New Canadian 250 2 stroke rules.

Drtbykr
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Edited Date/Time 11/23/2014 6:51am
For the 2015 CMRC Rockstar Energy Drink MX Nationals, the following amended rules will apply to 250 two-stroke motorcycles in order to be eligible for competition:

1) The bike must remain in stock form from the intake manifold to the exhaust port, and all engine parts between those two points. All engine parts (ie. cylinder, cylinder head, piston, rings, rod, etc.) must be OEM for that year model.

2) Intake manifold is defined from the rubber boot clamps to the carburetor. No porting or headwork allowed.

3) There are no restrictions on pipes or mufflers other than the fact that they must meet the sound rules.

4) CMRC will be conducting random engine checks throughout the series. CMRC will have a cylinder, cylinder head and piston from each manufacturer for comparison.

5) Any bikes found to be modified will be excluded from the results of the day’s competition.

6) Additionally, a rider may not switch from a two-stroke to a four-stroke or visa-versa. The type of machine on which a rider begins the series is to be used to the completion (ie. Start on a two-stroke, finish on a two-stroke).

The above rules apply to the National series only. For regional and provincial races, the existing rule will not be modified.

- Mark Stallybrass - President, CMRC Rockstar Energy Canada MX Nationals
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Gringoe
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11/10/2014 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 2:45pm
That number 6 rule is pretty smart. I like it. Some may not.

Once again, mx sports..... HERE YOU GO...4 strokes still have a huge advantage and stops the "holeshot machine" theory, since they will be even or underpowered
hellion
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11/10/2014 2:44pm
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a two stroke? This is politics at it's worst, screwing the small guy to pad it's own pockets. It does say for sure though that the two strokes were very competitive with their high dollar valve and cam wonder machines.
Gringoe
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11/10/2014 2:47pm
hellion wrote:
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a...
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a two stroke? This is politics at it's worst, screwing the small guy to pad it's own pockets. It does say for sure though that the two strokes were very competitive with their high dollar valve and cam wonder machines.
Bro, those rules are more than fair to two strokes compared to merica.
yz414
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11/10/2014 2:54pm
I like these rules personally, evens out the feild not only for 2 strokes but also for privateers who cant afford to have a Mod 250F just for the hard pack races

A stock 250 2 stroke still has more HP than a mod 250F so i dont see a problem

This is pulled from Facebook where i saw Mark Stallybrass explaining the rules:

there are some manufacturers and teams that don't want four-strokes racing against two-strokes at all at the Nationals. I'm a big proponent of two-strokes and didn't want to see them gone. We had to make concessions to even out the advantages of two-strokes. The engine restrictions are exactly what is being done in Australia for their National series. It took a lot of investigating, research and negotiation to come up with the rule.

Two-strokes have an advantage in sand and a disadvantage on hard pack. We're trying to even the field, especially at the front of the pack. Plus, factory riders are the only ones that can choose, because they have a trailer full of bikes. "Finish what you started makes it fair for privateers."

The Shop

dedi684
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11/10/2014 2:55pm
What a joke! You can switch from brand to brand but cant ride a 2 stroke if you ride a 4. Stupid.
Crush
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11/10/2014 2:55pm
hellion wrote:
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a...
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a two stroke? This is politics at it's worst, screwing the small guy to pad it's own pockets. It does say for sure though that the two strokes were very competitive with their high dollar valve and cam wonder machines.
Well it still helps a privateer or smaller team who has the option of riding a two stroke for a start.

The sport is better and more interesting with two strokes in it.

All the great sports have comparisons between vehicles or people which make for interest.

Imagine if every basket-baller was the exact same speed and height...

F1 had years where the cars were so even there was no passing.

It's interesting watching a two stroke pull a start, the four strokes bring them in in the corners etc
SwapperMX
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11/10/2014 3:05pm
Sounds very similar to the Aussie rules that have been implemented for next years MX nats. Although it looks like they have gone one step further and are not allowing any modifications. At least the Aus rules allow an engine tuner to modify the head to get the squish right to suit the fuel that is going to be used.
GuyB
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11/10/2014 3:40pm
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely.

I've suggested to the powers that be here more than a few times that I think there are enough smart people around to be able to figure out a formula that works to provide parity between dissimilar engine formulas.

But I also think the biggest tragedy in the whole 2 vs. 4 deal is the loss of 125s. I'd love to figure out a way to make them viable again at the national level.
hellion
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11/10/2014 3:41pm
hellion wrote:
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a...
Sounds like someone threatened to take their toys and go home..........and the CMRC caved. How does this help anyone but a manufacturer who doesn't offer a two stroke? This is politics at it's worst, screwing the small guy to pad it's own pockets. It does say for sure though that the two strokes were very competitive with their high dollar valve and cam wonder machines.
Gringoe wrote:
Bro, those rules are more than fair to two strokes compared to merica.
I gotcha, it is fair. It just seems so crazy that you can spend as much as you want on your already super expensive 4 stroke, but oh no you can't even clean up the ports on a two stroke of put in a tassinari reed valve.
Kawaboy14
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11/10/2014 3:46pm
GuyB wrote:
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely. I've suggested to the powers that be...
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely.

I've suggested to the powers that be here more than a few times that I think there are enough smart people around to be able to figure out a formula that works to provide parity between dissimilar engine formulas.

But I also think the biggest tragedy in the whole 2 vs. 4 deal is the loss of 125s. I'd love to figure out a way to make them viable again at the national level.
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
lestat
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11/10/2014 3:47pm
The way the Monster Energy Kawi 250f's were blowing up in Canada last year , a stock KTM 250 smoker is still the favourite .
GuyB
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11/10/2014 3:49pm
Kawaboy14 wrote:
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would...
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
You might note that none of the things you list happen at a current national.

Pros doubling up classes on a National day? Don't count on it.
Kawaboy14
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11/10/2014 3:54pm
Kawaboy14 wrote:
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would...
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
GuyB wrote:
You might note that none of the things you list happen at a current national. Pros doubling up classes on a National day? Don't count on...
You might note that none of the things you list happen at a current national.

Pros doubling up classes on a National day? Don't count on it.
I realize none of those things happen now I just stated it would be way more fun to watch than any of those things......

if they need some cash and experience they might.....the point is give em the option, make it 10 minutes, its just a suggestion,
MxKing809
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11/10/2014 3:59pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 4:07pm
GuyB wrote:
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely. I've suggested to the powers that be...
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely.

I've suggested to the powers that be here more than a few times that I think there are enough smart people around to be able to figure out a formula that works to provide parity between dissimilar engine formulas.

But I also think the biggest tragedy in the whole 2 vs. 4 deal is the loss of 125s. I'd love to figure out a way to make them viable again at the national level.
Kawaboy14 wrote:
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would...
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
Hey BUD..... You leave the strippers out of this!

As for the rules, it's obvious that someone with some weight and no access to a 2-stroke threw a fit. Especially considering a 2-stroke mounted rider cleaned up. It's sad that it comes to that, but they only have themselves to blame for using the rules as a loophole in 99-02 then getting mad when someone else has a bike they don't make anymore. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me. But at the end of the day, if it keeps the option available it's still a win in my book.

How cool would it be to see the top Loretta Lynn kids on 125's at Red Bud, Millville, and Indiana? Have a little 3 race Midwest shootout. That would be super fun to watch.
nytsmaC
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11/10/2014 4:01pm
Kawaboy14 wrote:
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would...
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
GuyB wrote:
You might note that none of the things you list happen at a current national. Pros doubling up classes on a National day? Don't count on...
You might note that none of the things you list happen at a current national.

Pros doubling up classes on a National day? Don't count on it.
Since pro level 250F's are now basically the equivalent of a 250 2-stroke of ten years ago, how about making the 250 class the premier class, allow 250 2-strokes to play, shelf the 450's since they aren't really faster around the race track anyways, and reintroduce the 125's as the support class.

And if 2-strokes weren't handicapped, all of the manufacturers pulled their heads out of the sand and started building them again, the 4-strokes would fade off into obscurity where they belong, and maybe the sport could start to gain momentum again.

Basically just flash back to 1997 before 4-strokes came along and made competitive racing unaffordable to so many.

It'll probably never happen, but that's the best case scenario in my head.
Skippie
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11/10/2014 4:08pm
People want the sport to grow and to advance, but then they want racing to take a 15 year step back... ok
Kawaboy14
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11/10/2014 4:11pm
GuyB wrote:
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely. I've suggested to the powers that be...
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely.

I've suggested to the powers that be here more than a few times that I think there are enough smart people around to be able to figure out a formula that works to provide parity between dissimilar engine formulas.

But I also think the biggest tragedy in the whole 2 vs. 4 deal is the loss of 125s. I'd love to figure out a way to make them viable again at the national level.
Kawaboy14 wrote:
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would...
have their own 125 support class at the nationals 2 15 minute farm league motos, any pro any amateur could ride it as a secondary moto,,,,,,,,would be way more fun to watch than women, pee wees, old guys, strippers or whatever else they could think of!
MxKing809 wrote:
Hey BUD..... You leave the strippers out of this! As for the rules, it's obvious that someone with some weight and no access to a 2-stroke...
Hey BUD..... You leave the strippers out of this!

As for the rules, it's obvious that someone with some weight and no access to a 2-stroke threw a fit. Especially considering a 2-stroke mounted rider cleaned up. It's sad that it comes to that, but they only have themselves to blame for using the rules as a loophole in 99-02 then getting mad when someone else has a bike they don't make anymore. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me. But at the end of the day, if it keeps the option available it's still a win in my book.

How cool would it be to see the top Loretta Lynn kids on 125's at Red Bud, Millville, and Indiana? Have a little 3 race Midwest shootout. That would be super fun to watch.
that's sounds awesome to me!
nytsmaC
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11/10/2014 4:16pm
Skippie wrote:
People want the sport to grow and to advance, but then they want racing to take a 15 year step back... ok
Other than being able to watch it live, which I'm pretty sure has little to do with 4-strokes, do you not think that the sport could have gone in a better direction since then to where it is at today?

I don't hate 4-strokes, but I do think that they are a major contributing factor to the decline of the sport. A privateer didn't need to have a $25,000+ race bike with 1-race complete engine rebuild intervals and a small team of technicians to be competitive in the either class before 4-strokes came along.
Skippie
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11/10/2014 4:27pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Other than being able to watch it live, which I'm pretty sure has little to do with 4-strokes, do you not think that the sport could...
Other than being able to watch it live, which I'm pretty sure has little to do with 4-strokes, do you not think that the sport could have gone in a better direction since then to where it is at today?

I don't hate 4-strokes, but I do think that they are a major contributing factor to the decline of the sport. A privateer didn't need to have a $25,000+ race bike with 1-race complete engine rebuild intervals and a small team of technicians to be competitive in the either class before 4-strokes came along.
Taking out 450s or 250f from racing I think will hurt the sport as a whole. Sure racing wise it will be a little more accessible, but then you will see a decline in development from manufacturers in the 4st market. Look at KTM they sell out of 2st every year, but the 4st numbers are still way higher. If you kill of the manufacturers main players and money makers then things will only get worse and 2st won't be the same affordable things they are today. I love 2st just as much as the next guy but both have their place in racing.
JBernard_401
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11/10/2014 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 4:42pm
BONE stock 250sx engine against any mod you can throw at a 4T.
riiiiiiiight.
and we're talking KTM 250 2 stroke as well. any other brand would be even more handicapped. So like an 06 rm250 against a 7k+ mod engine. thats just nice.
11/10/2014 4:58pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Since pro level 250F's are now basically the equivalent of a 250 2-stroke of ten years ago, how about making the 250 class the premier class...
Since pro level 250F's are now basically the equivalent of a 250 2-stroke of ten years ago, how about making the 250 class the premier class, allow 250 2-strokes to play, shelf the 450's since they aren't really faster around the race track anyways, and reintroduce the 125's as the support class.

And if 2-strokes weren't handicapped, all of the manufacturers pulled their heads out of the sand and started building them again, the 4-strokes would fade off into obscurity where they belong, and maybe the sport could start to gain momentum again.

Basically just flash back to 1997 before 4-strokes came along and made competitive racing unaffordable to so many.

It'll probably never happen, but that's the best case scenario in my head.
Won't happen unless this hypothetical moto-revolution involved cheap bikes.. which it wouldn't.
Crush
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11/10/2014 5:51pm
GuyB wrote:
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely. I've suggested to the powers that be...
You guys that are whining about this...really? I think your other option might be that the two-strokes disappear completely.

I've suggested to the powers that be here more than a few times that I think there are enough smart people around to be able to figure out a formula that works to provide parity between dissimilar engine formulas.

But I also think the biggest tragedy in the whole 2 vs. 4 deal is the loss of 125s. I'd love to figure out a way to make them viable again at the national level.
Yep!

I would LOVE to see the sport move to 200-250four stroke Vs 250 two strokes is premier class

And 125 replace 250effs as lites...

Lower costs, better racing, and no more 60hp plus bikes in SX...

We all used to say 250 two strokes were a big step back in the day. They're considered slow now. And bones break as easily as always.
burn1986
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11/10/2014 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 6:01pm
Crush wrote:
Well it still helps a privateer or smaller team who has the option of riding a two stroke for a start. The sport is better and...
Well it still helps a privateer or smaller team who has the option of riding a two stroke for a start.

The sport is better and more interesting with two strokes in it.

All the great sports have comparisons between vehicles or people which make for interest.

Imagine if every basket-baller was the exact same speed and height...

F1 had years where the cars were so even there was no passing.

It's interesting watching a two stroke pull a start, the four strokes bring them in in the corners etc
This ^^^

I think the rule is fine. The Aussies did it, right? I also agree with the people who mentioned the 125. Almost everyone wants it back.
O___o
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11/10/2014 6:01pm
The two-strokes aren't the problem. The four-strokes carry a massive design flaw, clearly. They can't keep up. But as is the case with the rest of society, we find ourselves catering to the slowest of the "herd". Congrats motocross, you are de-evolving.
malachi177
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11/10/2014 6:53pm
hellion wrote:
I gotcha, it is fair. It just seems so crazy that you can spend as much as you want on your already super expensive 4 stroke...
I gotcha, it is fair. It just seems so crazy that you can spend as much as you want on your already super expensive 4 stroke, but oh no you can't even clean up the ports on a two stroke of put in a tassinari reed valve.
x1000!!
yz414
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11/10/2014 7:02pm
are flywheel weights legal?
MxKing809
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11/10/2014 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 7:24pm
Unless you mount them between the carb boot and the pipe I believe so........ Blink
FI2T
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11/10/2014 8:16pm
The rules are ok. Much better then our special bus rules. At least they have the balls to try and make the rules fair! 125's could be brought back very easily... MEC has biggest whip, mini's, super mini's, 250f, and big bikes in one night. I have never seen anyone leave early (it's not boring or to long). Qualifying could be done during practice. One 6-10 lap race would take nothing away from the rest of the show.... would it add something? Hell yeah!
jeffro503
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11/10/2014 8:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2014 8:24pm
God damn it!!

" Our new 250 4 strokes can't compete with the older 250 strokes.............but God damn it they are better! "

" WAHHH!!.....We'll take our new 4 strokes and just go home! "

So much bullshit behind all of this if you read into it deep enough.

If I had two kids....one was named 4 stroke....the other one was named 2 stroke......I'd slap the shit out of the 4 stroke kid every day for being a whiny bitch! Silly
reded
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11/10/2014 8:52pm
On a positive note, if the sanctioning bodies in other countries allow 2st vs 4st it may cause the mfgs to throw a little more development towards their 2 strokes. That's a win for those of us who still ride the old dinosaurs.

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