Neck Brace WARS?

mattmoto441
Edited Date/Time 2/27/2014 6:33pm
Well i just noticed that Jake Weimer Switched back to the Astar neck brace over the Atlas brace he wore last weekend. so that got me looking for the Atlas website and i found this

Leatt Sues Atlas Brace

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120131/Leatt-sues-Atlas-for-infringe…
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pacetruckdrvr
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pacetruckdrvr 2/12/2012 6:43pm
2/12/2012 6:43pm
I was thinking recently about something like this happening, how many different variations of a neck brace can be made before they start to resemble one another?
Cody24
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Cody24 2/12/2012 7:25pm
2/12/2012 7:25pm
I was going to say the same thing. Why did Jake switch back? Anyone know?
bryan
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bryan 2/12/2012 7:36pm
2/12/2012 7:36pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2012 7:37pm
newmann
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newmann 2/12/2012 8:14pm
2/12/2012 8:14pm
Pre-production? Already changing them up from what they've been advertising and selling? Yet vitalites still keep ragging on Leatt.

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Bronson905
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Bronson905 2/12/2012 10:29pm
2/12/2012 10:29pm
bryan wrote:
[img]http://f.cl.ly/items/3Q2E2f162z1a0K2g2C2e/Screen%20Shot%202012-02-12%20at%207.36.26%20PM.png[/img]
Then why was Kyle Beaton wearing a different neck brace (Leatt) in SD too?
Jono
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Jono 2/13/2012 3:35am
2/13/2012 3:35am
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie too..
mx317
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mx317 2/13/2012 3:45am
2/13/2012 3:45am
Jono wrote:
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie...
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie too..
That's what this thread is about, Leatt has sued them.
Jono
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Jono 2/13/2012 4:08am
2/13/2012 4:08am
Jono wrote:
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie...
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie too..
mx317 wrote:
That's what this thread is about, Leatt has sued them.
Not for royalties, for infringement of a patent.
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BW84 2/13/2012 5:20am
2/13/2012 5:20am
Jono wrote:
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie...
Why doesn't Leatt sue them and try get royalties? That way other companies can continue to make neck braces and Leatt gets some of the pie too..
mx317 wrote:
That's what this thread is about, Leatt has sued them.
Jono wrote:
Not for royalties, for infringement of a patent.
That made me laugh. You don't sue for royalties, you sue over patents and royalties get worked out as a deal to avoid injunctions. The Astars brace appears to be a closer copy to the Leatt than the Atlas.
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ToolMaker 2/13/2012 7:57am
2/13/2012 7:57am
mx317 wrote:
That's what this thread is about, Leatt has sued them.
Jono wrote:
Not for royalties, for infringement of a patent.
BW84 wrote:
That made me laugh. You don't sue for royalties, you sue over patents and royalties get worked out as a deal to avoid injunctions. The Astars...
That made me laugh. You don't sue for royalties, you sue over patents and royalties get worked out as a deal to avoid injunctions. The Astars brace appears to be a closer copy to the Leatt than the Atlas.
They may have already worked out a deal that we do not know of. Alpinestar may even have their own patents (which does not mean they don't infring leatt's patents). There probably is a label on the product or packaging which lists the patent #s they are covered by. We would have to check to see if the leatt # is listed. Otherwise it might just be a hush hush deal.
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loftyair 2/13/2012 8:32am
2/13/2012 8:32am
Costs Leatt money to sue, costs others to be sued by Leatt. Guess who's paying for it either way! Too broad a patent is easy to get past, so is too detailed a patent. When you buy Leatt, you are paying for the brand and product associated with it. Like buying a helmet, do you buy an Arai, or the wal-mart special? I'm glad to see company's not suing each other, saves us money. Imagine Shoei suing all other helmet makers because they got a patent somehow in there somewhere. JMO, but it makes Leatt look real bad to me. Like a play-ground bully. Hey Leatt, what if some of us don't want a Leatt? Why can't we decide? If you make the best product, what are you scared of?
moto543
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moto543 2/13/2012 9:23am
2/13/2012 9:23am
loftyair wrote:
Costs Leatt money to sue, costs others to be sued by Leatt. Guess who's paying for it either way! Too broad a patent is easy to...
Costs Leatt money to sue, costs others to be sued by Leatt. Guess who's paying for it either way! Too broad a patent is easy to get past, so is too detailed a patent. When you buy Leatt, you are paying for the brand and product associated with it. Like buying a helmet, do you buy an Arai, or the wal-mart special? I'm glad to see company's not suing each other, saves us money. Imagine Shoei suing all other helmet makers because they got a patent somehow in there somewhere. JMO, but it makes Leatt look real bad to me. Like a play-ground bully. Hey Leatt, what if some of us don't want a Leatt? Why can't we decide? If you make the best product, what are you scared of?
So what you're saying is - if you spent millions of dollars and years of your life inventing, marketing and selling a product that you patented and built a company around it, you wouldn't mind if I stole some of your ideas, reverse engineered it and sold it to make money for myself? I'm willing to bet you'ld have a lawyer in face before long and would be doing the same as Leatt is doing. They aren't suing Atlas for making a neck brace but because some of the braces parts have been copied. Do you really think if Shoei or Arai found a company had stolen their intelectual property, that they wouldn't take action?
loftyair
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loftyair 2/13/2012 9:31am
2/13/2012 9:31am
loftyair wrote:
Costs Leatt money to sue, costs others to be sued by Leatt. Guess who's paying for it either way! Too broad a patent is easy to...
Costs Leatt money to sue, costs others to be sued by Leatt. Guess who's paying for it either way! Too broad a patent is easy to get past, so is too detailed a patent. When you buy Leatt, you are paying for the brand and product associated with it. Like buying a helmet, do you buy an Arai, or the wal-mart special? I'm glad to see company's not suing each other, saves us money. Imagine Shoei suing all other helmet makers because they got a patent somehow in there somewhere. JMO, but it makes Leatt look real bad to me. Like a play-ground bully. Hey Leatt, what if some of us don't want a Leatt? Why can't we decide? If you make the best product, what are you scared of?
moto543 wrote:
So what you're saying is - if you spent millions of dollars and years of your life inventing, marketing and selling a product that you patented...
So what you're saying is - if you spent millions of dollars and years of your life inventing, marketing and selling a product that you patented and built a company around it, you wouldn't mind if I stole some of your ideas, reverse engineered it and sold it to make money for myself? I'm willing to bet you'ld have a lawyer in face before long and would be doing the same as Leatt is doing. They aren't suing Atlas for making a neck brace but because some of the braces parts have been copied. Do you really think if Shoei or Arai found a company had stolen their intelectual property, that they wouldn't take action?
You don't think that happens anyway? Some things can't and/or shouldn't be patented anyway. The copy-cats usually sell their products cheap, and they are cheap. So do you buy quality or not? Costs Leatt more to sue than not and let the copy-cats sell the cheap stuff. Or, if someone makes a better 'copy', then good for us!
CamP
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CamP 2/13/2012 9:50am
2/13/2012 9:50am
The copy-cat companies should approach Leatt for a licensing agreement before they attempt produce a neck brace. The ones that don't do that should get sued.
moto543
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moto543 2/13/2012 9:54am
2/13/2012 9:54am
Yes, I realize it happens, but the point is if someone steals something you worked for they deserve to get what they have coming. Would you let someone dip into your wallet? It doesn't affect me so who cares, right? hey mabe he'll split it with us, so "then good for us!"
Slow450
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Slow450 2/13/2012 9:56am
2/13/2012 9:56am
It is weird that it they're going after a company that from a Layman's perspective has progressed the furthest from the original (Leatt) design. Plus they are selling for a relative price. Why not go after EVS, it seems that would make more sense. What am I missing.
mattmoto441 2/13/2012 2:15pm
2/13/2012 2:15pm
the only thing you have to do to get around a patent is for your product to be 10% different then the product your are trying to copy . to me the atlas is more then 10% different. that is prolly why they are counter suing, saying hey we are close but not 100%
CamP
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CamP 2/13/2012 3:50pm
2/13/2012 3:50pm
How many neck braces would be on the market today if Leatt never invented it?

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Mr. Ted
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Mr. Ted 2/13/2012 4:34pm
2/13/2012 4:34pm
I've had some discussion with the Atlas guys about a product I am trying to produce and they are very knowledgable on the patent process and what it takes to get a patent, etc. Now I don't know what patents Leatt has, but after talking to the guys at Atlas they didn't strike me as rip-off artists or being naive to what patent infringement would consist of. It is my opinion that they believe their product is unique and unlike Leatt, certainly enough that they don't feel they are infringing on patents, I would assume.
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motomike137 2/13/2012 4:40pm
2/13/2012 4:40pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
I've had some discussion with the Atlas guys about a product I am trying to produce and they are very knowledgable on the patent process and...
I've had some discussion with the Atlas guys about a product I am trying to produce and they are very knowledgable on the patent process and what it takes to get a patent, etc. Now I don't know what patents Leatt has, but after talking to the guys at Atlas they didn't strike me as rip-off artists or being naive to what patent infringement would consist of. It is my opinion that they believe their product is unique and unlike Leatt, certainly enough that they don't feel they are infringing on patents, I would assume.
Of course they believe their brace is unique enough and Leatt doesn't think so. Therefore it ends up in court and/or company B goes back to the drawing board to design in some more differentiation and it sounds like that is what Atlas is doing.
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Mr. Ted 2/13/2012 4:45pm
2/13/2012 4:45pm
Well you can't really prevent anyone from suing you either. Whether it is justified or not. Not saying Leatt doesn't feel its justified, either, just that its a matter of perception.
mattmoto441 2/13/2012 4:50pm
2/13/2012 4:50pm
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to go after that fish
Sherwood
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Sherwood 2/13/2012 4:53pm
2/13/2012 4:53pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
I've had some discussion with the Atlas guys about a product I am trying to produce and they are very knowledgable on the patent process and...
I've had some discussion with the Atlas guys about a product I am trying to produce and they are very knowledgable on the patent process and what it takes to get a patent, etc. Now I don't know what patents Leatt has, but after talking to the guys at Atlas they didn't strike me as rip-off artists or being naive to what patent infringement would consist of. It is my opinion that they believe their product is unique and unlike Leatt, certainly enough that they don't feel they are infringing on patents, I would assume.
You don't have to be trying to rip someone off to do it by accident.
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motomike137 2/13/2012 4:56pm
2/13/2012 4:56pm
mattmoto441 wrote:
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to...
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to go after that fish
And maybe Astars is paying or paid Leatt some cash? Not accusing and don't know but lots of things happen out there in the business world that we don't know about.
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moto543 2/13/2012 5:15pm
2/13/2012 5:15pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 5:16pm
mattmoto441 wrote:
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to...
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to go after that fish
Leatt already did that. When Alpinestars started running prototypes at the races, Leatt took them to court and won, so no, they aren't scared of the "big fish".
mattmoto441 2/13/2012 5:21pm
2/13/2012 5:21pm
mattmoto441 wrote:
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to...
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to go after that fish
moto543 wrote:
Leatt already did that. When Alpinestars started running prototypes at the races, Leatt took them to court and won, so no, they aren't scared of the...
Leatt already did that. When Alpinestars started running prototypes at the races, Leatt took them to court and won, so no, they aren't scared of the "big fish".
didnt know that, but the astar has been unchanged since its release so not sure what leatt got outta that?

also look at the new evs brace think they are gonna go after them as well?
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Sherwood 2/13/2012 5:22pm
2/13/2012 5:22pm
mattmoto441 wrote:
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to...
i would think leatt could or would sue Astars for their brace but Astars has a wallet so big it wouldnt be a good idea to go after that fish
moto543 wrote:
Leatt already did that. When Alpinestars started running prototypes at the races, Leatt took them to court and won, so no, they aren't scared of the...
Leatt already did that. When Alpinestars started running prototypes at the races, Leatt took them to court and won, so no, they aren't scared of the "big fish".
mattmoto441 wrote:
didnt know that, but the astar has been unchanged since its release so not sure what leatt got outta that? also look at the new evs...
didnt know that, but the astar has been unchanged since its release so not sure what leatt got outta that?

also look at the new evs brace think they are gonna go after them as well?
Cha-ching... THats what.
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muGz.147 2/13/2012 5:26pm
2/13/2012 5:26pm
#holeshotdevice #tamer #lawsuit
Cody24
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Cody24 2/13/2012 5:27pm
2/13/2012 5:27pm
I was wondering the same thing, why wouldn't Leatt be going after Alpinestar instead of Atlas? The Atlas looks nothing like the Leatt.
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haydos25 2/13/2012 5:45pm
2/13/2012 5:45pm
Cody24 wrote:
I was wondering the same thing, why wouldn't Leatt be going after Alpinestar instead of Atlas? The Atlas looks nothing like the Leatt.
They already did. Who knows how much they got, or are still getting, if anything at all.

All i do know is that if i was Leatt i'd do the exact same thing. They pioneered the market and did all the research to come up with the design in the first place, i'd be protecting my intellectual property to the death.

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