National tracks.

mxjon454
Profile picture for user mxjon454
Posts
1448
Joined
10/27/2009
Location
Menifee, CA US
mxjon454
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
|
legswag
Profile picture for user legswag
Posts
107
Joined
5/23/2016
Location
Pomona, CA US
legswag 6/27/2016 9:20pm
6/27/2016 9:20pm
Probably too much effort plus the entire property would be destroyed (trees, etc)
sixtwentyeight 6/27/2016 9:20pm
6/27/2016 9:20pm
I wish they would change venues every now and then. Maybe offer some different tracks every year or few years. I do think certain tracks get some changes though.
legswag
Profile picture for user legswag
Posts
107
Joined
5/23/2016
Location
Pomona, CA US
legswag 6/27/2016 9:22pm
6/27/2016 9:22pm
I think the races should be on Sunday
Tarz483
Profile picture for user Tarz483
Posts
6352
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN US
Fantasy
665th
Tarz483 6/27/2016 9:23pm
6/27/2016 9:23pm
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks
And different types of Dirt
Im really happy to see
We got a good Sand track back on the schedule.

I wish they would run the Tracks in Reverse
Some years that would change it up a Bit

The Shop

See All »
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 6/27/2016 9:33pm
6/27/2016 9:33pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks And different types of Dirt Im really happy to see We got a good Sand track back...
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks
And different types of Dirt
Im really happy to see
We got a good Sand track back on the schedule.

I wish they would run the Tracks in Reverse
Some years that would change it up a Bit
You'll be doubly happy then as Southwick is going back again to how it was!
mxjon454
Profile picture for user mxjon454
Posts
1448
Joined
10/27/2009
Location
Menifee, CA US
mxjon454 6/27/2016 9:34pm
6/27/2016 9:34pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
They have a year to do changes to the track when they host a national. IMO they can switch up sections and run the track in reverse like others have mentioned without ruining much. At least try and change it up. Seems like they do t rven try to change it up besides glen helen. But glen helen goes overboard on some of their stuff.
mxjon454
Profile picture for user mxjon454
Posts
1448
Joined
10/27/2009
Location
Menifee, CA US
mxjon454 6/27/2016 9:37pm
6/27/2016 9:37pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its about a 40 min drive from my house lol). But add some different venues and try different things.
Moto810
Profile picture for user Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV US
Moto810 6/27/2016 9:38pm
6/27/2016 9:38pm
It is difficult to change the layout of the track but they could mix up a certain section of jumps each year. However keep in mind the attendance is much lower these days than back in the early 2000's. I wonder if money is also an issue with tracks upgrading as few do anymore.
Tarz483
Profile picture for user Tarz483
Posts
6352
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN US
Fantasy
665th
Tarz483 6/27/2016 9:41pm
6/27/2016 9:41pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
mxjon454 wrote:
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its...
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its about a 40 min drive from my house lol). But add some different venues and try different things.
+Millville
Tarz483
Profile picture for user Tarz483
Posts
6352
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN US
Fantasy
665th
Tarz483 6/27/2016 9:42pm
6/27/2016 9:42pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks And different types of Dirt Im really happy to see We got a good Sand track back...
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks
And different types of Dirt
Im really happy to see
We got a good Sand track back on the schedule.

I wish they would run the Tracks in Reverse
Some years that would change it up a Bit
Crush wrote:
You'll be doubly happy then as Southwick is going back again to how it was!
Yes looking forward to it
Id love to go in person
Ive never been to that 1
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8294
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2231st
early 6/27/2016 9:43pm
6/27/2016 9:43pm
I like Saturday races and the schedule has the strongest lineup of tracks maybe ever. Everyones got an opinion.
KirkChandler
Profile picture for user KirkChandler
Posts
1667
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA US
Fantasy
278th
KirkChandler 6/27/2016 9:43pm
6/27/2016 9:43pm
Because you have a TV production crew that needs to set up shots and when it is the same year after year the TV crews, track crews, etc know where to place Cameras, signage, timing loops, etc.

Small changes can be adapted to easily. But massive changes are not welcomed. Sometimes tracks add a section that would need an extra camera or two, which seems simple, but that means another camera operator, another lift, another thousand feet of cable or so. All of that is extra cost.

Also for tracks that have permanent spectator fencing it would be a huge cost increase to move the fencing around.

Also the Kawasaki track map would be wayyyyyyy off. Lol
sixtwentyeight 6/27/2016 10:12pm
6/27/2016 10:12pm
I'm from southwestern PA and have been to high point many times but it's become long in tooth for me. I never thought the place was that great from a spectator perspective. Steel city was better for that because you could see more of the track. I find it hard to believe florida doesn't have a national. It would be nice to have more than one sand track on the schedule. I wouldn't mind seeing a hard pack track kinda like carlsbad either.
zehn
Profile picture for user zehn
Posts
7273
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
zehn 6/27/2016 10:19pm
6/27/2016 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2016 10:19pm
The only change they need to make to the tracks is to add the Flying Iron Horse Ranch to the schedule.
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 6/28/2016 4:09am
6/28/2016 4:09am
I think we are damn lucky to get what we get.

The amount of work it takes to put on one is just huge.

The tv production has to be a nightmare of wires,guys on sissor lifts all day.

The amount of flat ground needed to set up all the pits and midway.
Markopolo400
Profile picture for user Markopolo400
Posts
1380
Joined
7/24/2012
Location
St. Paul-ish, MN US
Markopolo400 6/28/2016 6:58am
6/28/2016 6:58am
Tarz483 wrote:
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks And different types of Dirt Im really happy to see We got a good Sand track back...
I always like seeing the guys Ride different tracks
And different types of Dirt
Im really happy to see
We got a good Sand track back on the schedule.

I wish they would run the Tracks in Reverse
Some years that would change it up a Bit
Back in the day Budds Creek would run backwards every other year, then they stopped for some reason.
mxtech1
Profile picture for user mxtech1
Posts
1958
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
mxtech1 6/28/2016 7:31am
6/28/2016 7:31am
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
I'm going to assume you've never actually taken part in helping maintain or build a track. Just to keep a track maintained to "amateur" level is grueling, non-stop work. Do you have any idea how difficult it is and how much prep work is required to tune a facility up to host a National? It doesn't sound like you do. Most of these facilities spend weeks preparing for a national.

Even just adding a small new section is significant work. You have to remember that for insurance reasons, all of the track has to be fenced off. Lanes have to be made for water truck access and it also has to be serviceable for the tillage equipment. In addition, you have to keep it as spectator friendly as possible while ensuring lap times are acceptable to the schedules.

And don't forget most of the tracks on the schedule race all season

Pit Row

See All »
Mr. Info
Profile picture for user Mr. Info
Posts
1672
Joined
5/3/2010
Location
Perris, CA US
Mr. Info 6/28/2016 8:22am
6/28/2016 8:22am
I think this question is best answered by Davey. Myself and others could answer with our opinion but I don't think that's needed when the correct answer is there not just my guess.
sixtwentyeight 6/28/2016 9:02am
6/28/2016 9:02am
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
I just watched a video of that place...looks amazing! I would love to ride that track!
BroFoSho
Profile picture for user BroFoSho
Posts
742
Joined
9/26/2013
Location
Tucson, AZ US
BroFoSho 6/28/2016 12:21pm
6/28/2016 12:21pm
Tracks spend a huge amount of money to host a national. I'm sure they do everything in their power to keep costs down as much as possible. Adding a jump here and there is easy, but adding a whole new section would cost many thousands of dollars.

Changing locations each year would be a hard sell as well. I remember Glen Helen went off the schedule in 2010 because they were only offered a one-year deal but wanted a multiple-year contract to guarantee they would have a national for years to come. Why sink in $500,000 into facility operations/renovations when you might not get a national the next year?
mx836
Profile picture for user mx836
Posts
5579
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
; BF
mx836 6/28/2016 12:28pm
6/28/2016 12:28pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
mxjon454 wrote:
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its...
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its about a 40 min drive from my house lol). But add some different venues and try different things.
Tarz483 wrote:
+Millville
+ High point. Nationals been going there for 40 years. They are all prestigious except Tennessee and Indiana. I've been to both and I'd rather keep Indiana.
mx836
Profile picture for user mx836
Posts
5579
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
; BF
mx836 6/28/2016 12:35pm
6/28/2016 12:35pm
sixtwentyeight wrote:
I'm from southwestern PA and have been to high point many times but it's become long in tooth for me. I never thought the place was...
I'm from southwestern PA and have been to high point many times but it's become long in tooth for me. I never thought the place was that great from a spectator perspective. Steel city was better for that because you could see more of the track. I find it hard to believe florida doesn't have a national. It would be nice to have more than one sand track on the schedule. I wouldn't mind seeing a hard pack track kinda like carlsbad either.
High Point has the best viewing of any national I've been to, which is quite a few. If it wasn't for a sea of ez-ups, you'd damn near be able to see the whole track. I understand you not getting that excited. I've gone to Red Bud so much lately that I don't really care if I go this year or not. Still want it on the schedule though. It's a huge part of American motocross.

Ditch Muddy Creek and bring back Steel City. I'd be happy with those tracks for the next 10 years. The history behind the tracks is part of what makes the Nationals so cool. Be careful what you wish for. Could end up with a bunch of shit tracks like Qatar.
sixtwentyeight 6/28/2016 1:45pm
6/28/2016 1:45pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2016 1:53pm
From what I understand steel city in no longer in existence. What i heard was the track was closed for environmental reasons or something . I could be wrong thou.
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
10691
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 6/28/2016 1:52pm
6/28/2016 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 6/28/2016 1:55pm
I would scrap the Muddy Creek race. Fun track on MX simulator but not that great in real life.

But the biggest thing for me is the lack of diversity when it comes to the surfaces. There are so many different surfaces in the GPs and that is a huge factor when it comes to tire choices and results. The US national tracks are almost like carbon copies of each other and that equals that roughly the same riders will win and be in the top 5. Southwick coming back is really good since it will be the only "sand" race.
malachi177
Profile picture for user malachi177
Posts
2281
Joined
12/18/2010
Location
B.C., BC CA
malachi177 6/28/2016 5:31pm
6/28/2016 5:31pm
mxjon454 wrote:
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its...
Same here. I think keep some of the prestigous tracks on like unadilla, southwick, red bud, and glen helen (im biased with glen helen since its about a 40 min drive from my house lol). But add some different venues and try different things.
Tarz483 wrote:
+Millville
mx836 wrote:
+ High point. Nationals been going there for 40 years. They are all prestigious except Tennessee and Indiana. I've been to both and I'd rather keep...
+ High point. Nationals been going there for 40 years. They are all prestigious except Tennessee and Indiana. I've been to both and I'd rather keep Indiana.
+ Washougal
OldYZRider1
Profile picture for user OldYZRider1
Posts
848
Joined
7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL US
OldYZRider1 6/29/2016 6:52pm
6/29/2016 6:52pm
A lot of tracks in the midwest face erosion problems from heavy rainfall. You need to control the water runoff to keep the good dirt where you want it and not have it get washed away from your property. I think many of these tracks have evolved layouts over the years that help them minimize erosion issues. They may have trouble deviating from the layout much so their water control stays effective.
yak651
Profile picture for user yak651
Posts
6706
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
192nd
yak651 6/29/2016 7:04pm
6/29/2016 7:04pm
Back in the late '80 and early '90s (maybe earlier than that but that's when I started racing...) 2 of my favorite tracks in WI would turn the direction every other race. Made the anticipation of going to the race a little more as knowing it was going to be different. Then they went away from that, guess too much work...
Would think the nationals tracks would be able to change it up, the outspoken riders like Reed agree that the tracks are stale and they haven't been doing much to change them year to year
mxjon454
Profile picture for user mxjon454
Posts
1448
Joined
10/27/2009
Location
Menifee, CA US
mxjon454 6/29/2016 8:18pm
6/29/2016 8:18pm
mxjon454 wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they...
I dont know if this has been covered before, but why is that the national tracks get very minimal changes over the years? Why dont they get complete redisgned tracks every year like supercross? It seems like some of these tracks have the exact same design for mulitple years save for maybe taking out or adding a double here and there.
mxtech1 wrote:
I'm going to assume you've never actually taken part in helping maintain or build a track. Just to keep a track maintained to "amateur" level is...
I'm going to assume you've never actually taken part in helping maintain or build a track. Just to keep a track maintained to "amateur" level is grueling, non-stop work. Do you have any idea how difficult it is and how much prep work is required to tune a facility up to host a National? It doesn't sound like you do. Most of these facilities spend weeks preparing for a national.

Even just adding a small new section is significant work. You have to remember that for insurance reasons, all of the track has to be fenced off. Lanes have to be made for water truck access and it also has to be serviceable for the tillage equipment. In addition, you have to keep it as spectator friendly as possible while ensuring lap times are acceptable to the schedules.

And don't forget most of the tracks on the schedule race all season
I acutally have been around track maintenance and when tracks have been built. My dad built perris raceway and maintained it for years and ran a supercross track with a buddy for a couple seasons. So i do know what kind of prep goes into track changes etc...so yes i do know what kind of work goes into it, not at a national level, but at an amateur level. But these are the biggest races in motocross in the U.S. and if they have to shut down the track for a week or 2 weeks to make bigger changes then so be it. Its their most important race of the year for those tracks. I get the tv schedule and where to place cameras and the wiring and all that comes along with it. I watched muddy creek from 2015 and 2016 and the track was almost exactly the same, save for maybe a couple of small jumps. They can afford to change up some sections. And for the money that goes into it, they make a lot of money for hosting a national. I paid $20 to park my car in the boonies at glen helen. You know how many cars and how much money they made just from parking? A lot and that right there made me mad at how much goes into the purse payout at these races. Last place should make more then $200-300. Im just saying for the biggest races pf the year for this sport you would think that the tracls would be changed and not running almost identical layouts for years and years.

Post a reply to: National tracks.