Motocross Action 2021 450 Shootout

KPS_46
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NE, OH US
3/16/2021 4:48pm
*Warning inflammatory post* Brain dead Honda fanboys buy 1st Year Hondas, Look at 2009,2013,2017,2021 1st Year Hondas have sucked. My 1979 YZ100 didn't foul as many plugs as this $13,000 roach. They're releasing a 2022 model in April / May ! They know they F'd up.
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AH387
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Bridgeville, PA US
3/16/2021 5:59pm
I love MXA and do subscribe. I think they do put a lot of weight into how a bike looks on paper, which is why they favor the Euro bikes. There is no denying that on paper they bring the best package to the table. But, that doesn't always transfer over to the track. And they act like everyone should feel the same thing in their rankings. But how? People have different preferences. It's weird how most shootouts had the FC450 as 4th in their rankings, but MXA makes it seem like it's perfect. Also I'd be willing to bet that the YZ doesn't win the 250 shootout (based on their initials tests), even though it easily won almost every other shootout.
I do appreciate the little set up /reliability details that they usually have in their tests. This year's 450 was weird though, I did not like the format. Did they actually rank them? Based on what I saw it was Euro=win, Japan=bad.
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H4L
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3/16/2021 5:59pm
KTMACTION... Whistling
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Yeti831
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UT US
3/16/2021 5:59pm
KPS_46 wrote:
*Warning inflammatory post* Brain dead Honda fanboys buy 1st Year Hondas, Look at 2009,2013,2017,2021 1st Year Hondas have sucked. My 1979 YZ100 didn't foul as many...
*Warning inflammatory post* Brain dead Honda fanboys buy 1st Year Hondas, Look at 2009,2013,2017,2021 1st Year Hondas have sucked. My 1979 YZ100 didn't foul as many plugs as this $13,000 roach. They're releasing a 2022 model in April / May ! They know they F'd up.
What part of free ecu update isn’t ringing home for you?

Call me a fanboy all you want, this’ll be the first Honda I’ve owned since I had a 2001 cr250 in ’05 😂😂😂
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The Shop

3/16/2021 6:13pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
That first paragraph before the shootout is horrible. I had their arrogant thinking that they are better than anyone else that does shootouts. And what makes...
That first paragraph before the shootout is horrible. I had their arrogant thinking that they are better than anyone else that does shootouts. And what makes them more qualified testers than anyone else? They never miss a shot at trying to make themselves look better while shitting on everyone else.
I vaguely Remember my grandmother saying ; “pride commith before a great fall”!
Proverbs 11:2
When pride comes, disgrace follows, but with humility comes wisdom.
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holeshot413
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3/16/2021 8:19pm
Still these guys at MXA are racing and riding these bikes every week and weekend beating the crap outta them. Multiple different riders and abilities.
I value what they say.




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Brent
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Party in Temecula, CA US
3/17/2021 11:24am
TeamGreen wrote:
From everything I've seen, heard and read...including MXA and notably Ping's comments on the "chassis feel & performance" of the GasGas...? Well, between it's price and...
From everything I've seen, heard and read...including MXA and notably Ping's comments on the "chassis feel & performance" of the GasGas...? Well, between it's price and performance...it's THE winner, to me.
I tried one, the MC 450.

Nice bike, but the stock bars vibrate so much I feel like I'm running a jackhammer, and the rear suspension is waaaaaaaaay too soft, it felt like I was going to break the thing and I'm 170 Lbs.

and it needs a much more aggressive map IMO
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stone881
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Fruita, CO US
3/17/2021 12:01pm
H4L wrote:
KTMACTION... Whistling
From the guy that thinks any CR is the only thing worth riding. Lol
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Brent
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Party in Temecula, CA US
3/17/2021 12:02pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
That first paragraph before the shootout is horrible. I had their arrogant thinking that they are better than anyone else that does shootouts. And what makes...
That first paragraph before the shootout is horrible. I had their arrogant thinking that they are better than anyone else that does shootouts. And what makes them more qualified testers than anyone else? They never miss a shot at trying to make themselves look better while shitting on everyone else.
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people will believe information from a source if they sound like they know what they are talking about.

I will give him this, he has ridden every modern dirt bike ever made, but some of his suggestions on settings and bike mods are not very useful sometimes and can be way off. The editor there does hold a Master's degree, but not in engineering as you might expect, but Gerontology.

Bottom line is I take MXA's opinions and superior attitude with a grain of salt and I don't take it as gospel. For me, someone like Kris Keefer gives more accurate and detailed information.

For all of MXA's passive aggressive criticism of other bike tests, keep in mind that they rarely if ever test these bikes at more than two tracks, Glen Helen and Fox Raceway, at least that's what I see in my travels around town.






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Bret
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Mission Viejo, CA US
3/17/2021 12:15pm
As long as you are racing at Glen Helen, the MXA setup specs are pretty good.
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MPJC
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3/17/2021 12:22pm
No source is infallible, but the hate here for MXA from some is really something. Any new bike I ride, I look to MXA's suspension setup advice to get it in the ballpark and have found them to be quite useful. They were supposedly biased towards Honda in the mid 80s when in fact, Honda was just making superior machines. Is it bias to believe, based on judgments based in experience, that one brand of machine is consistently superior? You may disagree that said brand is, in fact, superior, but that does not warrant the inference that the judgment is biased as opposed to made in good faith. (They said that the 2015 YZ250 was better than the 2015 250SX FFS - I think that's looney but I have no reason to think it's based in bias). Do you really think that if KTM made a turd that they wouldn't say so?
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280driver
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VA US
3/17/2021 12:26pm
Just seams incomplete to me. Where did the GasGas rank? Where did the KX (a bike that’s won or gotten 2nd in most shootouts) rank?
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Johnny Ringo
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Tombstone, AZ US
3/17/2021 1:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2021 1:19pm
Remember when they used to bash RC in every issue, and at a Southwick press conference he said "Is anyone from MXA here? If you are, do not ever put me in your magazine again." or something to that effect.

They're tools, always have been.
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3/17/2021 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2021 2:39pm
They sure will keep low-key the husky subframe breaking way too easily, but ohhhhh boy will they tell you that Honda put the wrong valving in the suspension for every rider on the planet while only testing at 2 tracks in Cali with test rider that don't represent the majority of moto rider!!!

As Yeti831 the Dunlop tire and map switch on the GasGas was the peak of hypocrisy
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H4L
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3/17/2021 5:17pm
H4L wrote:
KTMACTION... Whistling
stone881 wrote:
From the guy that thinks any CR is the only thing worth riding. Lol
Says the guy with a KTM on his avatar.. Wink
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fcr
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3/19/2021 7:12am
I remember when everyone called it Yamaha Action, Honda Action etc. .
They spend a ton of time sorting out the bikes, they do a very good job of it too. It is nothing more that info/guide if you choose to use it. I look forward to it, I look forward to all of the shootouts. Information is good. Not that there is anything wrong with that
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Robgvx
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GB
3/19/2021 8:19am
Brent wrote:
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people...
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people will believe information from a source if they sound like they know what they are talking about.

I will give him this, he has ridden every modern dirt bike ever made, but some of his suggestions on settings and bike mods are not very useful sometimes and can be way off. The editor there does hold a Master's degree, but not in engineering as you might expect, but Gerontology.

Bottom line is I take MXA's opinions and superior attitude with a grain of salt and I don't take it as gospel. For me, someone like Kris Keefer gives more accurate and detailed information.

For all of MXA's passive aggressive criticism of other bike tests, keep in mind that they rarely if ever test these bikes at more than two tracks, Glen Helen and Fox Raceway, at least that's what I see in my travels around town.






Just curious, but why do you think Kris Keefer’s opinion is more valid. Serious question.
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Brent
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3/19/2021 11:54am
Brent wrote:
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people...
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people will believe information from a source if they sound like they know what they are talking about.

I will give him this, he has ridden every modern dirt bike ever made, but some of his suggestions on settings and bike mods are not very useful sometimes and can be way off. The editor there does hold a Master's degree, but not in engineering as you might expect, but Gerontology.

Bottom line is I take MXA's opinions and superior attitude with a grain of salt and I don't take it as gospel. For me, someone like Kris Keefer gives more accurate and detailed information.

For all of MXA's passive aggressive criticism of other bike tests, keep in mind that they rarely if ever test these bikes at more than two tracks, Glen Helen and Fox Raceway, at least that's what I see in my travels around town.






Robgvx wrote:
Just curious, but why do you think Kris Keefer’s opinion is more valid. Serious question.
I didn’t say more valid.

I said more accurate for me, and I’ll tell you why.

(1) Kris is my exact height and weight, so his settings seem to work for me more often than not. I’ve been trying the MXA suggested settings by their anonymous test riders for 30 years, and they generally don’t work for me. At least with a guy like Keefer I can connect a rider with the stuff he says.

(2) MXAs testing and results are based on riding at glen helen which is fine, but make that known to the readers. There are other tracks around here with different dirt. In fact , I’m at Pala right now and every factory team is here testing outdoor settings on a rough, wet and rutty track, but I don’t see one MXA guy here testing.

The only time I ever see Jody at another track in SoCal is when he flys over super low and fast in his WW2 airplane...

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Mr. Info
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Perris, CA US
3/19/2021 12:10pm
Almost every test rider has their own favorite bike and several of them when not testing ride their favorite. The bike that suites them the best.
They test in back to back moto’s of what a bike does during racing. They test at several SoCal tracks and do the same rider switch along with Dyno testing.
They try making changes, pipes and gearing and it’s not over a weekend it’s over a couple months.
They are telling you what the have complied not what you should do. The only gospel on buying your bike is you. They just give you options.
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fourfourone
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86oh, CT US
3/19/2021 12:46pm
Brent wrote:
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people...
...possibly because the head guy at that mag has the idea that most vet motocross riders (MXA's core audience) lack knowledge and are impressionable. Most people will believe information from a source if they sound like they know what they are talking about.

I will give him this, he has ridden every modern dirt bike ever made, but some of his suggestions on settings and bike mods are not very useful sometimes and can be way off. The editor there does hold a Master's degree, but not in engineering as you might expect, but Gerontology.

Bottom line is I take MXA's opinions and superior attitude with a grain of salt and I don't take it as gospel. For me, someone like Kris Keefer gives more accurate and detailed information.

For all of MXA's passive aggressive criticism of other bike tests, keep in mind that they rarely if ever test these bikes at more than two tracks, Glen Helen and Fox Raceway, at least that's what I see in my travels around town.






Robgvx wrote:
Just curious, but why do you think Kris Keefer’s opinion is more valid. Serious question.
Brent wrote:
I didn’t say more valid. I said more accurate for me, and I’ll tell you why. (1) Kris is my exact height and weight, so his...
I didn’t say more valid.

I said more accurate for me, and I’ll tell you why.

(1) Kris is my exact height and weight, so his settings seem to work for me more often than not. I’ve been trying the MXA suggested settings by their anonymous test riders for 30 years, and they generally don’t work for me. At least with a guy like Keefer I can connect a rider with the stuff he says.

(2) MXAs testing and results are based on riding at glen helen which is fine, but make that known to the readers. There are other tracks around here with different dirt. In fact , I’m at Pala right now and every factory team is here testing outdoor settings on a rough, wet and rutty track, but I don’t see one MXA guy here testing.

The only time I ever see Jody at another track in SoCal is when he flys over super low and fast in his WW2 airplane...

I have a huge respect for keefer. Being on Hondas payroll and him being honest on the negatives on the bike is a huge thumbs up from me.
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Madmax31
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Cincinnati, OH US
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3/20/2021 7:08am
Kyle978 wrote:
The test literally no one was waiting for...
Titanium wrote:
And here come the MXA Triggered Vitards...
Broseph wrote:
Just glancing at the one pager above, it’s like there was a contest to see who could get in the most smartass jabs at each of...
Just glancing at the one pager above, it’s like there was a contest to see who could get in the most smartass jabs at each of the Japanese brands. Even when they act like they’re describing a positive trait, they shroud it in negativity.

Meanwhile, comments on the Austrian bikes read like a press release without a single critical word against any of them.

Seems fair, right?
Mxers are funny people. If they're brand doesn't win they're crying like my 11yr old when I take away the iPad. I've never got that. People used to bitch that it was Honda action then Yamaha now KTM action. Good God.... They pick the best bike for them.... What do they really care.
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stone881
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866
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Fruita, CO US
3/20/2021 7:37am
H4L wrote:
KTMACTION... Whistling
stone881 wrote:
From the guy that thinks any CR is the only thing worth riding. Lol
H4L wrote:
Says the guy with a KTM on his avatar.. Wink
Yeah, but I have owned many Yamaha's, Honda's and now KTM, simply because I find them to be the "best" bike. Now I do see the need for more routine maintenance on a KTM, unlike say a Yamaha that only needs an oil/filter change once a year.

Anyway, I remember people have said the same about MXA regarding other brands over the years "XxxxxAction" and I think one would be hard pressed to argue that the other rags are riding and testing as much as MXA does.
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nine1seven
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Magnolia, TX US
3/20/2021 8:25am
I value MXA’s tests the most. They are the only ones that don’t seem to be afraid to tell it like it is when bikes perform poorly. I’ve been a long time Honda guy, but ever since that 2009 CRF450 I’ve been disappointed. I stuck with Honda despite all the praise MXA heaped on the KTM. I finally broke down and switched to a KTM450SXF this year and I have to admit MXA was right. I was hesitant to go to the AER fork, but it’s really good.

As far as set up goes, I set it up how Keefer recommended and then later I went to MXA’s settings, which were better for me.
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H4L
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CA US
3/20/2021 10:39am
nine1seven wrote:
I value MXA’s tests the most. They are the only ones that don’t seem to be afraid to tell it like it is when bikes perform...
I value MXA’s tests the most. They are the only ones that don’t seem to be afraid to tell it like it is when bikes perform poorly. I’ve been a long time Honda guy, but ever since that 2009 CRF450 I’ve been disappointed. I stuck with Honda despite all the praise MXA heaped on the KTM. I finally broke down and switched to a KTM450SXF this year and I have to admit MXA was right. I was hesitant to go to the AER fork, but it’s really good.

As far as set up goes, I set it up how Keefer recommended and then later I went to MXA’s settings, which were better for me.
I had a different experience. At the beginning of 2017 I was looking to upgrade my 2010 CRF450r model. After reading a few of MXA articles about how great the KTM 450skf was I decided to test ride one.
I actually ended up test riding a 17 1/2 FE & I came away wondering why MXA thought these bikes were so good.
The CRF I had wasn’t stock, but IMHO I actually felt the CRF was a better bike with the simple mods it had.
I didn’t jive with the Euro bikes handling mostly do to the air forks giving it a vague planted feel especially in the turns. The euro cockpit has a different feel to it & perhaps it’s an acquired taste for some. A couple of things I felt that were better were the brakes & the hydro clutch.
Needless to say I ended up buying an 18 CRF450r toward the end of the year.
I’m in the minority & feel the KTM’s are overrated bikes. To each their own.
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