New FIM World Supercross Championship

aeffertz
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aeffertz 3/1/2022 6:59pm
3/1/2022 6:59pm
BS12 wrote:
Armchair amatuer's hot take: Justin Barcia and the Lawrence brothers are in. AME Management, owned by the World SX guys, were over shooting Barcia and the...
Armchair amatuer's hot take: Justin Barcia and the Lawrence brothers are in.

AME Management, owned by the World SX guys, were over shooting Barcia and the Lawrences about a month ago.

Currently they have no other connection to Justin, save for him bailing on Aus-X a few years ago very close to the event (I think it was an eye issue?)

Unless they're gathering B-Roll for general promotion, I'm going out on a limb that JB51 is in.
One would assume the Lawrences would be by some default due to their connection to the promoter.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I think those guys are in for this year because it takes place after the nationals and before 2023 SX.
I would imagine they would want some sort of break after a long year of racing and before 2022 SX though. None of these riders are contracted to race any of these events yet.
Snoqualmie
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Snoqualmie 3/1/2022 8:58pm
3/1/2022 8:58pm
drudd21 wrote:
I think some people are missing the point here...the 'team licence' concept is a new thing for MX/SX. There are 10 licences up for grabs -...
I think some people are missing the point here...the 'team licence' concept is a new thing for MX/SX. There are 10 licences up for grabs - some of them may be snapped up by OEMs, but it is likely that many will be purchased by independent owners (think Lawrence Stroll in F1). The current factory/satellite/privateer teams won't have anything to do with this series unless they are prepared to change their business structures and purchase a licence.

Here is a quote from Adam Bailey (SX Global): “If the series grows, which we expect it too, the value of these team licenses will grow. The only way for someone to be a part of it, will be to buy out one of the original investors.

"As a very recent example, in NASCAR, Michael Jordan just purchased one of the teams for $13 million dollars, and three years ago it was $2-3 million."

I believe the goal is to create a situation where the 10 teams build up their own brand identity and following, meaning fans will follow the teams, rather than the individual riders. Sure, high-profile riders will turn heads, but I think simply gaining a seat on one of these teams will raise the rider's profile anyway.
Exactly. F1 teams are worth what? $500m for a low tier team? Buying into F1 includes a $200m fee that is divided amongst the current teams to cover the dilution of a new team coming in. Google Michael Andretti here…
scott_nz
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scott_nz 3/1/2022 9:23pm
3/1/2022 9:23pm
BS12 wrote:
Armchair amatuer's hot take: Justin Barcia and the Lawrence brothers are in. AME Management, owned by the World SX guys, were over shooting Barcia and the...
Armchair amatuer's hot take: Justin Barcia and the Lawrence brothers are in.

AME Management, owned by the World SX guys, were over shooting Barcia and the Lawrences about a month ago.

Currently they have no other connection to Justin, save for him bailing on Aus-X a few years ago very close to the event (I think it was an eye issue?)

Unless they're gathering B-Roll for general promotion, I'm going out on a limb that JB51 is in.
One would assume the Lawrences would be by some default due to their connection to the promoter.
Maybe this year when it doesn’t clash , but do you see the Lawrence brothers taking a pay cut from Honda to skip the outdoors in 23 , Honda USA who pay the contract won’t give a fuck about the world sx , just like they didn’t give a fuck in the 80s and 90s when it was a series

Barcia doing a year on the retirement Tour is more likely
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luke11
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luke11 3/2/2022 2:22am
3/2/2022 2:22am
How important is an American outdoor going to be though if this world SX series can get at least the same amount of eyeballs as current ama sx?
If that is the case and I was Mr.Honda for example I would want my bikes at the front of world sx, ama sx and MXGP over ama outdoor…
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dirtwalker 3/2/2022 3:06am
3/2/2022 3:06am
drudd21 wrote:
I think some people are missing the point here...the 'team licence' concept is a new thing for MX/SX. There are 10 licences up for grabs -...
I think some people are missing the point here...the 'team licence' concept is a new thing for MX/SX. There are 10 licences up for grabs - some of them may be snapped up by OEMs, but it is likely that many will be purchased by independent owners (think Lawrence Stroll in F1). The current factory/satellite/privateer teams won't have anything to do with this series unless they are prepared to change their business structures and purchase a licence.

Here is a quote from Adam Bailey (SX Global): “If the series grows, which we expect it too, the value of these team licenses will grow. The only way for someone to be a part of it, will be to buy out one of the original investors.

"As a very recent example, in NASCAR, Michael Jordan just purchased one of the teams for $13 million dollars, and three years ago it was $2-3 million."

I believe the goal is to create a situation where the 10 teams build up their own brand identity and following, meaning fans will follow the teams, rather than the individual riders. Sure, high-profile riders will turn heads, but I think simply gaining a seat on one of these teams will raise the rider's profile anyway.
drudd21 wrote:
And there are only 4 seats per team (2 for 450s, 2 for 250s). There will be 20 permanent riders per class each year (once again...
And there are only 4 seats per team (2 for 450s, 2 for 250s). There will be 20 permanent riders per class each year (once again, like F1), with two wildcards at each round. So don't expect to see riders jumping around and competing in different events. Once they are in, they are there to stay.
Teams will need contingencies for when 5 riders are out with injury.
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Boomslang
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Boomslang 3/2/2022 3:12am
3/2/2022 3:12am
fanger wrote:
I pray to God they don't televise it on some shitty streaming service and just put it all up free to view on YouTube.
No chance of that. They are in the business to cover their principal investments and then to make money.
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NorCalRedRyder 3/2/2022 3:35am
3/2/2022 3:35am
Buh Bye Kenny and Marv. Sorry you couldn't hang with the big boys in the USA. Still would be cool to have an even a 2nd champion ship. That will earn you a ton of fans I just hopped on the Dylan bandwagon. It'll be like the Ufc and
Bellator. Both suck but that's what we get.
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DonM
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DonM 3/2/2022 5:45am
3/2/2022 5:45am
Let’s not forget that something along these lines has happened before…The X Games had SX, offered big money and huge exposure in their backyard and the factory teams stayed home…I think Josh Hansen went on a private Suz as the big name…
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scott_nz
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scott_nz 3/2/2022 8:37am
3/2/2022 8:37am Edited Date/Time 3/2/2022 8:46am
luke11 wrote:
How important is an American outdoor going to be though if this world SX series can get at least the same amount of eyeballs as current...
How important is an American outdoor going to be though if this world SX series can get at least the same amount of eyeballs as current ama sx?
If that is the case and I was Mr.Honda for example I would want my bikes at the front of world sx, ama sx and MXGP over ama outdoor…
Very important to American Honda and there industry sponsors , a world sx series not so much unless they get a very good tv package which would seem unlikely
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 3/2/2022 9:00am
3/2/2022 9:00am
Just was reading into how it works in F1 and I don’t see it. They pay an amount for each point earned the year before on top of a fee. So the teams don’t pay the same amount. Ferrari went from paying the series almost $5mil in one year then the next dropped to $1.98 and Mercedes paid more. Then there are teams on the list that paid way less. I don’t see the manufacturers joining this when they can go race proven series without doubling their race budget. I wonder what they want for a “license”.
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motoxxx599
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motoxxx599 3/2/2022 10:58am
3/2/2022 10:58am
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10 teams to split over 5 years ... basically 1 million a year per team to operate. Then why have to buy the license? Why not just be a team with a million dollar budget?

ML you ready to throw your hat back in the ring?
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lestat
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lestat 3/2/2022 11:10am
3/2/2022 11:10am
motoxxx599 wrote:
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10...
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10 teams to split over 5 years ... basically 1 million a year per team to operate. Then why have to buy the license? Why not just be a team with a million dollar budget?

ML you ready to throw your hat back in the ring?
The teams are business partners with the series .
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DonM
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DonM 3/2/2022 12:05pm
3/2/2022 12:05pm
motoxxx599 wrote:
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10...
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10 teams to split over 5 years ... basically 1 million a year per team to operate. Then why have to buy the license? Why not just be a team with a million dollar budget?

ML you ready to throw your hat back in the ring?
lestat wrote:
The teams are business partners with the series .
Well not quite…a true business partner would share in the profits and losses….
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soggy
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soggy 3/2/2022 12:22pm
3/2/2022 12:22pm
The only way this works is with massive amounts of greased pockets a la mxgp. Outside of Oz, USA and France. Not many countries care about SX.

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fanger
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fanger 3/2/2022 12:25pm
3/2/2022 12:25pm
So in the case of geico honda losing geico, if they happened to be in this series do they foot the bill to keep them in until they can sort out another sponsor?
RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 3/2/2022 12:46pm
3/2/2022 12:46pm
motoxxx599 wrote:
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10...
So help me understand .. you buy a license to be a team on the series but then the series has set aside $50m for 10 teams to split over 5 years ... basically 1 million a year per team to operate. Then why have to buy the license? Why not just be a team with a million dollar budget?

ML you ready to throw your hat back in the ring?
No the $10mil a year is to promote the events. They aren’t giving it to the teams other than to aid them. How? Who knows. This $10mil is not a present. It’s coming from an investment entity that will expect a certain percentage of a return on their investment. I would say they give 10 and expect 20% more than the 10 back as a return. The series probably had to guarantee them some percentage back in profit. They aren’t hanging over $50mill because they like MX/SX. If it doesn’t perform they will be gone and take the money away.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 3/4/2022 4:07pm
3/4/2022 4:07pm
Steve Matthes on the new series:

Whats your personal reaction to the latest info on World Supercross?

I think that competition, whether it’s race promoters or motocross podcasts, is a good thing. It’ll raise the bar across the sport and as I’ve long said, this is a good thing. Riders getting paid to race, teams getting paid to show up is awesome and I’ll be looking forward to covering the series. From what I hear from teams is that the promoters are talking more along the lines of getting the very elite riders from the USA and them racing the WSX after the US SX series, instead of the US MX series. That, I don’t think, is going to happen. The USA teams get funding to race in the USA, the MXGP teams get funding to race in Europe and so on. I don’t see, say, Jett Lawrence getting paid from Honda to race USA SX and then who’s going to pay him to race WSX? And if you say Honda, who’s going to pay for the rider that will replace him at American Honda at the US motocross races? And who’s paying for all the parts that Jett would need to go race WSX? I don’t think any American-based OEM is going to throw the towel on the American motocross series because that’s not what they’re paid to go do. So I don’t think the elite of the elite will go, if they have an American OEM contract they’ll do both the SX and MX series here, but guys like Justin Brayton (not racing US MX), Marvin Musquin (older guy on last year of SX-only deal) and other riders like that could definitely find a team and sign up. But again, who’s going to pay for the suspension and other parts these elite riders will want on their bikes? I have so many questions, but in the end, it’s a good thing and I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

Still on the FIM series, has there been any whispers of US teams or riders taking a serious look at it?

Oh for sure, I think you can count on a MotoConcepts signing up for that series or any team that doesn’t do the nationals now. Heck, a team like SGB Honda would – I think – ditch the nationals that are expensive to contest for a series like WSX that actually will pay THEM to show up. But no, I don’t expect any American OEM team that gets money to race in the USA in front of USA people to ditch the nationals and go the WSX route.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 3/4/2022 11:47pm
3/4/2022 11:47pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2022 12:00am
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022 or 2023. But the contracts in our sport are short. Give it 3-5 years and this series will attract more and more riders wanting to do SX only deals and completely skip the US nationals.

The SX only deals (AMA and WSX) will just continue to grow year by year. The riders and agents will follow the money, as they should.
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Lastander
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Lastander 3/5/2022 12:39am
3/5/2022 12:39am
Motofinne wrote:
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022...
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022 or 2023. But the contracts in our sport are short. Give it 3-5 years and this series will attract more and more riders wanting to do SX only deals and completely skip the US nationals.

The SX only deals (AMA and WSX) will just continue to grow year by year. The riders and agents will follow the money, as they should.
On the top of my head, would we see Craig, Martin brothers, Forkner, Savatgy, Bogle, Musquin and Roczen doing this? Neither have ”that” much going for them in the US right now, along with MotoConcepts that only runs SX
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lestat
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lestat 3/5/2022 1:24am
3/5/2022 1:24am
Motofinne wrote:
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022...
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022 or 2023. But the contracts in our sport are short. Give it 3-5 years and this series will attract more and more riders wanting to do SX only deals and completely skip the US nationals.

The SX only deals (AMA and WSX) will just continue to grow year by year. The riders and agents will follow the money, as they should.
Yep . Its also not written in stone that the OEM teams will remain the premiere teams either .
mx313
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mx313 3/5/2022 1:29am
3/5/2022 1:29am
I honestly don't think they can overlap the ama outdoors. The reason. A world sx has to fall into the mxgp off season. The series is going to have to run in the months of Oct nov dec.
And I have herd Lawrence's are in. Adam Bailey has been seen with chase sexton and bambam. He also has good ties with Jason Anderson, coop, brayton and Dean Wilson.
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alex69
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alex69 3/5/2022 2:11am
3/5/2022 2:11am
mx313 wrote:
I honestly don't think they can overlap the ama outdoors. The reason. A world sx has to fall into the mxgp off season. The series is...
I honestly don't think they can overlap the ama outdoors. The reason. A world sx has to fall into the mxgp off season. The series is going to have to run in the months of Oct nov dec.
And I have herd Lawrence's are in. Adam Bailey has been seen with chase sexton and bambam. He also has good ties with Jason Anderson, coop, brayton and Dean Wilson.
So the US riders have run SX, Outdoors, MXon, MEC and the WSX?
The GPs also start earlier and earlier with more competitions and more travel.
The body can not handle that at all, then they are burned out in no time.
Please stop with this nonsense there is a top sx event, go pay decent fees in the GPs so that the starting gates are full again, also at overseas GPs, there is no GP in Oceania, in Africa no GP, in South America only 1 GP.
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Spoonguy
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Spoonguy 3/5/2022 5:24am
3/5/2022 5:24am
With these new promotors aiming at the outdoor series timeslot rather than the supercross series, it is going to be interesting how the AMA national series is going to respond to this very real and direct threat. I guess we are going to find out soon how much our national series promotors were able to afford for purses and team support. For that matter MXGP as well. If this new series believed they could compete with the supercross series I am certain they would, but it is conspicuous they chose the outdoor series to compete with, world and nationals both, as low hanging fruit. Perhaps DC could chime in on this threat.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 3/5/2022 5:25am
3/5/2022 5:25am
mx313 wrote:
I honestly don't think they can overlap the ama outdoors. The reason. A world sx has to fall into the mxgp off season. The series is...
I honestly don't think they can overlap the ama outdoors. The reason. A world sx has to fall into the mxgp off season. The series is going to have to run in the months of Oct nov dec.
And I have herd Lawrence's are in. Adam Bailey has been seen with chase sexton and bambam. He also has good ties with Jason Anderson, coop, brayton and Dean Wilson.
The 2nd year they say is starting in July. Since the FIM was the impetus for this I think they are going to cut the MXGP season down in the future (if this is successful). I don’t foresee many “chasing the $$$” so much as someone else said. They like being able to fly home after each race, or to Cali or Fla. They aren’t too eager to be on a 5 month tour in various different countries with all that entails. It will be interesting to see what happens but so far all that is known is a press release and lots of speculation.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 3/5/2022 5:32am
3/5/2022 5:32am
Motofinne wrote:
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022...
Matthes is thinking too shortsighted. Yeah the likes of Jett Lawrence and Chase Sexton wont be lining up in this series in the fall of 2022 or 2023. But the contracts in our sport are short. Give it 3-5 years and this series will attract more and more riders wanting to do SX only deals and completely skip the US nationals.

The SX only deals (AMA and WSX) will just continue to grow year by year. The riders and agents will follow the money, as they should.
Think about what you said. Top riders will still do the US SX series. They’ll have contracts. Think that for part of the year they’ll be allowed to go race in a World SX series for another team?? No way. All this talk about who would go over, they’ll need to be on a team. Oh and don’t forget there are a bunch of guys overseas to choose from as well.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 3/5/2022 5:37am
3/5/2022 5:37am
Spoonguy wrote:
With these new promotors aiming at the outdoor series timeslot rather than the supercross series, it is going to be interesting how the AMA national series...
With these new promotors aiming at the outdoor series timeslot rather than the supercross series, it is going to be interesting how the AMA national series is going to respond to this very real and direct threat. I guess we are going to find out soon how much our national series promotors were able to afford for purses and team support. For that matter MXGP as well. If this new series believed they could compete with the supercross series I am certain they would, but it is conspicuous they chose the outdoor series to compete with, world and nationals both, as low hanging fruit. Perhaps DC could chime in on this threat.
Do the GPS compete with the outdoors? People are having this misconception that they are just going to throw millions of dollars at racers to come race in this series. You’ll see a few guys be joining teams over there who DON’T have any other option. It will be guys who weren’t going to race outdoors and it will be guys with no or very low paying contracts for SX. No one is going to choose WSX over The US series if they have a decent ride here.
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flarider
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flarider 3/5/2022 6:06am
3/5/2022 6:06am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2022 6:09am
Weege really nails this and everyone should commend his honesty and full disclosure of his conflicts of interest.

He also clearly spelled out the first Supercross Wars exactly as it was.

My opinion on this is, we'll see.

That's a lot of money to commit to a lukewarm reception, at least from what I see in the racing world...in and out of moto.

That's like announcing an IPO and everyone at the meeting going "ehhh"

But if they do pull it off, you'll see heavy attendance from the German ADAC and French SX series riders, along with what I can only respectfully refer to as "B Level" (non-elite) or former elite AMA pros heading out.

And I am totally good with that, could make a great feeder for AMA, of course not the real intent of the promoters...money and fame will be at play there
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