Motocross Etiquette

Nerd wrote:

Ferrandis can't think for Craig. Ferrandis believed Craig would shut off, but he was prepared for Craig not shutting off by making sure he'd get to...

Ferrandis can't think for Craig. Ferrandis believed Craig would shut off, but he was prepared for Craig not shutting off by making sure he'd get to the line to take it away before Craig did if Craig decided to race him to that intersection. In that scenario, Ferrandis knows he won't take the brunt of the impact as long as he gets there first. And he did, as he anticipated.

Yes, they're wrong. Langston, Carmichael, and many others see it the way I see it. Most of this comes down to their biases. Who is friends with Craig? Who has been at the receiving end of a similar move and didn't like it (after they also took an inadvisable outside line as if they didn't have Windham on their ass)? Who is 16 years old and just trying to calm his own IG followers down who are now attacking him for defending Ferrandis?

haydos25 wrote:

The image above shows Craig has already braced for impact, and potentially pulled in the clutch, ie. stopped forward momentum. Had he not done that then...

The image above shows Craig has already braced for impact, and potentially pulled in the clutch, ie. stopped forward momentum. Had he not done that then perhaps Dylan doesn't beat him there by a millimetre. They would still both go down. But in your books it is then a dumb move and Dylan is at fault?

Whatever the case, he came in far to hot, blew him off the track and both riders went down. In the real world its a dumb move and you're wrong. I dont have any bias at all in this, never met either. I just know that was a dumb pass that went wrong.

Also you're wrong.

Nerd wrote:

Craig checked up way too late. Again, Ferrandis got there first, and Craig opened the door for that to happen. Open the door for a faster...

Craig checked up way too late. Again, Ferrandis got there first, and Craig opened the door for that to happen.

Open the door for a faster racer who is on your ass and you'd better expect they'll go through that door. Could Ferrandis have waited? Sure. But he didn't have to. The crash was caused by Craig refusing to give up the line after he already opened the door.

Gordon Liddy wrote:

Then why was Ferrandis penalized?

Nerd wrote:

Because the AMA sucks at dishing out penalties.

Nerd wrote:

Ferrandis can't think for Craig. Ferrandis believed Craig would shut off, but he was prepared for Craig not shutting off by making sure he'd get to...

Ferrandis can't think for Craig. Ferrandis believed Craig would shut off, but he was prepared for Craig not shutting off by making sure he'd get to the line to take it away before Craig did if Craig decided to race him to that intersection. In that scenario, Ferrandis knows he won't take the brunt of the impact as long as he gets there first. And he did, as he anticipated.

Yes, they're wrong. Langston, Carmichael, and many others see it the way I see it. Most of this comes down to their biases. Who is friends with Craig? Who has been at the receiving end of a similar move and didn't like it (after they also took an inadvisable outside line as if they didn't have Windham on their ass)? Who is 16 years old and just trying to calm his own IG followers down who are now attacking him for defending Ferrandis?

Nerd wrote:

Craig checked up way too late. Again, Ferrandis got there first, and Craig opened the door for that to happen. Open the door for a faster...

Craig checked up way too late. Again, Ferrandis got there first, and Craig opened the door for that to happen.

Open the door for a faster racer who is on your ass and you'd better expect they'll go through that door. Could Ferrandis have waited? Sure. But he didn't have to. The crash was caused by Craig refusing to give up the line after he already opened the door.

APLMAN99 wrote:

When contact was made, it was pretty much a dead heat but it looked like it was more a case of Ferrandis sliding into Craig than...

When contact was made, it was pretty much a dead heat but it looked like it was more a case of Ferrandis sliding into Craig than Ferrandis actually blocking him in the “traditional” sense. I don’t think it was an egregious move by Ferrandis, but understand why Craig’s fan base could be upset.

The part about Craig’s front wheel running over Ferrandis’s rear wheel didn’t appear to occur.

Nerd wrote:

[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/01/21/399623/s1200_A414CDFE_8DE5_4E1E_8E09_188952414E62.jpg[/img]

Regis wrote:

I think the riders will judge him on his actions both before and moving forward. There have been plenty of right and wrong decisions by the...

I think the riders will judge him on his actions both before and moving forward. There have been plenty of right and wrong decisions by the AMA. (Black flag of Reed comes to mind) No matter how you slice it, it was a dumb move at the wrong time. DV said it. It wasn’t malicious, but it was dumb.

The bottom line for myself and I know this is for many, many others that actually haves raced and have been out there, If you crash with the guy you are block passing, then the consensus is you’re the idiot at fault.

I’m actually embarrassed about the fans In our sport for booing and treating DF and his Wife the way they have on social media and at the stadium. I feel bad for them both. It absolutely ridiculous what I am reading and hearing people say / type. This is a deeper problem with today’s society though. Everyone can be a tough dickhead with no repercussions. It’s sad. He is being boo’d more so for not be American. That’s bullshit

Nerd wrote:

So, if you're getting block-passed, and you just fall on the guy, he's the idiot and not you? Got it. That's incredibly dumb, but sure. James...

So, if you're getting block-passed, and you just fall on the guy, he's the idiot and not you?

Got it.

That's incredibly dumb, but sure. James Stewart did that to Chad at least 2-3 times, where Chad had a clean block-pass and Stewart just stayed on the gas and fell on Reed, taking them both down. That's just those two guys.

The guy in front has a responsibility to be aware of what's around him and act accordingly. If he goes wide when someone's on his ass, that's on him. Sometimes it pays off, but it's on him to get it right or don't. This isn't some kind of pitty party. Make choices and live with them.

But yes, of course he's being booed for being French. And because he won (and Jett didn't). And the boos are likely why the weak-ass AMA penalized Ferrandis.

Moto Norcal wrote:

So if the guy in the back changing his line to go through the open door does so in a way that causes himself to crash...

So if the guy in the back changing his line to go through the open door does so in a way that causes himself to crash (as DF did here), does that logic still stand? In other words, riding in such a way that is unrealistic to making the turn (see Alessi versus Tickle also) nullifies the attempt to "go through an open door," and converts it into a "take out."

Nerd wrote:

This forum is worthless.

APLMAN99 wrote:

I don’t think either rider got to any subjective line first. They were about as even as you could get without just lining them up on...

I don’t think either rider got to any subjective line first. They were about as even as you could get without just lining them up on edge.

The contact was clearly not anyone being hit from behind, it was just Ferrandis not being able to keep the line that it looked like he intended to and he slid into Craig. Nothing vicious, just a racing incident.

Here’s a crappy TV pic just before impact and they are side by side, only issue is that Ferrandis is still sliding. His front end is cranked hard to the right, he wasn’t trying to get into or block Craig’s line, he was simply sliding out of his own line into the side of Craig’s bike.

If Craig’s rear wheel didn’t take the big hop, wouldn’t have hardly been noteworthy.

Nerd wrote:

Why are you focused on this whole “got hit from behind” thing? I didn’t say Ferrandis was hit from behind. Who did?

Nerd wrote:

This forum is worthless.

Nerd wrote:

This forum is worthless.

Nerd wrote:

Craig contacted Ferrandis’s bike from the side. A T-bone happens when the second bike hits the front bike in the side. Ferrandis was in front when...

Craig contacted Ferrandis’s bike from the side. A T-bone happens when the second bike hits the front bike in the side. Ferrandis was in front when they hit.

You know these things. Leave it to Aplman to present a disingenuous argument, though. Same as always.

Nerd wrote:

No, when threads get out in the dungeon for no reason, the forum is worthless.

APLMAN99 wrote:

If your view is that Ferrandis was in front, then by extrapolation Craig must have been behind. For Craig to hit him, by definition he’d have...

If your view is that Ferrandis was in front, then by extrapolation Craig must have been behind. For Craig to hit him, by definition he’d have had to ‘hit him from behind’.

I understand your frustration, the full sequence doesn’t clearly show either guy “in front” when contact occurs and that basically blows your entire lecture/rant to pieces.

I’m sure you’ll survive.....

Nerd wrote:

Craig contacted Ferrandis’s bike from the side. A T-bone happens when the second bike hits the front bike in the side. Ferrandis was in front when...

Craig contacted Ferrandis’s bike from the side. A T-bone happens when the second bike hits the front bike in the side. Ferrandis was in front when they hit.

You know these things. Leave it to Aplman to present a disingenuous argument, though. Same as always.

Nerd wrote:

For the uninitiated, who seem to be confused, maybe I can help: It seems like we’ve lost track of basic motocross etiquette. People seem to think...

For the uninitiated, who seem to be confused, maybe I can help:

It seems like we’ve lost track of basic motocross etiquette. People seem to think you can leave a door wide open and it’s “not fair” for the (faster) guy behind you to try and go through that door.

Bullshit. It’s their *job* to go through that open door! It’s *your* job not to open it! Don’t leave the door open! And if you do, don’t act surprised when someone goes through that open door!

That’s how moto works! It’s simple, consistent, and historically accurate as well! This is how everybody has always judged cases of motocross etiquette, and that’s what this Ferrandis/Craig incident really is. It’s about etiquette. Who has the right of way? The rider in front! “For how long?” There’s no minimum amount of time someone needs to be in front to have the right of way. Whoever is ahead at the precise moment that a bad thing (collision) happens has the right to be wherever they are on the track *because* they’re ahead of the other person (as long as they are on the track).

Be aware of who’s in front and behind you, and act accordingly! If you do not act accordingly, it’s not up to anybody *else* to change racing etiquette so that the person who left the door open is absolved of all responsibility for their own actions! If you leave the door open when you know a faster racer (or *any* racer) is right on your ass, you fucked up! It’s that simple!

So, whoever’s wheel is behind when the two bikes hit, they’re the one who is at fault for whatever negative consequences result from the collision. Because either they tried to go through a door that wasn’t open enough (often resulting in a T-bone), or they let someone through their open door and then tried to close the door on them after it was too late.

This is how it works and has always worked.

Who is ahead here?

APLMAN99 wrote:

The pictures clearly show that Ferrandis slid into Craig. Ferrandis says he slid into Craig. Ferrandis was not clearly in front when contact occurred. No one...

The pictures clearly show that Ferrandis slid into Craig. Ferrandis says he slid into Craig. Ferrandis was not clearly in front when contact occurred.

No one “T-Boned” anyone in this instance. I didn’t say Craig hit anyone’s rear wheel, so your quotes there are dishonest at best.

Your attempted ad hom reeks of desperation.