Mugen Is Going Racing with its Electric Dirt Bike

8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 1/19/2022 7:28pm
1/19/2022 7:28pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Seems far behind the Stark. They just shoved an electric motor inside an ICE bike. Stark clearly built theirs from the ground up, making it lighter...
Seems far behind the Stark. They just shoved an electric motor inside an ICE bike. Stark clearly built theirs from the ground up, making it lighter by not including radiators and having the engine as part of the frame.
8tensolutions wrote:
So you're thinking a brand new company can develop a moto chassis better than Honda? I agree the Stark is interesting, but discounting Honda's standards and...
So you're thinking a brand new company can develop a moto chassis better than Honda? I agree the Stark is interesting, but discounting Honda's standards and commitment to quality over the last 40+ years is likely a bad call.
sandtrack315 wrote:
I love Hondas. I have a Ridgeline and CRF. This isn’t from Honda directly. A Honda electric bike should have a chassis for the electronic motor...
I love Hondas. I have a Ridgeline and CRF. This isn’t from Honda directly. A Honda electric bike should have a chassis for the electronic motor, not just shoving a battery in the previous generation’s chassis.
That's fair.....and how do you know they just shoved an electric motor in a frame? I simply don't believe Honda would put their name on a Frankenstein conversion that is not capable.
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Silas444
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Silas444 1/19/2022 7:59pm
1/19/2022 7:59pm
8tensolutions wrote:
That's fair.....and how do you know they just shoved an electric motor in a frame? I simply don't believe Honda would put their name on a...
That's fair.....and how do you know they just shoved an electric motor in a frame? I simply don't believe Honda would put their name on a Frankenstein conversion that is not capable.
Why is it so hard to imagine that a small company can come up with a superior product? A company like Stark has no paradigm to break and no tradition to guard, so they're free to think as out-of-the-box as they wish, whereas a company like Honda, one with decades upon decades of history, can easily (and apparently did) find itself beholden to the pragmatic, the traditional, the "well-accepted" side of design.

I'll use stereo equipment as my example. There are giant companies like Sony and Yamaha and Panasonic that consistently get their asses kicked by tiny, hole-in-the-wall, manufacturers. Why? Because those tiny companies are nimble of mind and have no bureaucracies to negotiate. Moto could soon be in a similar situation and eventually end up much like the mountain bike industry, one where there are dozens of high-end boutique manufacturers. For all we know, in a couple years, we might be able to buy an ENTIRE BIKE built by Pro-Circuit or FMF.

How cool would that be? Very.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 1/19/2022 8:00pm
1/19/2022 8:00pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Stark hasn’t built shit yet, and no one knows anything other than what the brochure says
str8line wrote:

Didn't Josh Hill say it was better than the Alta?

I would consider that part of the brochure. Ever see an Oxyclean commercial?
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 1/19/2022 8:16pm
1/19/2022 8:16pm
8tensolutions wrote:
That's fair.....and how do you know they just shoved an electric motor in a frame? I simply don't believe Honda would put their name on a...
That's fair.....and how do you know they just shoved an electric motor in a frame? I simply don't believe Honda would put their name on a Frankenstein conversion that is not capable.
Silas444 wrote:
Why is it so hard to imagine that a small company can come up with a superior product? A company like Stark has no paradigm to...
Why is it so hard to imagine that a small company can come up with a superior product? A company like Stark has no paradigm to break and no tradition to guard, so they're free to think as out-of-the-box as they wish, whereas a company like Honda, one with decades upon decades of history, can easily (and apparently did) find itself beholden to the pragmatic, the traditional, the "well-accepted" side of design.

I'll use stereo equipment as my example. There are giant companies like Sony and Yamaha and Panasonic that consistently get their asses kicked by tiny, hole-in-the-wall, manufacturers. Why? Because those tiny companies are nimble of mind and have no bureaucracies to negotiate. Moto could soon be in a similar situation and eventually end up much like the mountain bike industry, one where there are dozens of high-end boutique manufacturers. For all we know, in a couple years, we might be able to buy an ENTIRE BIKE built by Pro-Circuit or FMF.

How cool would that be? Very.
It's not hard to imagine, just has never happened. More options is great and if the Stark is the best electric bike imaginable, that's awesome.
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Bearuno
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Bearuno 1/20/2022 3:57am
1/20/2022 3:57am
It' s what Honda does - use Mugen for their more 'risky', or 'out there', projects. Though, an E bike, is not really 'out there', nowadays.

So if it doesn't do well, it's not Honda officially losing face. Even though everyone knows it's a Honda........

It does well : fit different bodywork, like that shown in the 'Honda' launch, and, off they go.

It's a bit of a weird series, as explained in that Asphalt and Rubber link. But, let's see how / if it comes to pass.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 1/20/2022 7:22am
1/20/2022 7:22am
Look, I really hope Honda goes all-in on the electric dirt bike. I want is a Honda electric bike that has the same power as a 250F, lasts about an hour, and weighs the same as a 250F.

However, it just seems like, to produce an electric dirt bike that performs as well as an ICE one, you need to build it from the ground up (i.e., Stark) shedding weight where possible and putting flex where it belongs. Current MX chassis were built for/around ICE engines, so there is no reason to think they will be optimal for an electric one. When you put an electric motor in an ICE chassis, you are giving up areas of innovation that electric motors allow for.
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sumdood
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sumdood 1/21/2022 12:47am
1/21/2022 12:47am
Silas444 wrote:
Why is it so hard to imagine that a small company can come up with a superior product? A company like Stark has no paradigm to...
Why is it so hard to imagine that a small company can come up with a superior product? A company like Stark has no paradigm to break and no tradition to guard, so they're free to think as out-of-the-box as they wish, whereas a company like Honda, one with decades upon decades of history, can easily (and apparently did) find itself beholden to the pragmatic, the traditional, the "well-accepted" side of design.

I'll use stereo equipment as my example. There are giant companies like Sony and Yamaha and Panasonic that consistently get their asses kicked by tiny, hole-in-the-wall, manufacturers. Why? Because those tiny companies are nimble of mind and have no bureaucracies to negotiate. Moto could soon be in a similar situation and eventually end up much like the mountain bike industry, one where there are dozens of high-end boutique manufacturers. For all we know, in a couple years, we might be able to buy an ENTIRE BIKE built by Pro-Circuit or FMF.

How cool would that be? Very.
Thinking too far "outside the box" could go either way. Time will tell.



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Jardo
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Jardo 1/21/2022 8:26am
1/21/2022 8:26am
Bearuno wrote:
It' s what Honda does - use Mugen for their more 'risky', or 'out there', projects. Though, an E bike, is not really 'out there', nowadays...
It' s what Honda does - use Mugen for their more 'risky', or 'out there', projects. Though, an E bike, is not really 'out there', nowadays.

So if it doesn't do well, it's not Honda officially losing face. Even though everyone knows it's a Honda........

It does well : fit different bodywork, like that shown in the 'Honda' launch, and, off they go.

It's a bit of a weird series, as explained in that Asphalt and Rubber link. But, let's see how / if it comes to pass.
Agreed.

Honda is getting valuable real world data from racing this dumb looking mugen bike. They'll use the data to create a mass produced version.
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Heggo
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Heggo 1/23/2022 1:56pm
1/23/2022 1:56pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Seems far behind the Stark. They just shoved an electric motor inside an ICE bike. Stark clearly built theirs from the ground up, making it lighter...
Seems far behind the Stark. They just shoved an electric motor inside an ICE bike. Stark clearly built theirs from the ground up, making it lighter by not including radiators and having the engine as part of the frame.
8tensolutions wrote:
So you're thinking a brand new company can develop a moto chassis better than Honda? I agree the Stark is interesting, but discounting Honda's standards and...
So you're thinking a brand new company can develop a moto chassis better than Honda? I agree the Stark is interesting, but discounting Honda's standards and commitment to quality over the last 40+ years is likely a bad call.
My guess Stark is made up of ex Swede Husqvarna/Husaberg R&D/manufacture people out of work/industry when KTM bought Husaberg like when Cagiva bought Husqvarna and they formed Husaberg so it should be ball park
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