Mx bikes need to be tamed

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2/20/2020 2:08 AM

I started the “safety “ thread through concern of injuries/deaths in the sport. Now tentatively I ask another question.
Have mx bikes gone too far? The suspension/power is too much for beginners. When a new rider gets a bike and assumes they must jump a 100 foot jump, is that reasonable? I’m not saying we go back to 3” travel, but should there be limits to performance for some levels of mx?
Limit retail bikes for punters and let pro level riders have what they want. Impossible to implement, agreed. Then limit track obstacles.
And this is where I get flamed... I know America has no gun laws. But we all know children who died on mx bikes. Flame away

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2/20/2020 2:59 AM

If someone releases a 150hp 100kg dirt bike I’ll buy it. No way I need it but 🤷‍♂️ Each to their own. Ride within your limits, you can die on an 85.

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2/20/2020 3:15 AM

fullysicmate wrote:

If someone releases a 150hp 100kg dirt bike I’ll buy it. No way I need it but 🤷‍♂️ Each to their own. Ride within your limits, you can die on an 85.

True that, there are other models in the range from brands that are tamer.

Ride within your limits, at some stage I would love to be able to jump big, but that something I can work towards, I wouldn't want the option to be taken away. I know personally a 450F/ 250 2T is too much for me to race, so I stick with 125/250F

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2/20/2020 3:37 AM

Performance level is also rising. Faster riders = better bikes. Yeah riders were fast back then but I think overall everyone is getting faster and that’s why we’re seeing bikes get better and better.

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2/20/2020 4:07 AM

Here we go..

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2/20/2020 4:14 AM

America has no gun laws? Was that some sort of weird, off-base metaphor?

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2/20/2020 4:16 AM

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Performance level is also rising. Faster riders = better bikes. Yeah riders were fast back then but I think overall everyone is getting faster and that’s why we’re seeing bikes get better and better.

So faster riders means the bikes get faster???
Genuine question: What makes you think today's riders are 'faster' than say 10 or 20 years ago?

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2/20/2020 4:17 AM

Are you currently riding a 125 two stroke, original poster?

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2/20/2020 4:40 AM

Maybe have every new bike come with a wifi tuner app like the yamahas and include maps to reduce power for those who want it. Adjustment for individual needs is the best option.

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2/20/2020 4:49 AM

Hman144 wrote:

America has no gun laws? Was that some sort of weird, off-base metaphor?

Odd that was thrown in there...

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2/20/2020 4:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2020 4:55 AM

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Performance level is also rising. Faster riders = better bikes. Yeah riders were fast back then but I think overall everyone is getting faster and that’s why we’re seeing bikes get better and better.

CPR wrote:

So faster riders means the bikes get faster???
Genuine question: What makes you think today's riders are 'faster' than say 10 or 20 years ago?

One we will never know, although...

Riders today are more of an athlete, the sport has progressed so much, in fact all sports have and fitness and diet is a huge part of it nowadays.

Think back in the day it was a bit more rock n roll with a beer and a cigarette? I was born in the 90's so didn't see much old skool mx

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2/20/2020 5:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2020 7:36 AM

Go to play Curling. Problem fixed.

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2/20/2020 5:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2020 7:10 AM

I believe something like this is the future. 25 hp, 100-125lbs, low maintenance, easy transition from bicycles, less loam more hardpack.
https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/New-Electric-motorcycle-UBCO-FRX1-new-to-me-at-least,1372233

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2/20/2020 5:50 AM

When guys on 250's are turning similar lap times that kinda tosses out the idea that bikes are to powerful.

I personally have never ridden a bike that has to much power and I have never been hurt buy having too much power but I have been hurt many times not having enough power.

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2/20/2020 5:56 AM

fastchookracing wrote:

I started the “safety “ thread through concern of injuries/deaths in the sport. Now tentatively I ask another question.
Have mx bikes gone too far? The suspension/power is too much for beginners. When a new rider gets a bike and assumes they must jump a 100 foot jump, is that reasonable? I’m not saying we go back to 3” travel, but should there be limits to performance for some levels of mx?
Limit retail bikes for punters and let pro level riders have what they want. Impossible to implement, agreed. Then limit track obstacles.
And this is where I get flamed... I know America has no gun laws. But we all know children who died on mx bikes. Flame away

The lawyers will eventually do away with the kids getting hurt. Here in America any way.

Was talking to a guy that runs events. Mostly vintage stuff. He told me there is this new law here in West Virginia. The Guardian law I think. It gives a guy the right to sue whoever signed off on the release at the event that they got hurt on, when he was a minor, until he hits 26.

Nobody under 18 rides his events anymore.

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2/20/2020 5:57 AM

zippytech wrote:

When guys on 250's are turning similar lap times that kinda tosses out the idea that bikes are to powerful.

I personally have never ridden a bike that has to much power and I have never been hurt buy having too much power but I have been hurt many times not having enough power.

Mmmmmm I think that it does the opposite haha

Twice the displacement and virtually the same lap times kind of implies that a 250 is at the top of the bell curve and anything more is excessive.

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2/20/2020 6:27 AM



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I was G before the "moto drive" to Vital

2/20/2020 6:59 AM

Need to be tamed for safety, no.

Need to be tuned for tamer power for better lap times, yep.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

2/20/2020 7:08 AM

As an American and Californian, I know more people who have died from drug overdoses, heart disease, cancer and automobile accidents then death from Motocross. The whole concept, that other people are somehow responsible for your stupid, individual decisions, is absurd, redundant and removed all individual responsibility. How about instead of trying to figure out how to prevent kids from killing themselves on dirt bikes, which is far less likely than to die from anyone of the things I listed above, you put the focus back on the proper technique and training.

The gun law thing is just stupid AF to even bring up. We have hundreds, if not thousands of stupid AF gun laws. Which is a direct violation to the US Constitution. And it is completely Apple to oranges in comparison. Guns enable you to be able toprotect your self and loved ones. I don't see anyone, anytime, in any near or distant future, when people will be strapping a yz 450 to their back and marching into war. And gun laws don't prevent deaths by shootings, they actually encourage them. You need to educate yourself.

BTW you're an Aussie. Stay the f**k out of our gun rights and laws. Worry about your country please.

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2/20/2020 7:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2020 7:16 AM

This may not be popular opinion here, but my opinion is that electric powerplants are the solution to this. It will help ease people into the sport, and more safely at that.

Exhibit A: my Alta MXR. It comes stock with 4 power maps. In map 4, its as fast as a stock 450, plenty of power to do anything. In map 1, its basically like a CRF150. Its so easy to ride that my lady, who has never ridden dirtbikes before, hopped on it and instantly felt confident enough to ride around a beginner track at Fox Raceway. Map 2 is basically a 250f, which is plenty to get around a vet track on. Map 3 is more like a torquey 250f.

Listen to feedback kids have after riding a stacyc or KTM/Husky e-50. They feel more confident quicker than they would on a gas counterpart. No kick starters, no clutching, smooth power (not jerky like gas 50's), its quiet (so its less scary), etc etc.

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2/20/2020 7:19 AM

Simply put, how much power my bike has is none of your d*mn business

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2/20/2020 7:19 AM

It’s not a perfect analogy but when longboards became popular again the number of people surfing exploded. It’s not just about safety, it’s about having bikes who’s performance has broader appeal and are more rideable for the average consumer.

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2/20/2020 7:23 AM

Isn't there a throttle on the bike that controls how much of the power you use?

I get it - you put a beginner on a 450 and carnage ensues. Usually it's nothing serious, and might even be comical. But it can be a problem, though to conclude from it that nobody should ride a 450 seems a stretch. Yes, the pro on the 450 may get hurt, but who's to say he wouldn't have got hurt on a 250? You can mess up on any bike.

The problem (if there is one) seems minor for mx compared to street bikes. A shuttle driver from a car dealership was giving me a ride once and the topic of motorcycles came up. He said he was considering buying his buddy's bike. The kid was about 18 - 20 and said he'd never ridden a motorcycle before, and his friend's bike was a GSXR 1000. I told him that if he really should get a more beginner-friendly bike to learn on. We're talking about 55 or so horsepower in a controlled environment with mx as opposed to something approaching 200 hp in traffic. I know, it's apples to oranges - that's kind of the point.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

2/20/2020 7:25 AM

Motorcycles already come with the only safety device that's needed - it's called a throttle.

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2/20/2020 7:30 AM

Stop being a wuss

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2/20/2020 7:30 AM

i think the 250 class should be turned into a spec class similar to what the SCCA and NASA do for miatas, e30 bmws and honda challenge cars.

they should be stock or near stock in terms of motors so its affordable.


i am not 100% sure but it seems like most 'factory 450s' are just massaged to make the power more useable for the rider depending on their preferences. i dont think it'd be that hard for anyone to buy a 60+ hp 450 with bolt on parts you can buy on the interweb.

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2/20/2020 7:34 AM

Power.......

Seriously... newer guys, lower class.... 125 (or smaller)... peak HP should be around 30... Would probably put the displacement around 100cc.... wouldn't that be cool to see come full circle...??

250 class (or a bit smaller to keep power down)....... should be around 40 hp...

Open class is no joke... should have big power for long outdoor tracks, etc...... 50+ hp....

Today we have the small class, which starts around 40 hp..... and the big class, that starts around 60....... both are too fast, gnarly for the average weekend rider/racer.........

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

2/20/2020 7:35 AM

It’s tracks that are the issue.

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2/20/2020 7:42 AM

Hman144 wrote:

America has no gun laws? Was that some sort of weird, off-base metaphor?

Haha, good catch. I didn't make it that far into his post.

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2/20/2020 7:53 AM

I could see that the sport dies down to the point that only very rich people can afford bikes and only the major tracks stay open with 250$ a month membership like car racing or sport bike racing.

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