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Edited Date/Time
3/13/2013 3:35pm
so 2 rds of the mxgp superfinal
anyone want to have discussion on its merits and issues?
A big issue I see is a 250 rider has a big problem with a slower rider on a 450 who is in front of him,
and this spreads the 250 field in an un-natural way.
imo and ime say the slower 450 rider holds the fastest line in a corner and then out drags the 250 to the next corner,
then the 250 rider has to slow down entering the corner more than he normally would, even though the 250 rider would normally pull away from the slower 450 guy if her were in front, essentially holding up the 250 rider.
now if this slower 450 rider was splitting up 2 similar pace 250 riders the guy in front has a great advantage.
i'm really hoping to read some positives.
anyone want to have discussion on its merits and issues?
A big issue I see is a 250 rider has a big problem with a slower rider on a 450 who is in front of him,
and this spreads the 250 field in an un-natural way.
imo and ime say the slower 450 rider holds the fastest line in a corner and then out drags the 250 to the next corner,
then the 250 rider has to slow down entering the corner more than he normally would, even though the 250 rider would normally pull away from the slower 450 guy if her were in front, essentially holding up the 250 rider.
now if this slower 450 rider was splitting up 2 similar pace 250 riders the guy in front has a great advantage.
i'm really hoping to read some positives.
This might suck for the MX2 rider but for the spectator a cool race is going on.
Just saying....
I think it is just a money spinner by Youthstream. Like the night races wtf. Thank god the superfinal is no more. We have the same shit go on in the British Championship
If they hadn't dropped open qualifying and therefore limited rider entry there would be plenty of riders on track, likewise if YS were a bit more sympathetic with regards to the high costs incurred by the riders and teams more riders would travel.
The night race is fine by me. I think it adds a little something extra to the series, even if it is only a novelty event.
The Shop
Each class is racing for points, it's two second motos combined into one race.
no matter where you finish IN the mixed race, you still get the usual points for your class? weather you were 2nd or 20th..
Each class is ranked accordingly.
Herlings is at 100 point right now.
4 wins in MX2 altho he came 7th and 4th in the superfinals.
i was at hawkstone last year and a load of guys were moaning about it, they had obviously got it wrong too lol.
If you're leading the MX2 class, but only 6th in the combined race, you're unlikely to try and pass your way further up the field because there is no real incentive. Its bragging rights only... and that only stands for so much when you''re hot, getting blasted with roost and faced with unnecessary risk.
If you're second 250 (even if you're 13th in the race) you get second place points in the 250 class.
However you get no more points or money for overtaking those different capacity bikes so what's the point in doing so? That's why Herlings cruised on the last lap in Thailand.
And how is it conducive to close racing when your MX2 rival, who is one place in front of you in your class, actually has several other bikes in-between you and him?
I could go on, but there's probably a word limit on these posts...
For the spectator it's different.
Herlings down in turn one and going trough the pack to get to first in his class means he is battling a lot of MX1 riders too.
Sucks for Herlings but very cool to watch.
Remember Lommel?
When the MX2 rider is leading then ofcourse it makes no sense to overtake a MX1 rider, but when he's in whatever other position he might need to overtake a MX1 rider to get to the MX2 rider.
Once again, that sucks for the MX2 riders but gives better racing for the spectator.
(Just to be clear, it absolutely, definitely wasn't in any way to do with the fact that they don't have enough riders. OK?)
GL "The most important advantage for the public and for TV viewers: the new format is easily understandable for everybody, especially for the young and new fans, and big TV broadcasters who are not particularly specialized in Motocross."
"Easily understandable" he said....
Now his story is that "TV only want an hour long programme"
He also said in November that "the number of riders and teams in each class has grown over the last few years and currently the permanent entries for the 2013 MX1 and MX2 Motocross World Championships are full."
Full. Well done. I'm looking forward to seeing 40 riders all year.
It's been 30 riders for a while now.
And really don't get why it's so hard to understand.
TV stations want to see all the good riders in one race and one podium.
Average Joe doesn't give a fuck what bike Herlings or Cairoli is on?
MotoGP had two classes riding in one race last year too and hardly anybody knew about it.
LOL.
but i've obviously heard that it wasn't shown on tv... which is a shame
the best thing they could do would be to have a superfinal at valkenswaard (but they aren't going to i asked), that way people could actually see how they are in person, rather than judging from a tv picture.... but those are the cards that have been dealt and no one here can affect it
the decision will be made it june to see if they run every race in 2014 with a superfinal... guess we'll see what the teams and everyone with power really thinks then
Pit Row
The other positive is that a race with 40 fastest guys is better than a race with 20 fastest guys or 20 fast guys and 20 dangerously slow guys. If they can't get 40 fast guys for each class, then maybe it's better.
But that may mask a larger problem without providing a lasting solution. I think there will be long term negative consequences economically for the 250 guys if they go with the super final permanently, especially if it becomes the the principal presentation for TV. And, after all, we're being told it's necessary and done for TV to create a platform for growth, so whether it's better live may be beside the point. So, to me, there's a risk that the issue of losing qualified riders to make full gates just gets pushed along.
The Thai race certainly came off better to watch than the Qatar race, IMO, but I was pretty excited about it and it's been a bit of a let down.
It honestly feels like the best thing that could happen for the series this year would be to get Herlings out of MX2 and into MX1, and then both classes would be a little more compelling, but I understand that's not going to happen.
Granted The 108% rule means there will no longer be roadblocks out there like back in the day so that has the consequence of ensuring a smaller gate than there otherwise would be, but rather that than dangerous riders like we used to see. Jeffros got it pure and simple, this is about chasing TV with a shorter package. Having seen this attempted solution in practice now Im pretty sure its not the answer.
Open qualifying up again and there would be nonstop action to watch in every class (though not necessarily in Qatar). Youthstream have cut off their nose to spite their face in that regard.
I think a Combined race is a bad representation for an hours TV slot no matter what. A highlights package would be better.
A full gate is no good if half the riders are not up to GP standard tho surely. How many Indonesians do you think would have been within 108% of Tortellis time in the 96 Indonesian GP. 39 riders turned up so they were all guaranteed a place. Remember the story of that guy in the 80s (think it was in Argentina) who rode his bike to the track then raced the GP! lets both agree we can do without that. Prizemoney, travel indemnity and qualification were all in place back then and it didnt solve any of the problems then, those measure can only be less effective at tackling the problem now given the costs associated with racing are increasing exponetially ( it sure seems like it at any rate) Either way you slice it theres a problem with overseas GPs. Oh and I have no idea what the answer is either.....
I think you might be onto something with the highlight package tho. that way you keep all four races for the hardcore motors TV crew MX-life etc, but have something condensed, polished and edited for your asian markets or whatever the fuck is currently being chased....
Why is it hard to understand?
1. Why are there 40 gates? (and every other outdoor series in the world has 40 riders)
2. Why do 2013 FIM rules state 'maximum of 40 riders'? http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/2013_MXWC_WMX_VMX_6520001_en…
3. If 30 is YS's aim why were there 40 MX1 riders at Valkenswaard last year? (But only 25 in Teutschenthal?)
4. Why do they always have more MX2 riders?
5. Why is such a big deal being made by the YS propaganda puppets of how exciting it is to see 40 in the superfinal?
It doesn't sound at all to me like reduced numbers of GP riders is part of the YS master plan. More like they can't get enough riders, for the reasons we all know, then make an excuse to fit.
1. Live scoring on screen is inaccurate with sometimes 4x a rider in it!
2. Live scoring on screen doesn't show a difference between MX2 and MX1 (Only Hardcore fans can figure that out.)
3. The TV broadcasting is on the worst level since AGES! I only watched 1heat from Thailand, the other ones could go the hell because I was so mad!
4. They are talking about a 1 hour program that is good for everybody. But MX isn't on television anymore! ITS ONLY ON PAY TELEVISION, MOSTLY MOTOR THEME PAY TELEVISION!! So they LIKE to watch 4 hours of broadcasting!!
5. Riders are complaining about it on twitter, on national TV. Joel Smets, Kevin Strijbos, Jake Nicholls, Clément Desalle, Glenn Coldenhof, ... They aren't happy with the things at the moment! Why? It is unsafe!
Bye the way how does my friend Luongo explain this to his young and new fans??
1. Explain young and new fans that Clément Desalle won the Grand Prix but got the trophy for second place.
2. Explain young and new fans why Cairoli is riding with 222 when he is last years number 1?!
3. Explain why they where racing in Qatar with only 500 people near the track!
4. Explain why only a few days ago we got the real race schedule for 2013!! The season and budgets are already made!
But O.K, I'll play along.
MotoGP has trouble getting 20 riders on the grid and is successful anyway.
It's not the amount of riders, it's who the riders are.
15 big names and 15 a bit less names get more crowd then 5 big names with 5 bit less names and 30 racers nobody really know........
PS: Maybe a signal that people also wanna see a full starting grid? In MX a full starting gate and not MX1 and MX2 together.
3m 28s
4m 50s
Like running a combined Sprint Cup / Nationwide Nascar race, its a dumb idea at anywhere other than the Des Nations , simply because the points dont matter. MX2 will be dead in a year if it goes like this full time .
4m 50s - cruising on the last lap but faster than his previous two laps and faster than over 80% of everyone elses?
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