Most prestigIous championship

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6/23/2020 8:51 AM

I think we can finally put that one to rest. I've argued with people till I'm blue in the face...… errr finger that Eli had to win the SX title to cement his legacy. The Tomaniacs would talk about number of wins plus 3 straight outdoor titles.

Out of Eli's own mouth he has said what a relief it was and how he was personally starting to worry if it would ever come. He also talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title.

Good job Tomac and now that he knows how to win one he has to be the odds on favorite for next years title. If he ends up with 40+ sx wins and 2 titles he is definitely in the Mt. Rushmore convo. .

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6/23/2020 9:03 AM

Your saying what’s already known, the SX title weather we like it or not is the clear number 1. On the flip side though guys like MC said they had to win an MX title to prove the doubters wrong.

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6/23/2020 9:10 AM

I’m kinda glad he won with the asterisk. They finished the series up. Raced two events in one week and he got it done. For sure earned it.

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GP740
Since 1987

6/23/2020 9:45 AM

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

I’m kinda glad he won with the asterisk. They finished the series up. Raced two events in one week and he got it done. For sure earned it.

Asterisk for what? Accruing the most points over a complete season and beating the entire field straight up.
Or are you going for the championship of the trolls on Vital?

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6/23/2020 9:48 AM

I believe Georgie meant "without" and just mistyped

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6/23/2020 9:51 AM

neverwas wrote:

Asterisk for what? Accruing the most points over a complete season and beating the entire field straight up.
Or are you going for the championship of the trolls on Vital?

Exactly, even RC told ET3 he had won the hardest SX Championship ever. There should be an asterisk for every championship won by not winning the most races. I don't get this Sx more important than moto thing. Without moto and grassroots moto there are no riders and no industry.

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6/23/2020 9:53 AM

Personally I think you need to win both to be mentioned among the greats. SX will always be the premier series but true motocross is raced outdoors with long motos in the elements and rough tracks. I don't favor one over the other but to me you really need both.

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MCM2 name - RXR_ProKawi24
PS4 Gamertag "Rocko24" - Add me for MES2 (soon to be MES3)

6/23/2020 9:56 AM

OldPro277 wrote:

I believe Georgie meant "without" and just mistyped

That would make sense. If so,sorry for the troll comment.

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6/23/2020 10:11 AM

Only to US fans/ industry is SX more important. To us Euros we don’t ride SX so for us it’s outdoors, even AMA outdoors before SX for me. But for Eli to be a great he had to win the title.

Like it or not I think SX is just something to watch over winter. For me the risk versus reward is not worth it.

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Now a member of the Orange brigade

6/23/2020 10:17 AM

shuggs wrote:

Only to US fans/ industry is SX more important. To us Euros we don’t ride SX so for us it’s outdoors, even AMA outdoors before SX for me. But for Eli to be a great he had to win the title.

Like it or not I think SX is just something to watch over winter. For me the risk versus reward is not worth it.

And to add to that outside the sport the GP's definitely. Try exsplaing to a regular Jo the most prestigious title is a series of races only held in the US, and not the world championship !

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6/23/2020 10:18 AM

ipbrew wrote:

Exactly, even RC told ET3 he had won the hardest SX Championship ever. There should be an asterisk for every championship won by not winning the most races. I don't get this Sx more important than moto thing. Without moto and grassroots moto there are no riders and no industry.

What is so hard to get? Everyone starts in motocross and the grassroots is great but Supercross is the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Eli even admitted it last night that he was under pressure from Kawasaki bosses every year. The way he was talking it was "Outdoors is great and all but we pay you to win a SX title."

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6/23/2020 10:19 AM

makmcguire wrote:

I think we can finally put that one to rest. I've argued with people till I'm blue in the face...… errr finger that Eli had to win the SX title to cement his legacy. The Tomaniacs would talk about number of wins plus 3 straight outdoor titles.

Out of Eli's own mouth he has said what a relief it was and how he was personally starting to worry if it would ever come. He also talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title.

Good job Tomac and now that he knows how to win one he has to be the odds on favorite for next years title. If he ends up with 40+ sx wins and 2 titles he is definitely in the Mt. Rushmore convo. .

Yea only he didn’t say any of that and your argument is so illogical it’s comical.

Eli stating it was a relief to finally win a SX championship doesn’t have anything to do with which is more important, it simply speaks to his specific circumstances. i.e. You don’t think if he had 3X SX championships but had always fallen short of a MX title it’s be a relief to finally nail down his first MX title? Would that prove the MX title was more important?

Lastly, he didn’t say anything about any uncomfortable conversations with Kawi Exec’s or how they don’t care near as much about MX titles. That was Matthes and I took those comments as more tongue in cheek/conjecture as opposed to literal quotes.

And before you get your panties in a wad and go off on a straw man argument, I’m not claiming the MX title is more coveted by riders/teams/sponsors. It’s my own personal opinion the MX title is the more challenging/grueling/difficult of the 2 to win(24- 30min Motos in more extreme conditions/weather, more diversified tracks/soil/terrain, 40 man gate, etc).

That said, clearly the SX title is more “covered” simply because it’s the more financially lucrative of the 2 for both sponsors & riders.

Lastly, your previous statements/argument wasn’t that Tomac needed a SX title to “cement his legacy”. That statement is defendable. Rather, the idiotic/asinine statement you were rightly ridiculed for was claiming was that “Tomac will remain unproven as a RACER unless/until he wins a SX title.” That was an idiotic statement then and it’s an idiotic statement now.

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6/23/2020 10:27 AM

shuggs wrote:

Only to US fans/ industry is SX more important. To us Euros we don’t ride SX so for us it’s outdoors, even AMA outdoors before SX for me. But for Eli to be a great he had to win the title.

Like it or not I think SX is just something to watch over winter. For me the risk versus reward is not worth it.

Spergen wrote:

And to add to that outside the sport the GP's definitely. Try exsplaing to a regular Jo the most prestigious title is a series of races only held in the US, and not the world championship !

It would be easy explain, this is the series you get paid the most to win. This is the series the dirt bike manufactures and sponsors want you to win the most. After winning a GP title it’s not uncommon to hear an SX question, will you go race the states. Even Herlings after 18 was still answering these questions and not just from American publications. Gajser and Prado get them as well. You never hear an SX champ get asked about racing a different series.

PS I like MX more, but to deny that SX is king in the Dirtbike world is insane.

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6/23/2020 10:35 AM

shuggs wrote:

Only to US fans/ industry is SX more important. To us Euros we don’t ride SX so for us it’s outdoors, even AMA outdoors before SX for me. But for Eli to be a great he had to win the title.

Like it or not I think SX is just something to watch over winter. For me the risk versus reward is not worth it.

Spergen wrote:

And to add to that outside the sport the GP's definitely. Try exsplaing to a regular Jo the most prestigious title is a series of races only held in the US, and not the world championship !

Easy to explain that. Just tell them "See the 94 bike and the 25 bike? They were champions in Europe but wanted to race against the best so they came here for SX."

Chances are that both Kenny and Marv would have been 450 World Champs at some point but they wanted to compete for the most prestigious title in moto.

My Rankings:

1) 450 SX
2) 450 GP
3) 450 MX
4) 250 MX
5) 250 GP
6) 250 SX E/W

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6/23/2020 10:37 AM

Park Boys wrote:

It would be easy explain, this is the series you get paid the most to win. This is the series the dirt bike manufactures and sponsors want you to win the most. After winning a GP title it’s not uncommon to hear an SX question, will you go race the states. Even Herlings after 18 was still answering these questions and not just from American publications. Gajser and Prado get them as well. You never hear an SX champ get asked about racing a different series.

PS I like MX more, but to deny that SX is king in the Dirtbike world is insane.

Don't the top GP guys earn the same as US guys these days? Thought I read they did?

Yes in the dirt bike world, but only replying from personal conversation with non Moto friends, who find it hard to fathom it's not the world championship.

Personally I don't care who wins SX, got bored of that show years ago. Moto all the way for me, but understand people do like it so would never say I'm right your wrong.

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6/23/2020 11:27 AM

Spergen wrote:

And to add to that outside the sport the GP's definitely. Try exsplaing to a regular Jo the most prestigious title is a series of races only held in the US, and not the world championship !

Park Boys wrote:

It would be easy explain, this is the series you get paid the most to win. This is the series the dirt bike manufactures and sponsors want you to win the most. After winning a GP title it’s not uncommon to hear an SX question, will you go race the states. Even Herlings after 18 was still answering these questions and not just from American publications. Gajser and Prado get them as well. You never hear an SX champ get asked about racing a different series.

PS I like MX more, but to deny that SX is king in the Dirtbike world is insane.

Spergen wrote:

Don't the top GP guys earn the same as US guys these days? Thought I read they did?

Yes in the dirt bike world, but only replying from personal conversation with non Moto friends, who find it hard to fathom it's not the world championship.

Personally I don't care who wins SX, got bored of that show years ago. Moto all the way for me, but understand people do like it so would never say I'm right your wrong.

Herlings created a bidding war between Honda? and KTM and most likely has the biggest GP contract ever. I’m assuming AC and Gajser have large contracts as well. Overall though and Zac has touched on it Contracts in the states are bigger with more bonus potential. It also helps that they race two series and have nearly 10 more races to bump all contracts up. Plus SX bonuses are the largest in the sport. Either way if you win SX, nationals or GPs your gonna make a pretty penny.

It’s world title in name, if you really broke it down it’s 75% central and Western Europe with a couple other races sold to the highest bidder with the series not going to the biggest moto market in the world as well as not going to Australia, Japan etc. That’s a knock on money hungry GL no more no less. Not on the series or riders. Moto GP and F1 have a much better calendar IMO like a World Series should. But As long as GL gets his € he don’t care. Haven’t had a GL rant in awhile! Purely financial SX is king otherwise it’s all easy to watch and support.



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6/23/2020 11:36 AM

Very powerful people in the USA dirtbike racing industry massively prefer SX over MX... Like basically HATE still dealing with MX races at the pro level.

I would get in some heated lunch time discussions with a few of those people as (though I'm younger than them) I prefer MX over SX.... and I felt pushing a SX-only agenda wasn't good for the sport.

These people would rather see no professional MX races at all, and just SX here in the US. MX would only serve as a platform for amateur racing.

Big yikes from me.

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6/23/2020 12:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/23/2020 12:17 PM

makmcguire wrote:

I think we can finally put that one to rest. I've argued with people till I'm blue in the face...… errr finger that Eli had to win the SX title to cement his legacy. The Tomaniacs would talk about number of wins plus 3 straight outdoor titles.

Out of Eli's own mouth he has said what a relief it was and how he was personally starting to worry if it would ever come. He also talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title.

Good job Tomac and now that he knows how to win one he has to be the odds on favorite for next years title. If he ends up with 40+ sx wins and 2 titles he is definitely in the Mt. Rushmore convo. .

HusqFan3 wrote:

Yea only he didn’t say any of that and your argument is so illogical it’s comical.

Eli stating it was a relief to finally win a SX championship doesn’t have anything to do with which is more important, it simply speaks to his specific circumstances. i.e. You don’t think if he had 3X SX championships but had always fallen short of a MX title it’s be a relief to finally nail down his first MX title? Would that prove the MX title was more important?

Lastly, he didn’t say anything about any uncomfortable conversations with Kawi Exec’s or how they don’t care near as much about MX titles. That was Matthes and I took those comments as more tongue in cheek/conjecture as opposed to literal quotes.

And before you get your panties in a wad and go off on a straw man argument, I’m not claiming the MX title is more coveted by riders/teams/sponsors. It’s my own personal opinion the MX title is the more challenging/grueling/difficult of the 2 to win(24- 30min Motos in more extreme conditions/weather, more diversified tracks/soil/terrain, 40 man gate, etc).

That said, clearly the SX title is more “covered” simply because it’s the more financially lucrative of the 2 for both sponsors & riders.

Lastly, your previous statements/argument wasn’t that Tomac needed a SX title to “cement his legacy”. That statement is defendable. Rather, the idiotic/asinine statement you were rightly ridiculed for was claiming was that “Tomac will remain unproven as a RACER unless/until he wins a SX title.” That was an idiotic statement then and it’s an idiotic statement now.

You really need a lesson in reading comprehension.

When did I ever say he was unproven as a RACER? Simple fact is it is without question he has been the best racer of the past half decade, he wasn't however the best champion. Now that has all changed.

Eli said on the Pulp show that he got the monkey off his back, you don't say that unless it really really matters to you.

?t=7912
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6/23/2020 3:04 PM

makmcguire wrote:

I think we can finally put that one to rest. I've argued with people till I'm blue in the face...… errr finger that Eli had to win the SX title to cement his legacy. The Tomaniacs would talk about number of wins plus 3 straight outdoor titles.

Out of Eli's own mouth he has said what a relief it was and how he was personally starting to worry if it would ever come. He also talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title.

Good job Tomac and now that he knows how to win one he has to be the odds on favorite for next years title. If he ends up with 40+ sx wins and 2 titles he is definitely in the Mt. Rushmore convo. .

HusqFan3 wrote:

Yea only he didn’t say any of that and your argument is so illogical it’s comical.

Eli stating it was a relief to finally win a SX championship doesn’t have anything to do with which is more important, it simply speaks to his specific circumstances. i.e. You don’t think if he had 3X SX championships but had always fallen short of a MX title it’s be a relief to finally nail down his first MX title? Would that prove the MX title was more important?

Lastly, he didn’t say anything about any uncomfortable conversations with Kawi Exec’s or how they don’t care near as much about MX titles. That was Matthes and I took those comments as more tongue in cheek/conjecture as opposed to literal quotes.

And before you get your panties in a wad and go off on a straw man argument, I’m not claiming the MX title is more coveted by riders/teams/sponsors. It’s my own personal opinion the MX title is the more challenging/grueling/difficult of the 2 to win(24- 30min Motos in more extreme conditions/weather, more diversified tracks/soil/terrain, 40 man gate, etc).

That said, clearly the SX title is more “covered” simply because it’s the more financially lucrative of the 2 for both sponsors & riders.

Lastly, your previous statements/argument wasn’t that Tomac needed a SX title to “cement his legacy”. That statement is defendable. Rather, the idiotic/asinine statement you were rightly ridiculed for was claiming was that “Tomac will remain unproven as a RACER unless/until he wins a SX title.” That was an idiotic statement then and it’s an idiotic statement now.

makmcguire wrote:

You really need a lesson in reading comprehension.

When did I ever say he was unproven as a RACER? Simple fact is it is without question he has been the best racer of the past half decade, he wasn't however the best champion. Now that has all changed.

Eli said on the Pulp show that he got the monkey off his back, you don't say that unless it really really matters to you.

?t=7912

Jesus man, you and your never ending straw man arguments are exhausting. First it was whether Tomac had proven himself yet as a racer, then it was SX > MX, now it’s whether or not he felt relief?

And the point of your video was to prove what again? That winning a championship meant a lot to ET3 and was a relief after so many failed attempts? Wow, talk about a real mic drop moment. Only except for the fact I’m sure he’d say the exact same thing he had 3 SX championship and 0 MX championsships before finally winning one late in his career.

But since you took the trouble to post it, remind me again where in the video i can find the part where Eli.. “talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title”?

Oh and as for my reading comprehension? It’s just fine, thanks.
Photo

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6/23/2020 3:54 PM

SX is the title every one grows up dreaming to win.
packed stadiums, big money, the intensity, tight racing, skill of each obstacle, racing under light, etc... its the whole thing.

MX might be the roots.. But every one knows SX is the top of the sport. why? because there is nothing else like it.
MX is done all over the world, but there is only 1 SX series that matters.


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6/23/2020 4:25 PM

I like all 3 series equally and follow them all with the same passion. The MXoN is the most prestigious race of the year to me. What the riders earn, teams earn or energy drinks want means nothing to me as a fan of the sport. Its like blondes/brunettes/red heads. Why choose 1 when you can have them all?

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6/23/2020 6:08 PM

To this old fart, me, real Motocross is more prestigious than Supercross.

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“Adhering to 1970’s Standards of Political Correctness”

6/23/2020 6:41 PM

GforceCoatings wrote:

I like all 3 series equally and follow them all with the same passion. The MXoN is the most prestigious race of the year to me. What the riders earn, teams earn or energy drinks want means nothing to me as a fan of the sport. Its like blondes/brunettes/red heads. Why choose 1 when you can have them all?

Photo
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6/23/2020 6:49 PM

HusqFan3 wrote:

Jesus man, you and your never ending straw man arguments are exhausting. First it was whether Tomac had proven himself yet as a racer, then it was SX > MX, now it’s whether or not he felt relief?

And the point of your video was to prove what again? That winning a championship meant a lot to ET3 and was a relief after so many failed attempts? Wow, talk about a real mic drop moment. Only except for the fact I’m sure he’d say the exact same thing he had 3 SX championship and 0 MX championsships before finally winning one late in his career.

But since you took the trouble to post it, remind me again where in the video i can find the part where Eli.. “talked about some uncomfortable conversations with Kawasaki bosses where they told him that he was paid to win the SX title. Monster Energy doesn't care nearly as much if it's athletes win the Lucas oil championship they want the Monster Energy SX title”?

Oh and as for my reading comprehension? It’s just fine, thanks.
Photo

You really do suck at reading comprehension. I have never said Eli wasn't a great racer. I have even said in this very thread that he was the best racer of the last half decade. I also have never said that SX was better than MX only that it was more prestigious. On the video right where it starts Eli goes on to say that every December they would tell him how important it was. I editorialized and assumed they would be uncomfortable because when your team and sponsor tells you they expect you to do something that you haven't yet been able to do it can't be the best conversation. Geez man, get off his jock. I'm giving him huge credit and in this very thread I picked him as my favorite next year.

To counter everything you said
Eli just proved himself as a champion
SX is more prestigious than MX
Eli felt relief but more importantly his team and sponsors are happy now.

I have no idea why it's so hard for some people to follow along. When you are the best racer and the fastest SX racer in the world anything less than a championship is failure. You don't want to be judged so harshly, don't be faster than everyone else.

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6/23/2020 7:08 PM

MXGP. Hands down.

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6/23/2020 7:40 PM

ProKawi24 wrote:

Personally I think you need to win both to be mentioned among the greats. SX will always be the premier series but true motocross is raced outdoors with long motos in the elements and rough tracks. I don't favor one over the other but to me you really need both.

This is why RC > MC in my book. RC never ducked out on MX. Even Bubba eventually realized he needed to get back outside.

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6/23/2020 7:45 PM

If it was me and I had to win one and not the other, I would rather have an outdoor title.

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6/23/2020 8:03 PM

It pains me to admit that CX is the top dog. MX is waaaaay more fun to watch!

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6/23/2020 9:15 PM

ProKawi24 wrote:

Personally I think you need to win both to be mentioned among the greats. SX will always be the premier series but true motocross is raced outdoors with long motos in the elements and rough tracks. I don't favor one over the other but to me you really need both.

motomike137 wrote:

This is why RC > MC in my book. RC never ducked out on MX. Even Bubba eventually realized he needed to get back outside.

Reeds got an outdoor title to his name.
and the biggest pay out in history of MX/SX for it.

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6/24/2020 5:14 AM

ProKawi24 wrote:

Personally I think you need to win both to be mentioned among the greats. SX will always be the premier series but true motocross is raced outdoors with long motos in the elements and rough tracks. I don't favor one over the other but to me you really need both.

motomike137 wrote:

This is why RC > MC in my book. RC never ducked out on MX. Even Bubba eventually realized he needed to get back outside.

You are kinda proving my point. MC chose to race the most prestigious championship and only really went after the outdoors one time and won it. In MC's time his skills were far above Kied's and the Rock so he could have had more outdoor titles he just didn't want to work so hard for something that isn't as important.

MX = Gnarlier and more difficult

SX = Prestigious

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