New motocross era (electric)

Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 11/7/2018 8:51am
11/7/2018 8:51am Edited Date/Time 11/7/2018 8:59am
That Sur Ron is a game changer for sure! I can see that thing owning single track. That battery is 4 times the normal e-bike.

$3890 and 110 lbs. Want.




BobInIndy
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BobInIndy 11/8/2018 5:50am
11/8/2018 5:50am
Johnny Depp wrote:
That Sur Ron is a game changer for sure! I can see that thing owning single track. That battery is 4 times the normal e-bike. $3890...
That Sur Ron is a game changer for sure! I can see that thing owning single track. That battery is 4 times the normal e-bike.

$3890 and 110 lbs. Want.




I wonder how much of the total price is attributable to the battery. Seems battery technology is the main component in all the electric bikes, cars and motorcycles. Battery development sure could use another shot in the arm....lower prices, ability to quickly charge, reduced weight, etc.
Kx125rider 11/8/2018 5:58am
11/8/2018 5:58am
milamcreek wrote:
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles. The internal combustion engine will never...
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles.
The internal combustion engine will never go away in our or our children's lifetime. It is and will be the most viable form of travel for many lifetimes.
Facts Tesla in trouble, hybrid sales tanking, Alta closing. The fact is that racing Motorsports is and will not ever be conducive to electric. No feathering clutches, no feeling the rev of the bike and the fact is if you want to kill the sport fully try selling tickets to that show.
You don't have to look far Formula E they can't sell a single ticket.
RBSR another example
There are other forms of alternatives that will launch well more successful than electric.
Alternative fuels will be the next in line. Not NGL's or LPG's but hydro is next.
Do research on lead ore and lithium strip mining and the damage is a 100 times more to the environment than oil exploration.
Stop selling what no one is buying.
Oh and by the way before you start slamming on me I have more involved in this field than 99.9999% of all of you. I am the President of a Battery Company in the US, so I have a lot of equity in the subject
alex69 wrote:

And what is a hydro fuel cel producing?
Right electricity.
milamcreek wrote:
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o...
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o. This technology is not new it has been around for along time. However this group has just about perfected it.
Breakdown water and what do you have the cleanest burning fuel ever oxygen and hydrogen
This technology has been muffled for a while but look to this coming forward soon.
But it takes a tremendous amount of energy to break h2o and Hydrogen is extremely unstable and hard to contain in a pure form. How do they conbat this?
early
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early 11/8/2018 6:08am
11/8/2018 6:08am
alex69 wrote:

And what is a hydro fuel cel producing?
Right electricity.
milamcreek wrote:
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o...
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o. This technology is not new it has been around for along time. However this group has just about perfected it.
Breakdown water and what do you have the cleanest burning fuel ever oxygen and hydrogen
This technology has been muffled for a while but look to this coming forward soon.
Kx125rider wrote:
But it takes a tremendous amount of energy to break h2o and Hydrogen is extremely unstable and hard to contain in a pure form. How do...
But it takes a tremendous amount of energy to break h2o and Hydrogen is extremely unstable and hard to contain in a pure form. How do they conbat this?
Hydrolysis has been the snake oil of energy for a long time, I'll believe it when I see it.
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milamcreek
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milamcreek 11/8/2018 11:24am
11/8/2018 11:24am
alex69 wrote:

And what is a hydro fuel cel producing?
Right electricity.
milamcreek wrote:
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o...
No I have been working with a company for years that has produced an engine chevy 350 that runs on water that's right water hydro h2o. This technology is not new it has been around for along time. However this group has just about perfected it.
Breakdown water and what do you have the cleanest burning fuel ever oxygen and hydrogen
This technology has been muffled for a while but look to this coming forward soon.
Kx125rider wrote:
But it takes a tremendous amount of energy to break h2o and Hydrogen is extremely unstable and hard to contain in a pure form. How do...
But it takes a tremendous amount of energy to break h2o and Hydrogen is extremely unstable and hard to contain in a pure form. How do they conbat this?
Well believe it, this company is driving an old cj jeep with a chevy 350 on nothing but water. this is happening, the information is proprietary and I can not discuss the ins and outs just know that it works
loftyair
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loftyair 11/8/2018 11:38am
11/8/2018 11:38am
Overall, technology is supressed, so that things stay the same. Many advancements get bought, and shelved.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 11/8/2018 12:52pm
11/8/2018 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2018 1:03pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
That Sur Ron is a game changer for sure! I can see that thing owning single track. That battery is 4 times the normal e-bike. $3890...
That Sur Ron is a game changer for sure! I can see that thing owning single track. That battery is 4 times the normal e-bike.

$3890 and 110 lbs. Want.




This Thing is Pretty Cool But ugly.
If they make that thing look cool , look out ! lol
I Raced RC Cars in the early 90's electric
Good times.
I personally think electric is Gonna be the future of MX.
But the question is How long until it gets there ?
5yrs ? 10 Years?
By get there I mean until the technology is better to the point That they are what is being used in Pro MX and is becoming the majority of what is being Used by the Masses , once that Happens I truly believe MX will flourish again because of new Riding area's and new tracks etc ,
But until that Happens I wonder if anyone is working on trying to gain more riding area's and open new tracks
It seems Like people have just Given up on MX in a way
, and it's just shrinking and Shrinking, imo people still need to work on it For what we have now because it could be 10 yrs or more until that happens, and if it does happen sooner than great than
We switch and use the electric at the new areas also.
I Guess I'm wondering if The AMA or any other organization is trying to fight for More offroad Riding area's
In the USA?
I know California has a lot of Desert and open Land But some area's Dont.
StevieTimes
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StevieTimes 11/9/2018 9:24pm
11/9/2018 9:24pm
They built four strokes before Yamaha built the YZ400F in 1998. There were many of them. All of them were insufficient, in one way or another, to dethrone the mighty two stroke. EVERYBODY was on a two-stroke. If you showed up to a motocross race on a four stroke in 1994, something was wrong with you.

XR400 or XR600? Ha! Trail bike rider! Why are you bringing those slow heavy pigs to a track?

XT or Yamaha enduro? What, are you trying to prove a point or something?



So finally, skip ahead, Yamaha got something right that had been missing from other four strokes. Was it a huge change from what was there before? It depends on your point of view,.


So here we are today. Maybe Yamaha will do it again; they'll get that magic ratio of weight, power, and endurance to pull people over with a new electric model. Maybe the AMA will want to help push that way, and they'll let Yamaha race 'em with everything else; and there we go. They didn't make us buy four strokes; they made them awesome, especially compared to what they were racing against, and we couldn't help ourselves. If they give electric a little power advantage, make them easier to ride, like the four strokes, and boom, everybody will buy electric to have an advantage over the next guy. Soon, we all will be on electric.

The showrooms will only sell electric, four strokes will be less and less on the showroom floors, and we'll tell our kids the things we've seen on those very floors in our lifetimes.
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Tarz483
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Tarz483 11/10/2018 7:36pm
11/10/2018 7:36pm
StevieTimes wrote:
They built four strokes before Yamaha built the YZ400F in 1998. There were many of them. All of them were insufficient, in one way or another...
They built four strokes before Yamaha built the YZ400F in 1998. There were many of them. All of them were insufficient, in one way or another, to dethrone the mighty two stroke. EVERYBODY was on a two-stroke. If you showed up to a motocross race on a four stroke in 1994, something was wrong with you.

XR400 or XR600? Ha! Trail bike rider! Why are you bringing those slow heavy pigs to a track?

XT or Yamaha enduro? What, are you trying to prove a point or something?



So finally, skip ahead, Yamaha got something right that had been missing from other four strokes. Was it a huge change from what was there before? It depends on your point of view,.


So here we are today. Maybe Yamaha will do it again; they'll get that magic ratio of weight, power, and endurance to pull people over with a new electric model. Maybe the AMA will want to help push that way, and they'll let Yamaha race 'em with everything else; and there we go. They didn't make us buy four strokes; they made them awesome, especially compared to what they were racing against, and we couldn't help ourselves. If they give electric a little power advantage, make them easier to ride, like the four strokes, and boom, everybody will buy electric to have an advantage over the next guy. Soon, we all will be on electric.

The showrooms will only sell electric, four strokes will be less and less on the showroom floors, and we'll tell our kids the things we've seen on those very floors in our lifetimes.
All good points and I cant say any of that isnt true ,
Only time will tell I guess. But I hope people are trying to still create new riding area's for the bike's we have now because the switch could take longer than expected and
People site, cost as factor
And 4 strokes as a factor
, but I think lack of riding area's is
A big factor , maybe even the biggest factor ,
In less new bike sales and less new Riders etc.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 11/10/2018 7:40pm
11/10/2018 7:40pm
Era? Let's give it a fair shake before the the moniker is given.
Adam43
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Adam43 11/10/2018 8:36pm
11/10/2018 8:36pm
Motocross has been dictated by OEMs since its infancy. If they don't have a hot product, it's often a shit business and treated as a loss leader.

Startup costs for a new entrant in this industry are extreme, and long term market prospects are not perceived as good. Witness the slow death of Alta.

Electric will happen if/when the Big 5 decide that its in their interest.
SCR
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SCR 11/10/2018 11:28pm
11/10/2018 11:28pm
VRR7 wrote:
Nobody wants to hear about the cobalt mining impacts, or the nickle, cadnium, lithium, and all the environmental damage that goes with it from mining , processing, and recycling. EVS are the future nevermind that they rely mostly on coal and natural gas to charge the batteries.
Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 11/11/2018 6:05am
11/11/2018 6:05am
StevieTimes wrote:
They built four strokes before Yamaha built the YZ400F in 1998. There were many of them. All of them were insufficient, in one way or another...
They built four strokes before Yamaha built the YZ400F in 1998. There were many of them. All of them were insufficient, in one way or another, to dethrone the mighty two stroke. EVERYBODY was on a two-stroke. If you showed up to a motocross race on a four stroke in 1994, something was wrong with you.

XR400 or XR600? Ha! Trail bike rider! Why are you bringing those slow heavy pigs to a track?

XT or Yamaha enduro? What, are you trying to prove a point or something?



So finally, skip ahead, Yamaha got something right that had been missing from other four strokes. Was it a huge change from what was there before? It depends on your point of view,.


So here we are today. Maybe Yamaha will do it again; they'll get that magic ratio of weight, power, and endurance to pull people over with a new electric model. Maybe the AMA will want to help push that way, and they'll let Yamaha race 'em with everything else; and there we go. They didn't make us buy four strokes; they made them awesome, especially compared to what they were racing against, and we couldn't help ourselves. If they give electric a little power advantage, make them easier to ride, like the four strokes, and boom, everybody will buy electric to have an advantage over the next guy. Soon, we all will be on electric.

The showrooms will only sell electric, four strokes will be less and less on the showroom floors, and we'll tell our kids the things we've seen on those very floors in our lifetimes.
Don't forget about Husaberg. Guy Cooper made those bikes look pretty good in the 90's and wouldn't doubt if Yamaha got a little influence that.

You hit the nail on the head though. One of the big OEM's is undoubtedly working on an electric motocross bike. Yamaha will probably be the first to bite as they now have an electric trials bike so it seems they're testing the waters.
Alta showed what is possible and now one of these deep pocket OEM's are going to perfect it.
StevieTimes
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StevieTimes 11/13/2018 10:03am
11/13/2018 10:03am
I also wonder if Yamaha already has it, but they're sitting on it. I'm not sure when the time is to release it, but think about this:

You and I own a company. We sell radio controlled airplanes. We could easily make battery power work; but we are sitting on thousands of internal combustion engines. We talk. Dang, we say, wouldn't it be nice to make some more cash on our investments we've made on engines and frames? We could sell these for a few more years before we spring electric on people.

The tough part is; being first, but not TOO early. When you "pull the pin", you are going to hurt sales of your existing product. When do you pull the pin? Tough question. I think we'll find out in the next five years.
theycallmeebryan 11/13/2018 10:57am
11/13/2018 10:57am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2018 10:58am
milamcreek wrote:
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles. The internal combustion engine will never...
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles.
The internal combustion engine will never go away in our or our children's lifetime. It is and will be the most viable form of travel for many lifetimes.
Facts Tesla in trouble, hybrid sales tanking, Alta closing. The fact is that racing Motorsports is and will not ever be conducive to electric. No feathering clutches, no feeling the rev of the bike and the fact is if you want to kill the sport fully try selling tickets to that show.
You don't have to look far Formula E they can't sell a single ticket.
RBSR another example
There are other forms of alternatives that will launch well more successful than electric.
Alternative fuels will be the next in line. Not NGL's or LPG's but hydro is next.
Do research on lead ore and lithium strip mining and the damage is a 100 times more to the environment than oil exploration.
Stop selling what no one is buying.
Oh and by the way before you start slamming on me I have more involved in this field than 99.9999% of all of you. I am the President of a Battery Company in the US, so I have a lot of equity in the subject
I'll bite.

Your reference to Formula E is moot point. My Alta Redshift MXR is already competitive against gas bikes. I don't need a separate electric bike class to race in. I race regularly against brand new 450 mx machines and am very competitive. I don't feel like i'm missing out on any of the "motocross experience" just because i don't have a clutch, don't have to shift, and don't have loud engine noises. It actually allows me to focus on my riding, my lines, and improving my fundamentals. And to that point, i haven't lost any of those "gas bike" skills and have jumped back on my gas bikes with no issues whatsoever.

It's not destroying the sport. Literally every single person that i let ride my bike comes off of it with a child-like smile on their face. "F the gas bikes, this thing rocks!" "Wow, this bike is incredible!" "I can't believe how good this bike is!" Just to reference a few. If anything, it will help the sport in the long term. Sure, the cost is a bit higher than gas bikes, but so is any new technology entering any business. The cost is offset by the lack of maintenance i have to do (and time spent doing it), the decreased level of ear damage i am subjecting myself to (i already have tinnitus in my right ear due to loud gas bikes), and the fact that it (potentially) allows more riding areas to open up due to lack of noise.

I'll admit, at the moment it sucks right now as an owner of an Alta. Us owners are kind of in limbo right now. They gave us a short window last week to order replacement parts and i took full advantage to get "Alta specific" parts I think may need to be replaced in the future. Its a real shame that it has come to this, but it's not stopping me from enjoying the bike. The drivetrain is rock solid and should last a very long time. If, in 5+ years i need to think about replacing the battery, there will be ways to do it. The pack has some complex circuitry, but nothing too crazy, and the cells are common 18650 lithium ion cells, typically used in laptops and such, and Tesla uses similar batteries just arranged in a different way. The dangerous part is the pack contains seriously lethal levels of voltage and current.

"Stop selling what noone is buying". What an arrogant comment. How can you buy something if it's not for sale?
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Frank
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Frank 11/13/2018 11:36am
11/13/2018 11:36am
There is an entire forum on this board dedicated strictly to electric bike discussions. Those who love electric can talk about it among themselves.

If not since the mods are cool with leaving everything in 1 place everyone needs to start posting For Sale ads, tech questions, bike builds and non moto here also right?
Tarz483
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Tarz483 11/13/2018 11:48am
11/13/2018 11:48am
milamcreek wrote:
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles. The internal combustion engine will never...
I can't keep silent any longer about the subject of electric MX bikes and for that matter all electric vehicles.
The internal combustion engine will never go away in our or our children's lifetime. It is and will be the most viable form of travel for many lifetimes.
Facts Tesla in trouble, hybrid sales tanking, Alta closing. The fact is that racing Motorsports is and will not ever be conducive to electric. No feathering clutches, no feeling the rev of the bike and the fact is if you want to kill the sport fully try selling tickets to that show.
You don't have to look far Formula E they can't sell a single ticket.
RBSR another example
There are other forms of alternatives that will launch well more successful than electric.
Alternative fuels will be the next in line. Not NGL's or LPG's but hydro is next.
Do research on lead ore and lithium strip mining and the damage is a 100 times more to the environment than oil exploration.
Stop selling what no one is buying.
Oh and by the way before you start slamming on me I have more involved in this field than 99.9999% of all of you. I am the President of a Battery Company in the US, so I have a lot of equity in the subject
theycallmeebryan wrote:
I'll bite. Your reference to Formula E is moot point. My Alta Redshift MXR is already competitive against gas bikes. I don't need a separate electric...
I'll bite.

Your reference to Formula E is moot point. My Alta Redshift MXR is already competitive against gas bikes. I don't need a separate electric bike class to race in. I race regularly against brand new 450 mx machines and am very competitive. I don't feel like i'm missing out on any of the "motocross experience" just because i don't have a clutch, don't have to shift, and don't have loud engine noises. It actually allows me to focus on my riding, my lines, and improving my fundamentals. And to that point, i haven't lost any of those "gas bike" skills and have jumped back on my gas bikes with no issues whatsoever.

It's not destroying the sport. Literally every single person that i let ride my bike comes off of it with a child-like smile on their face. "F the gas bikes, this thing rocks!" "Wow, this bike is incredible!" "I can't believe how good this bike is!" Just to reference a few. If anything, it will help the sport in the long term. Sure, the cost is a bit higher than gas bikes, but so is any new technology entering any business. The cost is offset by the lack of maintenance i have to do (and time spent doing it), the decreased level of ear damage i am subjecting myself to (i already have tinnitus in my right ear due to loud gas bikes), and the fact that it (potentially) allows more riding areas to open up due to lack of noise.

I'll admit, at the moment it sucks right now as an owner of an Alta. Us owners are kind of in limbo right now. They gave us a short window last week to order replacement parts and i took full advantage to get "Alta specific" parts I think may need to be replaced in the future. Its a real shame that it has come to this, but it's not stopping me from enjoying the bike. The drivetrain is rock solid and should last a very long time. If, in 5+ years i need to think about replacing the battery, there will be ways to do it. The pack has some complex circuitry, but nothing too crazy, and the cells are common 18650 lithium ion cells, typically used in laptops and such, and Tesla uses similar batteries just arranged in a different way. The dangerous part is the pack contains seriously lethal levels of voltage and current.

"Stop selling what noone is buying". What an arrogant comment. How can you buy something if it's not for sale?
Im Starting to warm up to the idea , of electric bikes
I think at indoor supercross it would be great to be able to hear the anouncing better and talk to the people your there with etc , i still kinda like the idea of a separate class just because i think they will get better and then people are forced to go that way in order to stay competitive, by separating them i think they could both thrive, i feel the same with 2 stroke 4 stroke personally, also i havent ridden an alta , i cant afford 1 so i haven't tried to make a point to try 1 , i am pretty sure i would like it and i already feel like i would buy one if i could , to me it isnt the noise that makes the sport great.
Also i feel confident that electric bikes can help the sport grow by crearing more riding area's and more riding area's will bring in more new riders.
I hope They find a way to save the company, if not i hope some of the guys in the know , create a new company that picks up where they left off.

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 11/13/2018 5:36pm
11/13/2018 5:36pm
Frank wrote:
There is an entire forum on this board dedicated strictly to electric bike discussions. Those who love electric can talk about it among themselves. If not...
There is an entire forum on this board dedicated strictly to electric bike discussions. Those who love electric can talk about it among themselves.

If not since the mods are cool with leaving everything in 1 place everyone needs to start posting For Sale ads, tech questions, bike builds and non moto here also right?
Frank be glad there is some off season traffic on this forum. Just like too many classes in MX, too many categories will kill a website.

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