New Alta model

2/1/2018 4:53am Edited Date/Time 9/3/2021 9:23pm
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downard254
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2/1/2018 4:59am
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model and they are claiming that it’s designed to run with250f’s. With 50 HP and almost 150 lb ft of torque, it will make minced meat out of a 450 let alone a 250. Alta is going to do to the 4 stroke MX bikes what the 4 strokes did to the 2 strokes.
HenryA
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2/1/2018 5:00am
I like everything about it except the price tag
2/1/2018 5:01am
downard254 wrote:
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model...
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model and they are claiming that it’s designed to run with250f’s. With 50 HP and almost 150 lb ft of torque, it will make minced meat out of a 450 let alone a 250. Alta is going to do to the 4 stroke MX bikes what the 4 strokes did to the 2 strokes.
This is more than likely the model Hill has been riding. It’s higher performance than the current bike that Ben990 & a few other guys on here own. Longer range & more power at approx. 6lbs less weight.
Motofinne
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2/1/2018 5:04am
Hmm, 50hp and aiming to compete with the 350s. The current gen 350 has around 54-55hp?

Is this still a bike that would be eligible in a 250 class?

The Shop

Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
2/1/2018 5:10am
Really encouraging to see the continuing development in such a short cycle. It appears a lot of the development cost ends up in the price, since the AER's don't nearly account for that much difference.
bdoza10
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Rialto, CA US
2/1/2018 5:58am
I like everything except the 260 pound “wet” weight...
What’s the wet weight of the heaviest 450? Also the weight isn’t sloshing around
1
TJMX947
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Indian Trail, NC US
2/1/2018 6:04am
downard254 wrote:
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model...
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model and they are claiming that it’s designed to run with250f’s. With 50 HP and almost 150 lb ft of torque, it will make minced meat out of a 450 let alone a 250. Alta is going to do to the 4 stroke MX bikes what the 4 strokes did to the 2 strokes.
I've often wondered the same thing about if this will be the nail in the coffin for four strokes. Mitch Payton told Ivan Tedesco in 2004 that the KX125 was basically maxed out and that they had a ton of development to do on the 250F. The sky is the limit with this technology. What sucks for us is there aren't any viable competitors to help keep the price point in check.

Someone has mentioned retrofitting older bikes, and I think that will be a big thing. Time will tell. I'm glad to see the prices coming down on these things but I feel bad for the guy who already spent 15K on them and they dropped to 10.5k already.
nytsmaC
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Frig Off CA
2/1/2018 6:10am
According to their spec it’s 9lbs heavier than a 2018 CRF450 with a full tank of gas. Drop kick the Warp9 wheels and I bet you get a few lbs closer. Considering no internal combustion engine rotating mass and no gas tank to put weight up high I bet it feels much lighter than it is while in motion.
nytsmaC
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2/1/2018 6:14am
downard254 wrote:
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model...
Is this a lower performance model than the previous models that Josh Hill and a few Vital members have? It almost reads like a faster model and they are claiming that it’s designed to run with250f’s. With 50 HP and almost 150 lb ft of torque, it will make minced meat out of a 450 let alone a 250. Alta is going to do to the 4 stroke MX bikes what the 4 strokes did to the 2 strokes.
TJMX947 wrote:
I've often wondered the same thing about if this will be the nail in the coffin for four strokes. Mitch Payton told Ivan Tedesco in 2004...
I've often wondered the same thing about if this will be the nail in the coffin for four strokes. Mitch Payton told Ivan Tedesco in 2004 that the KX125 was basically maxed out and that they had a ton of development to do on the 250F. The sky is the limit with this technology. What sucks for us is there aren't any viable competitors to help keep the price point in check.

Someone has mentioned retrofitting older bikes, and I think that will be a big thing. Time will tell. I'm glad to see the prices coming down on these things but I feel bad for the guy who already spent 15K on them and they dropped to 10.5k already.
It sucks but you always pay a premium when you want to be one of the first to buy something like this. you have to expect and understand that prices will come down after the initial sales frenzy dies down.
TJMX947
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2/1/2018 6:32am
nytsmaC wrote:
It sucks but you always pay a premium when you want to be one of the first to buy something like this. you have to expect...
It sucks but you always pay a premium when you want to be one of the first to buy something like this. you have to expect and understand that prices will come down after the initial sales frenzy dies down.
Yep definitely.

I wonder how much a new battery pack would cost if a guy bought a used one of these in a few years? Any Alta owners have this info? Probably can look it up but my "internetting" hands are fat and lazy.
2/1/2018 6:39am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2018 6:43am
They just dropped the prices by almost $5k. Minus oil, gas, air filters, top ends, etc... it's a better buy than a four stroke. I believe the battery is rated to last 3000 hours. That's a long time.

HP is not nearly as important or as impressive as 147ft/lbs of torque. That's actually pretty incredible.

Fact of the matter is I was going to buy either a new Yamaha or Suzuki but the price drop has changed all of that.
Motofinne
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2/1/2018 6:46am
nytsmaC wrote:
According to their spec it’s 9lbs heavier than a 2018 CRF450 with a full tank of gas. Drop kick the Warp9 wheels and I bet you...
According to their spec it’s 9lbs heavier than a 2018 CRF450 with a full tank of gas. Drop kick the Warp9 wheels and I bet you get a few lbs closer. Considering no internal combustion engine rotating mass and no gas tank to put weight up high I bet it feels much lighter than it is while in motion.
Exactly! I haven't ridden one since they aren't available in Europe but i would guess that it feels just as light as the average 250?

2/1/2018 7:01am
You guys do realize they are spending a ton in R&D right? That fleecing customers because there "Is no viable competition," isn't the reality. Some of the junk posted on here sometimes....
Forty
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2/1/2018 7:17am
Really encouraging to see the continuing development in such a short cycle. It appears a lot of the development cost ends up in the price, since...
Really encouraging to see the continuing development in such a short cycle. It appears a lot of the development cost ends up in the price, since the AER's don't nearly account for that much difference.
Agreed. It’s cool to see how far they have come. The price is fair IMO. The service interval is 1000 hours. Am I reading it wrong. Tires, brakes, and suspension maintenance only for 1000 hours?
Cliffy615
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2/1/2018 7:21am
I wish Alta where on the stock exchange, i'd be throwing down some investment which would likely see huge returns in 5-10 years for sure!!
yz133rider
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2/1/2018 7:35am
147lb ft of torque is more than my 4 cylinder s10 i use to haul 1 or 2 bikes and gear and people to the track!
BobPA
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2/1/2018 8:28am
I texted my bros and said I was selling my 250 and 450, they laughed. I want to test ride in the spring before I make any rash decisions...But, I am thinking its going to happen sooner than later.
Moto_Geek
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2/1/2018 8:36am
did I read that right 1.4-hour recharge, is that how long to recharge or how long it will last? Either way, this would not work in time for motos 2, would need another battery I guess. I really want one for a long trail ride, but running out the battery is just not an option. Easier to bring extra gas.
Fearo
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BE
2/1/2018 8:36am
The moment when the next evolution in battery technology is released, is the moment when we're going to start seeing REALLY competitive E-bikes.

Building a capable electric motor is light work, the problem is the huge, awkwardly shaped and heavy battery. Next-gen tech will probably allow for 5-10 times the energy density at a fraction of the weight.
Think 200 pound motorcycles with 450 destroying power that can ride for an hour straight.

Unfortunately, current lithium battery tech seems pretty much maxed out. There have been some trials with graphene but nothing crazy. The likes of Tesla and Apple are pumping billions into developing the next mainstream ready battery tech and when that day arrives, there will be a HUGE revolution in a bunch of markets, including motocross bikes.
tingo
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Orlando, FL US
2/1/2018 8:47am
Here ye here ye, it's time for another rogue Tingo QnA with Marc from Alta. You know, since the powers that be never did the official one. Get in here Marc and tell us about this new bike.
ben990
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2/1/2018 8:48am
Forty wrote:
Agreed. It’s cool to see how far they have come. The price is fair IMO. The service interval is 1000 hours. Am I reading it wrong...
Agreed. It’s cool to see how far they have come. The price is fair IMO. The service interval is 1000 hours. Am I reading it wrong. Tires, brakes, and suspension maintenance only for 1000 hours?
The things like tires, chain and sprockets, suspension need to be replaced/maintained like on any gas bike. The battery and the motor on the Alta are the pieces that have the high service interval.

I have almost 80 hours and 1000 miles on mine, and it still runs like it did off the showroom floor.

I get pissed now when I have to clean the air filter and change the oil on my son's KX85!

BobPA, you can come up to NY and ride mine if you want.. and then when you are sold on it we can head over to the local Alta dealer about 10 minutes away and get you one!
yz133rider
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2/1/2018 8:54am
ben990 wrote:
The things like tires, chain and sprockets, suspension need to be replaced/maintained like on any gas bike. The battery and the motor on the Alta are...
The things like tires, chain and sprockets, suspension need to be replaced/maintained like on any gas bike. The battery and the motor on the Alta are the pieces that have the high service interval.

I have almost 80 hours and 1000 miles on mine, and it still runs like it did off the showroom floor.

I get pissed now when I have to clean the air filter and change the oil on my son's KX85!

BobPA, you can come up to NY and ride mine if you want.. and then when you are sold on it we can head over to the local Alta dealer about 10 minutes away and get you one!
These things are getting more tempting every week! First the price drop now an updated model! Seriously impressive. Im looking to do a demo day in spring also.
ben990
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2/1/2018 8:56am
Moto_Geek wrote:
did I read that right 1.4-hour recharge, is that how long to recharge or how long it will last? Either way, this would not work in...
did I read that right 1.4-hour recharge, is that how long to recharge or how long it will last? Either way, this would not work in time for motos 2, would need another battery I guess. I really want one for a long trail ride, but running out the battery is just not an option. Easier to bring extra gas.
The 1.4 hour recharge is from a completely empty battery.

I raced my Alta last year several times at local motocross races, and it was no problem charging the battery between motos with a generator. I raced 2 classes, so the race day was A morning practice followed by 4 motos, and at a couple races I did 3 classes ( which is 6 motos for you folks that are bad at math ).

On a side note, 3 classes at 52 years old makes Monday kinda hard!
brocsdad
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Thompsons Station, TN US
2/1/2018 9:14am
Moto_Geek wrote:
did I read that right 1.4-hour recharge, is that how long to recharge or how long it will last? Either way, this would not work in...
did I read that right 1.4-hour recharge, is that how long to recharge or how long it will last? Either way, this would not work in time for motos 2, would need another battery I guess. I really want one for a long trail ride, but running out the battery is just not an option. Easier to bring extra gas.
ben990 wrote:
The 1.4 hour recharge is from a completely empty battery. I raced my Alta last year several times at local motocross races, and it was no...
The 1.4 hour recharge is from a completely empty battery.

I raced my Alta last year several times at local motocross races, and it was no problem charging the battery between motos with a generator. I raced 2 classes, so the race day was A morning practice followed by 4 motos, and at a couple races I did 3 classes ( which is 6 motos for you folks that are bad at math ).

On a side note, 3 classes at 52 years old makes Monday kinda hard!
What classes did you race in?

With the bike not being homologated I could see that being an issue especially if you beat some local guys on gas bikes.

We are out for a year or so due to my sons injury but if they had a class to race in I would definitely consider one.

JMX82
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Hyllykallio FI
2/1/2018 9:14am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2018 9:31am
I think with the new Alta we are going to see similar revolution in our sport what Yamaha YZ400F caused twenty years ago
jasonward73
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West Palm Beach, FL US
2/1/2018 9:20am
Can anyone explain how the 240v charging works? I'm assuming they are using the standard locking 30amp plug found on most generators? Anyone have pics of this charging system?

I have a 50amp outlet in my garage to charge my Teslas. Anyone know if I can plug into that outlet? It's a NEMA 14/50 if that helps.

Did the recharge time on 120v speed up as well?

Can you charge 120v or 240v or do you have to pick one when you order?

If you want to charge on 120v and 240v will you need to order a 120v and 240v specific charger? Or does the 240v charger have provisions for charging on 120v?

Jason
The Candyman
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Santa Cruz, CA US
2/1/2018 9:24am
The only time I can notice the heaviness of the Alta is on wall jumps out of a corner. Thats the only time the inertia feels different too. I ride in mode 3, but prefer mode 4 if the battery didnt die so fast. With that said the Alta is really fun to ride.
McDuff
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RI US
2/1/2018 9:28am
I wonder if it would be legal to race in an enduro or hare scramble? I feel the hp and torque of the Alta would be ideal for an experienced woodsman such as myself.
mark911
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Ashville, OH US
2/1/2018 9:32am
yz133rider wrote:
147lb ft of torque is more than my 4 cylinder s10 i use to haul 1 or 2 bikes and gear and people to the track!
I own a 2017 Alta, just to be upfront. However, when quoting torque figures and comparing to other bikes you need to include the torque multiplying effect of gears. The Alta has ONE gear, therefore it NEEDS 120 plus ft/lbs of torque to accelerate from a standstill. It's the equivalent of trying to gate your 250F in fifth gear! Since the 250F has gears, the lower crankshaft torque is multiplied many times in 1st gear to get the bike accelerating and the multiplication gets smaller each subsequent gear to obtain good top speed.

In fact, based on data from Alta, if you connected the bumpy torque peaks for each gear of a typical 250F with a smooth fitted curve it would look very similar to the torque curve for the Redshift. However, the Alta has no torque "dips" and therefore is superior on the “paper dyno” as there’s definitely “more area under the power curve”. Plus the Alta exceeds the 250F at every point along the curve! And without the need to shift you never suffer from the loss in time/distance associated with shifting or the erratic change in torque at each gear change.

This makes the Alta "feel" similar to your gas bike, it's just faster. And that's what Alta wanted to create. However, it's not orders of magnitude faster as a direct comparisons to torque specs might suggest.

I hope the torque increase is focused way down low, as the Alta lacks a bit of "punch" or "bark" coming out of tight corners. The HP increase is probably due to stretching the torque numbers out at bit at higher speeds. There's not enough traction to hold much more power in mid speeds so it probably pulls even longer now.

I suspect both are probably a result of changing to a Li-Ion cell with higher C ratings and software tweaks. These make more current available to the motor without a corresponding heat increase in the cells.

The weight reduction I'm not sure. The AERs save 3-4 lbs. The new shock maybe 1 lbs. The newer cells might be a tad lighter, maybe 1 lbs. I suspect the new bike is more like 266 lbs.

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