New yz’s in 22?

DB505
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Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 8:53am
Will yamaha bring out a new YZ for 22?
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Joe512
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5/7/2021 9:56am
I'd just like to find a 21. Closest one is 150 miles away
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PJRAUS
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5/7/2021 10:36am
Joe512 wrote:
I'd just like to find a 21. Closest one is 150 miles away
Ive been considering buying a new yz 125 and I asked my dealer if Yamah Australia had any left ,he said no.
But he said there would be some available in June..This was very surprising to me, as far as I have ever known , Yamaha makes each of its mx models in one go. That is to say...they set up the assembly line for the yz 125 and make the entire year's production run in one go...then they move on to another model. In fact I remember reading a magazine article once about the 2000 model yz 250, where they were talking about how they are built, with photos from the production line etc. In that article , they said that was how things were done..that they never do a second production run.

My dealer said uts nit that way now...he visited a Yamah assembly plant in Japan ( pre covid ) and watched as they shifted from one model to another....small batches apparently.
It would seem as though they have altered their way of doing things since the big downturn in bike sales going back a few years now...and seemingly make enough bikes to meet distributor requirements throughout the year...
So it seems that they make yz's in batches throughout a given model year now...
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The Shop

Lloydcarter
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5/7/2021 11:20am
I’m hoping they at least get away from the ugly black star racing look and just make it blue again
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skeef
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5/7/2021 11:22am
I’m hoping they at least get away from the ugly black star racing look and just make it blue again
It is blue. It's always been blue. You don't have to buy the monster edition.
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Brad460
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5/7/2021 11:42am
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

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AH387
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5/7/2021 11:54am Edited Date/Time 5/7/2021 11:55am
The cycle would suggest a new 450 this year (22) and the 250f go 1 more year with BNG in 22 (since 21 was a very heavy refresh year.) and follow the 450 with it's changes in 23. But given Covid and everything I wouldn't be shocked if both the 22s are BNG and maybe both 450 and 250 are all new in '23?
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DB505
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5/7/2021 1:54pm
Rupert X wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/05/07/491621/s1200_1BCB26A7_BB8A_48AA_8C60_5BD68EFF3AE4.jpg[/img]

Lol.
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sandhills
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5/7/2021 2:52pm
Brad460 wrote:
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design... New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting...
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

Yamaha's an old fashioned company that actually does stuff themselves, they make their own molds and tooling and Japan never shut down for covid. They're not gonna hold back new unit production to satisfy a rush on maintenance part orders.

The Renesas chip factory fire in Japan would be the main potential supply problem right now, if that's where they're getting ECUs.
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Falcon
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5/7/2021 3:07pm
Brad460 wrote:
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design... New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting...
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

sandhills wrote:
Yamaha's an old fashioned company that actually does stuff themselves, they make their own molds and tooling and Japan never shut down for covid. They're not...
Yamaha's an old fashioned company that actually does stuff themselves, they make their own molds and tooling and Japan never shut down for covid. They're not gonna hold back new unit production to satisfy a rush on maintenance part orders.

The Renesas chip factory fire in Japan would be the main potential supply problem right now, if that's where they're getting ECUs.
They absolutely WILL hold back new unit production if they cannot get spark plugs, ECUs, tires, radiators, rims, spokes, shocks, forks, plastic, etc., none of which is manufactured in-house.

You can bet this pandemic slowdown has made everyone re-think their new model release plans. Maybe the plans have remained the same, but they have definitely been re-thought. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that "new" models are pushed a season or two. The release engineers like to see their new models sell well in the first year, not get stuck in "incomplete delivery" land. It's much better to lose on older models than lose on a new one.
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TheGetFresh
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5/7/2021 3:14pm
I’m hoping they at least get away from the ugly black star racing look and just make it blue again
From what the dealer told me when I bought my 450, the Yamaha corporate dealer software will bring up all monster edition bikes if you type “Kyle” in the search.

Sick.
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sandhills
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5/7/2021 3:20pm
Falcon wrote:
They absolutely WILL hold back new unit production if they cannot get spark plugs, ECUs, tires, radiators, rims, spokes, shocks, forks, plastic, etc., none of which...
They absolutely WILL hold back new unit production if they cannot get spark plugs, ECUs, tires, radiators, rims, spokes, shocks, forks, plastic, etc., none of which is manufactured in-house.

You can bet this pandemic slowdown has made everyone re-think their new model release plans. Maybe the plans have remained the same, but they have definitely been re-thought. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that "new" models are pushed a season or two. The release engineers like to see their new models sell well in the first year, not get stuck in "incomplete delivery" land. It's much better to lose on older models than lose on a new one.
But how many of those parts are not made in Japan? Autozone might be low on NGK's due to international shipping delays, but Yamaha has domestic access to them and like I said, nothing has shut down there. A lot of the shortages you're talking about are due to overseas supply chains. Japan has not shut down, there's no reason why they would face domestic supply problems.
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twotwosix
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5/7/2021 5:42pm
Brad460 wrote:
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design... New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting...
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

True.

Suzuki been preparing for Covid for a decade now... hahaha
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jaun
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5/7/2021 5:57pm
Brad460 wrote:
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design... New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting...
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

Odds are they already had the tooling pre plandamic
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PJRAUS
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5/7/2021 6:29pm
Brad460 wrote:
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design... New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting...
Now is a bad time to roll out a new design...

New design means new tooling..etc. Hard enough time getting current supplier parts let alone getting new molds and tooling built..

jaun wrote:
Odds are they already had the tooling pre plandamic
Yes...they would've begun prototyping the next generation possibly as early as 2017, probably began tooling for it when the pre productin phase bikes had been fully evaluated, possibly 2 years ago..when you are looking at a 4 year generation cycle..you are also looking at a 4 year design and development cycle on the new gener.
So if Yamaha is set to release a new generation 450 this year as a 2022 desinated model, then they have probaly already gotadvanced designs on the drawing board for the 2026 model and protyping probably on the schedule for next year.
It would be my guess rhat major tooling for a 22model 450, if its going to be anew generation, would likely have been completed 2 years ago
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Richy
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5/8/2021 2:25pm
I guess it'd be stupid to ask about the YZ 125 / 250?

The 21's did look sick though.
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mx317
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5/8/2021 9:07pm
The 2020 YZ450F was mostly new. It had a different frame and many engine changes. The 21 YZ250F got those changes the following year. I would be surprised to see an all new 450 this year, but you never know.
sandhills
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5/8/2021 9:42pm
Richy wrote:
I guess it'd be stupid to ask about the YZ 125 / 250?

The 21's did look sick though.
Let's dream that they dust off the prototype molds from 2004 for the 2005 successor, counterbalanced.

Personally I'll be happy as long as they don't surprise discontinue them. Does anyone know how it went with the red green and yellow ones in the 2000's, was there warning or were they suddenly just not released for a new model year?
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Richy
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5/9/2021 1:12am
Agreed that it's a credit to them for making them available still, nice to give people who want it a Japanese option, I can't knock that at all.

Clearly it's still a fine scooter, but gotta keep the dream of a legit update alive because you just know how great it could be now Smile
dcg141
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5/9/2021 5:39am
Richy wrote:
I guess it'd be stupid to ask about the YZ 125 / 250?

The 21's did look sick though.
sandhills wrote:
Let's dream that they dust off the prototype molds from 2004 for the 2005 successor, counterbalanced. Personally I'll be happy as long as they don't surprise...
Let's dream that they dust off the prototype molds from 2004 for the 2005 successor, counterbalanced.

Personally I'll be happy as long as they don't surprise discontinue them. Does anyone know how it went with the red green and yellow ones in the 2000's, was there warning or were they suddenly just not released for a new model year?
Honda stopped and Suzuki and Kawasaki followed. Not sure why Yamaha delayed but you have to think their sales went up so they just kept producing them. I think Japan wanted to stop but the US off-road teams begged them not to so they stayed in the lineup.
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5/9/2021 6:02am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 6:31am
YZ 2 stks. are considered world models. To discontinue them there would have to be a meeting with all the distributors from each country around the world they are sold in. That meeting has never been held, planned, or even talked about.

With the growing popularity in Europe of the EMX 2 stk. classes and the partnership with Fantic, more 2 stk. 125/250's are being built in higher production numbers than probably 20 years.

2 stk. dirtbikes have a solid future with Yamaha, might see some mechanical updates in the near future?
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sandhills
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5/9/2021 6:30am
Chuck_Nice wrote:
YZ 2 stks. are considered world models. To discontinue them there would have to be a meeting with all the distributors from each country around the...
YZ 2 stks. are considered world models. To discontinue them there would have to be a meeting with all the distributors from each country around the world they are sold in. That meeting has never been held, planned, or even talked about.

With the growing popularity in Europe of the EMX 2 stk. classes and the partnership with Fantic, more 2 stk. 125/250's are being built in higher production numbers than probably 20 years.

2 stk. dirtbikes have a solid future with Yamaha, might see some mechanical updates in the near future?
I agree that looks like the overall outlook. The thought that scares me is what if the Fantic deal serves to satisfy that remaining market for them and they decide to end first party production. They could move more production to Italy, still control the licensing / molds / etc. but drop a possibly unprofitable model from their Japanese production line.

Unlikely but just a thought that scares me. It depends if they see California's red sticker revisions as the beginning of a new wave of global regulation or just another outlier to be ignored. The first red sticker program failed to move the market so hopefully the competition sticker program will be similarly ineffective.

Outside of US and Europe what do we think the remaining significant markets for 2T YZ's are? Australia and NZ I think, but probably nothing else significant.
5/9/2021 8:14am
Chuck_Nice wrote:
YZ 2 stks. are considered world models. To discontinue them there would have to be a meeting with all the distributors from each country around the...
YZ 2 stks. are considered world models. To discontinue them there would have to be a meeting with all the distributors from each country around the world they are sold in. That meeting has never been held, planned, or even talked about.

With the growing popularity in Europe of the EMX 2 stk. classes and the partnership with Fantic, more 2 stk. 125/250's are being built in higher production numbers than probably 20 years.

2 stk. dirtbikes have a solid future with Yamaha, might see some mechanical updates in the near future?
sandhills wrote:
I agree that looks like the overall outlook. The thought that scares me is what if the Fantic deal serves to satisfy that remaining market for...
I agree that looks like the overall outlook. The thought that scares me is what if the Fantic deal serves to satisfy that remaining market for them and they decide to end first party production. They could move more production to Italy, still control the licensing / molds / etc. but drop a possibly unprofitable model from their Japanese production line.

Unlikely but just a thought that scares me. It depends if they see California's red sticker revisions as the beginning of a new wave of global regulation or just another outlier to be ignored. The first red sticker program failed to move the market so hopefully the competition sticker program will be similarly ineffective.

Outside of US and Europe what do we think the remaining significant markets for 2T YZ's are? Australia and NZ I think, but probably nothing else significant.
I think Yamaha will maintain control of production? Probably going to see Fantic use more Yamaha bikes for future models. Yamaha is kind of doing the KTM business model with Fantic.

Yes Australia and NZ is still a big market along with Europe for 2 stks. Many of the race sanctions and governing bodies are seeing the need for the 125 bike as a stepping stone from the 85's to 250F's. At Yamaha it has also been noticed that the number of 125/250 2 stk. used in GNCC and various off road race series has grown each year.

Yamaha has moved the motorsports division to just outside of Atlanta, GA a couple years ago. Now Star Racing is setting up in Florida, California is just to restrictive and afraid they will just get worse for motorsports in general, 2 and 4 wheels.
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sandhills
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5/9/2021 8:53am
Chuck_Nice wrote:
I think Yamaha will maintain control of production? Probably going to see Fantic use more Yamaha bikes for future models. Yamaha is kind of doing the...
I think Yamaha will maintain control of production? Probably going to see Fantic use more Yamaha bikes for future models. Yamaha is kind of doing the KTM business model with Fantic.

Yes Australia and NZ is still a big market along with Europe for 2 stks. Many of the race sanctions and governing bodies are seeing the need for the 125 bike as a stepping stone from the 85's to 250F's. At Yamaha it has also been noticed that the number of 125/250 2 stk. used in GNCC and various off road race series has grown each year.

Yamaha has moved the motorsports division to just outside of Atlanta, GA a couple years ago. Now Star Racing is setting up in Florida, California is just to restrictive and afraid they will just get worse for motorsports in general, 2 and 4 wheels.
We'll see. If SB227 passes it might actually turn out to be a good thing for two stroke dirt bikes in CA, it takes the decision making away from the regulators (CARCool and puts it into direct legislative control. Unlike CARB the legislators do not (contrary to popular belief) show up to work every day and wring their hands over the minutiae of nitric oxide emissions. They only care about what their voters care about and voters only care whether two strokes are interrupting their zoom calls or pulling up next to their open window at a stop light.
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