Mud races and bikes

OLDMOTO
Posts
467
Joined
3/20/2019
Location
San Diego, CA US
I read all of these posts about this brand broke and this brand didn't or this rider abused his bike. It all makes me laugh.
Every one of those bikes from yesterday were totally trashed and abused. Mud racing destroys motorcycles factory and privateer. All of the clutches were fried and all of the engines worn out from overheating. Chains, sprockets, brake pads, rotors and cables wasted. Lots of suspension surfaces scored and seals blown. I really feel for the privateers, a lot of then don't have the resources to rebuild everything after just two races.
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JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
8/23/2020 6:46pm
This is why I have never commit to going to Lorettas. If it’s a mud race and it always seems to be it would be a disaster. It could very well ruin an entire year of riding for me. Not worth it.
GuyB
Posts
35700
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
1215th
8/23/2020 7:59pm
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a build day. Suffice to say, there was a lot of extra clean-up to do, a lot of parts were being tossed, and a lot of shipping of engines and suspension being done. I'll show off some of that in Pit Bits.

Suffice to say, the conditions were a bit extraordinary yesterday. Chatting with one mechanic, he said that pretty much anything around the engine or cooling systems melted. Radiator hoses? Melted. Wiring for the GPS? Melted. Gaskets? Melted. There were even engine parts that bolt onto the side of the cylinder that had sort of welded themselves into place.

That was not your average mud race.
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JM485
Posts
5409
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
8/23/2020 8:47pm
This is exactly why I refuse to ride in the mud, it’s not worth absolutely destroying a bike for one race or one day of riding for the average person. Yes I’m a pansy from CA but we’re ballin’ on a budget over here and a mud session significantly eats into that.
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kpiper
Posts
2216
Joined
3/20/2019
Location
AZ US
8/23/2020 9:55pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a...
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a build day. Suffice to say, there was a lot of extra clean-up to do, a lot of parts were being tossed, and a lot of shipping of engines and suspension being done. I'll show off some of that in Pit Bits.

Suffice to say, the conditions were a bit extraordinary yesterday. Chatting with one mechanic, he said that pretty much anything around the engine or cooling systems melted. Radiator hoses? Melted. Wiring for the GPS? Melted. Gaskets? Melted. There were even engine parts that bolt onto the side of the cylinder that had sort of welded themselves into place.

That was not your average mud race.
Why? Was it super thick, sticky mud? Something unique at LL?

Was it because they prepped the track differently? All the dirt they brought in?
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The Shop

Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
8/24/2020 5:08am
GuyB wrote:
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a...
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a build day. Suffice to say, there was a lot of extra clean-up to do, a lot of parts were being tossed, and a lot of shipping of engines and suspension being done. I'll show off some of that in Pit Bits.

Suffice to say, the conditions were a bit extraordinary yesterday. Chatting with one mechanic, he said that pretty much anything around the engine or cooling systems melted. Radiator hoses? Melted. Wiring for the GPS? Melted. Gaskets? Melted. There were even engine parts that bolt onto the side of the cylinder that had sort of welded themselves into place.

That was not your average mud race.
kpiper wrote:
Why? Was it super thick, sticky mud? Something unique at LL?

Was it because they prepped the track differently? All the dirt they brought in?
Did you watch the race?
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kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
8/24/2020 5:34am
I do not ride my bike in the mud for that reason. Its abuse and im not rich enough to toss away parts or an engine.

I took my old truck mudding a few years back and ended up replacing the entire front suspension and all wheel bearings.

I have quads come into my shop having stupid things like radiator fans and chains being replaced because they thought a deep mud hole was a good idea.

Its not worth having watery sandpaper in my bearings and axles.
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dbx33
Posts
247
Joined
8/13/2020
Location
FL US
8/24/2020 5:36am
wonder if a sand paddle tire woulda been best?
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Elbows
Posts
447
Joined
8/21/2010
Location
Haleyville, AL US
Fantasy
968th
8/24/2020 5:57am
GuyB wrote:
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a...
I'm still here at Loretta's, and several teams (Team Honda HRC, Red Bull KTM, Rocky Mountain ATV-MC/KTM/WPS, Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull/KTM) were using it as a build day. Suffice to say, there was a lot of extra clean-up to do, a lot of parts were being tossed, and a lot of shipping of engines and suspension being done. I'll show off some of that in Pit Bits.

Suffice to say, the conditions were a bit extraordinary yesterday. Chatting with one mechanic, he said that pretty much anything around the engine or cooling systems melted. Radiator hoses? Melted. Wiring for the GPS? Melted. Gaskets? Melted. There were even engine parts that bolt onto the side of the cylinder that had sort of welded themselves into place.

That was not your average mud race.
kpiper wrote:
Why? Was it super thick, sticky mud? Something unique at LL?

Was it because they prepped the track differently? All the dirt they brought in?
The mud was deep and sticky. Even the factory bikes looked down on power. Everyone was really abusing the clutch trying to get through the slop. It was unreal at how many bikes were overheating.
sandman768
Posts
6098
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
8/25/2020 4:39am
Seems like a recluse auto clutch would alleviate many issues.... I though we’re not supposed to use the clutch much on a 4t? Ha ha... when you go to a National, that’s all you smell is burned clutches!
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peelout
Posts
17873
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
8/25/2020 11:12am
JM485 wrote:
This is exactly why I refuse to ride in the mud, it’s not worth absolutely destroying a bike for one race or one day of riding...
This is exactly why I refuse to ride in the mud, it’s not worth absolutely destroying a bike for one race or one day of riding for the average person. Yes I’m a pansy from CA but we’re ballin’ on a budget over here and a mud session significantly eats into that.
my reason is complete lack of talent
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LungButter
Posts
5708
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
8/25/2020 1:02pm
How do top GNCC guys manage to keep their bikes going for 3 hours in the mud with hundreds of lappers, endless mud holes, hill climbs etc. ?? It's not like Kailub Russell, Thad Duvall etc. etc. are just cruising around, they are flying. I dare say Kailub woulda taken the overall at LL2 had he decided to show up.

Me thinks that these guys need to learn to back it down a notch and not just pin their bikes until they explode.

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EngIceDave
Posts
2432
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
8/25/2020 1:11pm
dbx33 wrote:
wonder if a sand paddle tire woulda been best?
Other than being illegal?
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duckdog77
Posts
379
Joined
3/28/2019
Location
Laotto, IN US
8/25/2020 1:31pm
LungButter wrote:
How do top GNCC guys manage to keep their bikes going for 3 hours in the mud with hundreds of lappers, endless mud holes, hill climbs...
How do top GNCC guys manage to keep their bikes going for 3 hours in the mud with hundreds of lappers, endless mud holes, hill climbs etc. ?? It's not like Kailub Russell, Thad Duvall etc. etc. are just cruising around, they are flying. I dare say Kailub woulda taken the overall at LL2 had he decided to show up.

Me thinks that these guys need to learn to back it down a notch and not just pin their bikes until they explode.

At first I thought the same thing. As I race harescrammbles and actually enjoy an occasional mud race. Kind of have to here in Indiana. I’m not super fast by any means but I do tend to finish better in the mud. Enjoyed riding it as a kid. Dad didn’t like us to and had a rule about bike cleaning when we did. Weren’t allowed into the house until he approved of the clean up.

I think the difference there would be how deep the tracks are dug. The amount of mud and how it forms on the bike could be lot different between gncc and a national. That’s just my guess. Combine that will the more flowing riding style of off road and bikes would tend to last longer. Even I ride a lot different on a Mx track then I do in the woods.
avidchimp
Posts
4557
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
1250th
8/25/2020 2:36pm
dbx33 wrote:
wonder if a sand paddle tire woulda been best?
EngIceDave wrote:
Other than being illegal?
I blame Jammin Jimmy.
8/25/2020 2:43pm
Rippin' tracks deep before heavy rains creates that kind of mess. Just grading over "slicking up" after a deep rip won't fix the loose soil 12" deep which is great at holding lots of water.
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LungButter
Posts
5708
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
8/25/2020 2:46pm
Rippin' tracks deep before heavy rains creates that kind of mess. Just grading over "slicking up" after a deep rip won't fix the loose soil 12"...
Rippin' tracks deep before heavy rains creates that kind of mess. Just grading over "slicking up" after a deep rip won't fix the loose soil 12" deep which is great at holding lots of water.
Everyone has been saying the track was "sealed" for the whole week of rain before though.
8/25/2020 3:29pm
sandman768 wrote:
Seems like a recluse auto clutch would alleviate many issues.... I though we’re not supposed to use the clutch much on a 4t? Ha ha... when...
Seems like a recluse auto clutch would alleviate many issues.... I though we’re not supposed to use the clutch much on a 4t? Ha ha... when you go to a National, that’s all you smell is burned clutches!
I don't know if I'd trust a Rekluse in mud like that. They have problems, too. There's more things to go wrong and I've seen them sit there and spin in muddy hare-scrambles.
8/25/2020 3:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2020 3:39pm
kb228 wrote:
I do not ride my bike in the mud for that reason. Its abuse and im not rich enough to toss away parts or an engine...
I do not ride my bike in the mud for that reason. Its abuse and im not rich enough to toss away parts or an engine.

I took my old truck mudding a few years back and ended up replacing the entire front suspension and all wheel bearings.

I have quads come into my shop having stupid things like radiator fans and chains being replaced because they thought a deep mud hole was a good idea.

Its not worth having watery sandpaper in my bearings and axles.
I quit a dusty hare scramble for that reason. The dust was incredible and when I pitted to pull my FilterSkin off (because my bike was barely even running), the foam underneath was caked. No one's paying me to win and I'd just blown up my soon-to-be Husky and KX 125 and wasn't looking for the same to my KTM. With 1 lap to go, I would have had to ride hard in impenetrable dust and so I just called it off.

Video!!! Skip ahead to the end and listen to my poor bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHtGtVllo2E
skypig
Posts
683
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Caloundra AU
8/26/2020 4:10am
JM485 wrote:
This is exactly why I refuse to ride in the mud, it’s not worth absolutely destroying a bike for one race or one day of riding...
This is exactly why I refuse to ride in the mud, it’s not worth absolutely destroying a bike for one race or one day of riding for the average person. Yes I’m a pansy from CA but we’re ballin’ on a budget over here and a mud session significantly eats into that.
peelout wrote:
my reason is complete lack of talent
I was entered in the Vets class at the Aussie Nationals a few years ago. (Would have been happy to finish second last.)
My favourite track.
A lot of rain.
I get the bike out and fit mud tires.
I watch the pros paddle through the ruts.
I put the bike back in the trailer.

I ride for fun, and fun alone. It didn’t look like fun.
(I was leaving in a few days for an extended work trip to the US. I didn’t want to miss out on $100 000 worth of helicopter training, because of hurting myself, not having fun.)

I’d guess those pro bikes at LL’s would never be raced again. Maybe used for practice bikes/parts?
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8/26/2020 4:47am
Rippin' tracks deep before heavy rains creates that kind of mess. Just grading over "slicking up" after a deep rip won't fix the loose soil 12"...
Rippin' tracks deep before heavy rains creates that kind of mess. Just grading over "slicking up" after a deep rip won't fix the loose soil 12" deep which is great at holding lots of water.
LungButter wrote:
Everyone has been saying the track was "sealed" for the whole week of rain before though.
Sealing is misleading they arne't covering the track with tarps. They are back blading over the surface of deeply ripped soil to allow some of the surface water to run off to the side. Water still filters in since "slicking" doesn't make any soil impervious to h20.

To make a surface actually less resistant to water filtering in and creating mud they'd need to excavate a foot down then use vibratory compactor in 6" lifts. That would remove the pockets that fill up with water during rain and creates deep thick mud.
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