just because KTM does one? Dream on.
1hp per 5db. I doubt it. Just because they put it on their website doesn't mean it is so.
J.Saunders144 12/3/2009 9:12am
12/3/2009 9:12am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2009 9:14am
If the 350 is lighter, has power in between the 250 and 450, and is somewhat reliable, ill have one for next season, i don't if it takes 3 jobs. I love my 450 but that thing can be a tank sometimes! I feel a lot more comfortable on a 250f due to the fact when you dump the clutch in a corner you don't have to buckle your seat belt and can be 10x more aggressive. I've wanted to drop a 350 in my bike for so long.
user760a
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user760a 12/3/2009 9:23am
12/3/2009 9:23am
I have ridden pretty much every newer 450 and I have an 07 Kawasaki. I have ridden the fuel injected 09's aside from the suzuki. I will admit that the two years I spent fighting the aweful 06 YZ450F may have influenced the "cranky handling" comment ...my kawasaki is much better. I am of the opinion that the bikes with less crank mass are way more fun to ride- it is a huge factor in handling.

And nobody is saying they should scrap 450's, all I am saying is I cannot wait to scrap mine
neverwas
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neverwas 12/3/2009 9:51am
12/3/2009 9:51am
user760a wrote:
I have ridden pretty much every newer 450 and I have an 07 Kawasaki. I have ridden the fuel injected 09's aside from the suzuki. I...
I have ridden pretty much every newer 450 and I have an 07 Kawasaki. I have ridden the fuel injected 09's aside from the suzuki. I will admit that the two years I spent fighting the aweful 06 YZ450F may have influenced the "cranky handling" comment ...my kawasaki is much better. I am of the opinion that the bikes with less crank mass are way more fun to ride- it is a huge factor in handling.

And nobody is saying they should scrap 450's, all I am saying is I cannot wait to scrap mine
How much difference in crank mass between a 350 and 450?
bvm111
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bvm111 12/3/2009 10:23am
12/3/2009 10:23am
huck wrote:
What the hell is a "2T"?

Poker_Player wrote:
What I was told: "t", has its roots from the German word "takt", which also means cycle or stroke in English. Oh ya, I agree w/user760...
What I was told:

"t", has its roots from the German word "takt", which also means cycle or stroke in English.

Oh ya, I agree w/user760. Why would you want a slow heavy machine under you?
ok well that is just wonderful..... my only question to you is.... what language are you communicating in, English or German? Who walks around talking about 2 takts... they dont because this is english so for the love of god please stop all this friggin 2T crap!

ITS A TWO STROKE!!!!!
Poker_Player 12/3/2009 11:04am
12/3/2009 11:04am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2009 11:05am
huck wrote:
What the hell is a "2T"?

Poker_Player wrote:
What I was told: "t", has its roots from the German word "takt", which also means cycle or stroke in English. Oh ya, I agree w/user760...
What I was told:

"t", has its roots from the German word "takt", which also means cycle or stroke in English.

Oh ya, I agree w/user760. Why would you want a slow heavy machine under you?
bvm111 wrote:
ok well that is just wonderful..... my only question to you is.... what language are you communicating in, English or German? Who walks around talking about...
ok well that is just wonderful..... my only question to you is.... what language are you communicating in, English or German? Who walks around talking about 2 takts... they dont because this is english so for the love of god please stop all this friggin 2T crap!

ITS A TWO STROKE!!!!!
Why does it bother you so much? I am just telling you where I was told the 2T abbr. came from. Stroke is to long so it gets abbreviated. Why not call it a 2C for 2 cycle. Do you get pissed when someone says V-8 instead of engine with eight cylinders in a V shape? Do you ride a 4T or 2T? I prefer a 450 4T over the 250 2T altho the 500 2T, well ya know.
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 12/3/2009 11:25am
12/3/2009 11:25am
There was no NEED to replace the 250 two stroke either but this sport isn't really about what we NEED is it?
Tiki
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Tiki 12/3/2009 11:31am
12/3/2009 11:31am
Last good ride out on my 450 I hit the rev limiter in 4th. I am pretty happy with my 450.
-eagle-
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-eagle- 12/3/2009 11:36am
12/3/2009 11:36am
You think mike will stay on it all summer?
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 12/3/2009 11:38am
12/3/2009 11:38am
-eagle- wrote:
You think mike will stay on it all summer?
For KTM to save face he will have too. I think he will do just fine on it. If he can't compete though they will probably stick him on the 450 with 350 sickers or something.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 12/3/2009 11:49am
12/3/2009 11:49am
user760a wrote:
You are totally missing the point of the 350. The 350, in my mind, should be like a blazing fast 250, with 250 weight and 250...
You are totally missing the point of the 350. The 350, in my mind, should be like a blazing fast 250, with 250 weight and 250 handling....not a slow 450

a slow , bottled up 450 is my worst nightmare: cranky handling, lots of crankshaft inertia making the bike feel top heavy and on top of that sleepy enduro bike power? I am all for quiet bikes but that is a no go.

Exactly.....and watch when it happens we will have a 30 plus pager about how crappy they are......go ahead and muffle a 450 down on power and what you have left is an enduro bike....riders will go back to two strokes if this happens....anyine ever ridden an enduro bike like say an XR400 or 650? Can you imagine racing on one of those?
dcg141
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dcg141 12/3/2009 6:47pm
12/3/2009 6:47pm
I have a deposit on a bike I can't even order yet. Talked to another dealer today that stopped deposits at 3 because he is not sure how many he can get. Must have gotten 20 calls the past 2 weeks about the 350's. So far I love the bike.
dunn2500
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dunn2500 12/3/2009 10:47pm
12/3/2009 10:47pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2009 11:02pm
BornA'Lil2Slow wrote:
i say the same thing huck every time i see 2T... its a fucking 2S two STROKE. 450, 350... cranky handling? Apparently you havent rode a...
i say the same thing huck every time i see 2T... its a fucking 2S two STROKE.

450, 350... cranky handling? Apparently you havent rode a modern 450 made in the last 3 years user760a. 02, yeah, 05 and up, no. Too much power? no, more forgiving, yes. Too loud, yes. 94db you lose 1hp vs 99db, goto Yoshimuras website and look at the power and torque curves so there is no reason to not quiet them down and it DOESNT stuff them up where 99% of the riders would notice. 450's are hard on the track...... yeah because tracks NEVER got chewed up back in the day, all those videos we watch of old races are on MX tracks that are super smooth, and SX tracks didnt get chewed up either... end sarcasm on that last statement.

350, here is EXCATLY what will happen. Instead of the power everywhere 450 motors we have now, you will see everyone tuning them to get peak power that will have to be more focused, and what happens boys and girls when you do that? You get the trait you see in 250f's right now, a reliablility issue at the pro level which filters down to the rest oof us because we buy up hopups left and right, very few of us, even though we cant even use all a stock motor has, buy motor hopups, so we get the same issue.

KTM can crank out 350f's until they are blue in the face, they have put out different motor sizes for years..... you think Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawi, are going to stop 450's just because KTM does one? Dream on.
they will when they take a huge hit on their 450 sales!.......when you can ride one to its potential then you can talk smack......the bike rides you, you cant turn it, leave it in one gear, and use the power to make up for all your mistake.....that is not motocross.....hell even the pros say they have too much power.......and the guy said that tracks werent rough and all that never been to a 500cc gp, they put 450's to shame

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crf250pilot
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crf250pilot 12/3/2009 11:59pm
12/3/2009 11:59pm
huck wrote:
What the hell is a "2T"?

thats what you got in the front of your mouth, unless your from Arkansas
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 12/4/2009 12:40am
12/4/2009 12:40am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:16pm
For 3 or 4 years the FIM have wanted to effectively ban 450's by making the MX1 class 350cc. Now KTM have produced one, the Japanese can no longer say "we can't do it". So maybe it will happen soon. Sad

I would rather have a quieter, less powerfull and more reliable 450 than a full power 450 with nowhere to ride it.

As for the 2T 4T thing, thats what it says on the bottles of oil I buy for them - I can live with it. Some of you need to get excited about things that matter - christ americans can't even hold their knives and forks correctly, doesn't bother me Wink

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