Posts: 1032
Joined: 9/1/2011
Location: FIN
Edited Date/Time:
The whole preface of the article is about how horrible is it that manufacturers actually try to do something different or special with their introductions. Second part is how their shootout is the only truth and how everyone else do really bad job with their shootouts and finally third part is actually the shootout. MXA seems to be the bitter old guy of MX media. https://motocrossactionmag.com/2018-motocross-action-450-shootout/
Posts: 887
Joined: 1/4/2015
Location: San Mateo, CA USA
Nothing like being 4 months late to the shootout party eh mxa
If it can't be fixed with a hammer, it's an electrical problem.
Posts: 9303
Joined: 1/4/2014
Location: FIN
Edited Date/Time:
I don't know why anyone uses MXA as a credible source of information.
These shootouts are embarrassing and cringeworthy. Just look at the video on YouTube, that should be enough.
My sources for information on bikes are Vital, Keefer, Offroad Pro & Xracing(both finnish mags)
Posts: 3153
Joined: 8/16/2006
Location: Granite Falls, NC USA
I'm not getting the negative. In fact, I think they are quite positive that it takes more than a week to test the bikes fairly and thoroughly. I agree with their approach.
Posts: 8882
Joined: 10/31/2009
Location: CA, USA
I agree, seems taking digs at other media outlets doing shootouts and other manufacturers is their thing these days. And I strongly disagree with them that you cannot form an opinion on different bikes within a week.
Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L
Posts: 4901
Joined: 2/13/2013
Location: OH, USA
Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/16/2016
Location: Katy, TX USA
Posts: 1130
Joined: 11/9/2009
Location: Avonmore, PA USA
wreckitrandy wrote:
I'm not getting the negative. In fact, I think they are quite positive that it takes more than a week to test the bikes fairly and thoroughly. I agree with their approach.
I agree. I actually enjoyed reading the explanations of why the do it the way they do,and agree that they should race them continually on familiar tracks. Honestly they've been doing it the same way for 40 years. I just don't get the MXA hate. Is Jody a cranky old curmudgeon ? Probably,lol. But , he still knows his shit, and they conduct their tests much better,longer and more thorough than any other of the magazines. That being said, I'd be happy to read a review from any source you feel is superior that any of you 'haters' would like to post.
As a side note, yes I'm an MXA fan, and I'm really glad they are still around after all these years.
Posts: 11467
Joined: 12/28/2008
Location: Wildomar, CA USA
The opinion of how testing and shootouts are done is the nearly the same length as the opinions on the bikes themselves...
MXA shootout: 6,891 words 38,759 characters total size - 2,541 words 14,062 characters of that is talking about how they test, why they don't like going to bike intros outside SoCal, who should read theres and why, along with dealing with media pr reps.
Vital Shootout: 24,214 words 129,840 characters total size - 1,180 words 6,521 characters of that is intro, dyno charts, and bike weights...then you dive right into opinions on the bike.
For taking so long to get it out...it doesn't offer as much detail as say ours or Keefers...especially since in either of ours we share our test rider's individual comments so you can see/hear how people differ in opinion. MXA's is what I term as a "we test"...we think this, we think that...
"We don't always agree."
I'm not saying their's isn't worth reading, unlike their stance on being the only ones that are right...
Posts: 1731
Joined: 8/25/2015
Location: Mansfield, OH USA
does anyone even buy MXA? They had such a good video format with cool graphics and did sum up the key points of the bikes. But shooting down other shootouts by saying if they didnt choose KTM then theyre wrong, is wrong. That screams bias. Shit like that is why i turned off cable news. Doesnt belong in motocross.
2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600
Posts: 4163
Joined: 9/21/2011
Location: Sacramento, CA USA
Posts: 9303
Joined: 1/4/2014
Location: FIN
ML512 wrote:
The opinion of how testing and shootouts are done is the nearly the same length as the opinions on the bikes themselves...
MXA shootout: 6,891 words 38,759 characters total size - 2,541 words 14,062 characters of that is talking about how they test, why they don't like going to bike intros outside SoCal, who should read theres and why, along with dealing with media pr reps.
Vital Shootout: 24,214 words 129,840 characters total size - 1,180 words 6,521 characters of that is intro, dyno charts, and bike weights...then you dive right into opinions on the bike.
For taking so long to get it out...it doesn't offer as much detail as say ours or Keefers...especially since in either of ours we share our test rider's individual comments so you can see/hear how people differ in opinion. MXA's is what I term as a "we test"...we think this, we think that...
"We don't always agree."
I'm not saying their's isn't worth reading, unlike their stance on being the only ones that are right...
Yeah.
This is my take on it. MXA is still alive because of "older" people that still think it's the shit.
I can't see any other reason to it when there are obviously better publications.
Posts: 1903
Joined: 7/9/2015
Location: Saint Marys, OH USA
Posts: 11467
Joined: 12/28/2008
Location: Wildomar, CA USA
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah.
This is my take on it. MXA is still alive because of "older" people that still think it's the shit.
I can't see any other reason to it when there are obviously better publications.
One thing that will continue to hold them back is developing and holding a Shootout for print purposes...
In a magazine, you can only create so much content as there's a required content to ad ratio that print lives by. That's why some magazines have become so small...the amount of content they will publish is dictated by how many pages of ads they have to run in each issue. If they are running on a 60/40 ratio, for every 60 pages of content there needs to be 40 pages worth of ads. Our Shootout alone would eat up the majority of a magazine, especially if it was laid out with as many photos and charts as we use...
Other print publications choose to publish their shootouts online first, knowing that waiting to put them in print (few weeks delay of laying them out, printing, and mailing) murders the value it can reach with a much larger online audience. By example, our 450 Shootout currently has more onsite views than MXA even has subscribers for print. Video wise, on YouTube, ours has around 6.5 times as many views (nearly 240k) as their video does...we're nearly double the next closest outlet. This was also done with our channel having less than 1/10th the subscribers of MXA's channel on YouTube, 1/8th the amount of DirtBike's YouTube subscribers...and 1/23th of Transworld's channel.
I'm quite proud that our Shootout has been seen worldwide by over 300,000 people...including being hosted in a Finish and British motocross magazine.
Posts: 4163
Joined: 9/21/2011
Location: Sacramento, CA USA
Rockinar wrote:
KTM Action Magazine
eric513anderson wrote:
Reason #1 why I’m not renewing my subscription
The truth hurts. I said the same thing back in '01. Yamaha Action. Before that it was Honda Action. Don't recall it ever being called Suzuki or Kawasaki action though.
Posts: 503
Joined: 1/16/2018
Location: USA
Posts: 5945
Joined: 5/27/2011
Location: Newcastle, AUS
Posts: 8882
Joined: 10/31/2009
Location: CA, USA
Rockinar wrote:
KTM Action Magazine
I used to think that was harsh, then I saw their Glen Helens photos were always of KTM/Huskys (plus, to be fair, their own riders, their mates and very few of others that may be on a Japanese bike) I have now not bothered going to their site. Just my view, obviously not trying to say everyone should agree with that view.
Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L
Posts: 4163
Joined: 9/21/2011
Location: Sacramento, CA USA
Rockinar wrote:
KTM Action Magazine
kiwifan wrote:
I used to think that was harsh, then I saw their Glen Helens photos were always of KTM/Huskys (plus, to be fair, their own riders, their mates and very few of others that may be on a Japanese bike) I have now not bothered going to their site. Just my view, obviously not trying to say everyone should agree with that view.
Who was the harshest critic of KTM in the 90's and early 2000's?
Posts: 497
Joined: 8/1/2009
Location: Caloundra, AUS
I like their shootouts.
They seem unbiased to me. (My most modern MX bike is a YZF, btw)
Not afraid to call a spade, a spade.
Their journalistic style and editorial content is a matter of personal taste.
Their stance and evaluation of air forks has been fairly prophetic. Most other publications were on the airfork band wagon. Ignoring the average rider. IMHO.
I like that they actually weigh the test bikes.
I like that they are open about weak spots, and fixes. (KTM foot peg springs, Husky clutch slave cylinders, for eg)
Their magazine app is below par, but I keep subscribing.
Viv la difference
Posts: 490
Joined: 4/1/2008
Location: Kingwood, TX USA
Been reading there stuff since 1973 and continue to do so. Don’t always agree with them nor always follow their advice but I think they are fair and I use what I read there to make up my own mind.
Posts: 9303
Joined: 1/4/2014
Location: FIN
ML512 wrote:
The opinion of how testing and shootouts are done is the nearly the same length as the opinions on the bikes themselves...
MXA shootout: 6,891 words 38,759 characters total size - 2,541 words 14,062 characters of that is talking about how they test, why they don't like going to bike intros outside SoCal, who should read theres and why, along with dealing with media pr reps.
Vital Shootout: 24,214 words 129,840 characters total size - 1,180 words 6,521 characters of that is intro, dyno charts, and bike weights...then you dive right into opinions on the bike.
For taking so long to get it out...it doesn't offer as much detail as say ours or Keefers...especially since in either of ours we share our test rider's individual comments so you can see/hear how people differ in opinion. MXA's is what I term as a "we test"...we think this, we think that...
"We don't always agree."
I'm not saying their's isn't worth reading, unlike their stance on being the only ones that are right...Motofinne wrote:
Yeah.
This is my take on it. MXA is still alive because of "older" people that still think it's the shit.
I can't see any other reason to it when there are obviously better publications.ML512 wrote:
One thing that will continue to hold them back is developing and holding a Shootout for print purposes...
In a magazine, you can only create so much content as there's a required content to ad ratio that print lives by. That's why some magazines have become so small...the amount of content they will publish is dictated by how many pages of ads they have to run in each issue. If they are running on a 60/40 ratio, for every 60 pages of content there needs to be 40 pages worth of ads. Our Shootout alone would eat up the majority of a magazine, especially if it was laid out with as many photos and charts as we use...
Other print publications choose to publish their shootouts online first, knowing that waiting to put them in print (few weeks delay of laying them out, printing, and mailing) murders the value it can reach with a much larger online audience. By example, our 450 Shootout currently has more onsite views than MXA even has subscribers for print. Video wise, on YouTube, ours has around 6.5 times as many views (nearly 240k) as their video does...we're nearly double the next closest outlet. This was also done with our channel having less than 1/10th the subscribers of MXA's channel on YouTube, 1/8th the amount of DirtBike's YouTube subscribers...and 1/23th of Transworld's channel.
I'm quite proud that our Shootout has been seen worldwide by over 300,000 people...including being hosted in a Finish and British motocross magazine.
Yeah and my father that is over 70 years old enjoyed the Vital/OffroadPro shootout that he read in OffroadPro! Keep that up!
Posts: 3653
Joined: 4/1/2008
Location: TN, USA
MXA has been spot on with their tests. So many "bros" on here think it's cool to be negative toward them.
Take it to the limit, one more time!
Posts: 1130
Joined: 11/9/2009
Location: Avonmore, PA USA
Ted722 wrote:
Who was the harshest critic of KTM in the 90's and early 2000's?
Only because it was a well-deserved truth then.... And yes ,I remember a short period when they were called Zook Action for awhile in the late 70's. (correct, I am "older"Motofinne,lol) But you're right Ted, I never remember any "Kawi Action" complaints. Any time that a mfg builds a superior machine and wins shootouts for two or three straight years ,it ruffles everyones feathers. its the way its always been and most likely always will be.
Vitals shootouts are very well done as well, but to bust on guys that been doing tests for longer than most Vitards have been alive is just a bit weak. I realize that Jody has pissed in a lot of Wheaties bowls over the years,(particularly in the SoCa area) but MXA is still a good read, and experience is a great asset. Again.....just my opinion
Posts: 1514
Joined: 1/4/2013
Location: QLD, AUS
I agree it did sound negative, but I also heard from both keefer and vital this year about how no one could be better than there's, because they use so many riders at so many different tracks. Etc etc. Where mxa differs is that they have printed it into their text.
Posts: 3653
Joined: 4/1/2008
Location: TN, USA
Edited Date/Time:
Like the avatar oldpro277! I see Turner and Stacey, but not sure on the others. Ogden?
Take it to the limit, one more time!
Posts: 722
Joined: 8/10/2008
Location: Mission Viejo, CA USA
My only criticism is that they seem to test exclusively at Glen Helen which would tend to lead to a biased set of results.
Bret Bonham
Posts: 11
Joined: 4/2/2013
Location: OR, USA
"We are compelled to take care of our 2018 test bikes because we use them for individual tests, shootouts, how-tos, product tests and all manner of informational articles about that particular model. Thus, MXA keeps its test bikes stock. We don’t re-valve the forks or shock, unless it’s trying to kill us. We don’t race with aftermarket exhausts, unless we are testing that pipe for another article (and it comes off the bike as soon as the pipe test is done). We do, however, make changes to any problem area that must be addressed for the good of the bike or well-being of the test riders. MXA will change the gearing, add stiffer clutch springs, increase or decrease spring rates, raise or lower oil heights, remap the engine (without changing black boxes) and change bars if the majority of test riders agree on a different bend.
For 2018 we remapped the Yamaha YZ450F and Kawasaki KX450F; put stiffer clutch springs in the KX450F, Suzuki RM-Z450 and Honda CRF450; raised the fork-oil height on the RM-Z450; put lower bar mounts on the YZ450F; added a higher-pressure radiator cap to the CRF450; ran a longer shock link on the RM-Z450; updated the KX450F chain guide to a TM Designworks chain guide; put a Husqvarna FC250 muffler on the FC450 to get rid of the restrictive ice-cream-cone baffles; and changed the gearing on virtually every bike to suit the tastes of test riders or the demands of the tracks."
Uhm... hmm..... ok. Whatever.
Posts: 4103
Joined: 4/1/2008
Location: USA
Posts: 11467
Joined: 12/28/2008
Location: Wildomar, CA USA
Edited Date/Time:
fullysicmate wrote:
I agree it did sound negative, but I also heard from both keefer and vital this year about how no one could be better than there's, because they use so many riders at so many different tracks. Etc etc. Where mxa differs is that they have printed it into their text.
Ehh... I implore everyone to read every Shootout possible because they all hold a lot of value. I feel like I did a damn good job with ours, in the sense I'm proud of the work we put in and how little sleep I got getting it up and posted. But in the end, our thoughts on the bikes are opinions and I could never say or think our opinion is the best. I think everyone makes solid points in there respective Shootouts and off the top of my head, there's only one US-based Shootout that I don't recommend....due to some extreme inconsistencies.
My comments in this thread are more-or-less my own frustration with them labeling theirs as the most thorough, the most prestigious, etc...I like more of a transparent approach but that's my own opinion.
