Mookie shreddin an Alta?

Jay Cee
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Jay Cee 7/25/2017 4:24am
7/25/2017 4:24am
Hmmm, alot of good debate here.. I've probably changed my own mind three times since the first page.

As far as the homologation and class discrepancy, I like my chances of seeing the alta racing for championship points (250 only) inside three years.. Why three I don't know, but progression has a way of arriving before the masses are comfortable. I'd put this in that same category.
VRR7
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VRR7 7/25/2017 4:49am
7/25/2017 4:49am
Back to the future is 2 stroke ! 4 Stroke killed the sport of MX by a large margin . Why ? Cost. Now you say the future of MX will come at a greater cost. Which will circle back to the masses that can still afford to race on a 2 stroke will way supersede those that afford to race expensive e-bikes. Take Tesla it is only alive because of financial subsidy which mean normal Joe tax is paying and funding Musk why should Joe ? As Musk already got more money than Joe plus the environmental impact of mining lithium comes at such a cost that an electric car comes with built in environment impact before it has even been driven, that a normal car will on achieve after driving it for 8 years.

All I know taking my sons RC with battery out for a ride is seriously hampered by batteries swops waiting for a recharge all very painful that real fuel rc is just so much more rewarding !
Crush
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Crush 7/25/2017 5:31am
7/25/2017 5:31am
68 wrote:
Shocking another pic of mookie from transworld

waiting for the next batch of christian craig updates...
Hahaha
Ransom_Bennett 7/25/2017 5:59am
7/25/2017 5:59am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 6:01am
mark911 wrote:
My guess would be that a lightened Alta would be competitive in Arena Cross and Straight Rhythm but it would be stretching the production battery pack...
My guess would be that a lightened Alta would be competitive in Arena Cross and Straight Rhythm but it would be stretching the production battery pack technology to make a complete SX main event with full power. Of course, throw in a $25k cutting edge chemistry/thermal control pack and it might just work.

And that's where the AMA classifying the Alta might be difficult. Displacement is a very tangible and measurable thing. Electric motors are typically measured in Kilowatts. Kilowatts can be converted to HP. Alta claims about 30KW or about 40 HP, about the same as a stock 250F. But there's no easy or verifiable way to measure this; it's all about motor type, motor geometry, windings, magnets, field control, voltage, current, and a hundred other variables that are easily changed but almost impossible to spot. What ONE or two MEASURABLE quantities would the AMA use to insure a level playing field (as level as current rules anyway)?

Taking a lesson from Formula E, almost anything is allowable except the battery packs are all the same. So it's a race to see who can use the same amount of energy and get to the finish line first. But it's still E against E and not in the same vein as the division between MX2 and MX classes. I don't know of any sanctioned series where E goes head to head with ICE, probably because it's so hard to make things fair, at least by our old ways of thinking.

Admittedly, power today may not be as important as the old days. Let's face it, the 250s many times are turning faster laps than the 450s. So maybe something other than displacement, like weight, should dictate what bikes race against each other. But I digress.

Bottom line, I don't see the AMA coming up with any definitive measuring stick soon. Maybe the old rule that let Henry race the original prototype Yamaha will be allowed. Of course, that was the era of 125/250s and would probably land the Alta in the MX class. Anyway, until then its just wishful thinking.
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is very nearsighted.

The fundamentalist fears change because he is unsure of his place in the future, so he retreats to the past.

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Mx746
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Mx746 7/25/2017 6:09am
7/25/2017 6:09am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 6:11am
will they pipe in the sound of 40 revving engines over the loud speaker before the gate drop at Nationals?Maybe riders could scream " whhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
early
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early 7/25/2017 6:39am
7/25/2017 6:39am
mark911 wrote:
My guess would be that a lightened Alta would be competitive in Arena Cross and Straight Rhythm but it would be stretching the production battery pack...
My guess would be that a lightened Alta would be competitive in Arena Cross and Straight Rhythm but it would be stretching the production battery pack technology to make a complete SX main event with full power. Of course, throw in a $25k cutting edge chemistry/thermal control pack and it might just work.

And that's where the AMA classifying the Alta might be difficult. Displacement is a very tangible and measurable thing. Electric motors are typically measured in Kilowatts. Kilowatts can be converted to HP. Alta claims about 30KW or about 40 HP, about the same as a stock 250F. But there's no easy or verifiable way to measure this; it's all about motor type, motor geometry, windings, magnets, field control, voltage, current, and a hundred other variables that are easily changed but almost impossible to spot. What ONE or two MEASURABLE quantities would the AMA use to insure a level playing field (as level as current rules anyway)?

Taking a lesson from Formula E, almost anything is allowable except the battery packs are all the same. So it's a race to see who can use the same amount of energy and get to the finish line first. But it's still E against E and not in the same vein as the division between MX2 and MX classes. I don't know of any sanctioned series where E goes head to head with ICE, probably because it's so hard to make things fair, at least by our old ways of thinking.

Admittedly, power today may not be as important as the old days. Let's face it, the 250s many times are turning faster laps than the 450s. So maybe something other than displacement, like weight, should dictate what bikes race against each other. But I digress.

Bottom line, I don't see the AMA coming up with any definitive measuring stick soon. Maybe the old rule that let Henry race the original prototype Yamaha will be allowed. Of course, that was the era of 125/250s and would probably land the Alta in the MX class. Anyway, until then its just wishful thinking.
Ransom_Bennett wrote:
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is...
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is very nearsighted.

The fundamentalist fears change because he is unsure of his place in the future, so he retreats to the past.
Personally I think 2020 is a little soon sice that is essentially 2 years away. There has been alot of development of lithium batteries in the last 10 years but the progress has slowed a bit. I wouldnt expect a big jump for consumers until maybe 2025.

I wonder if they would change the rules for arenacross or endurocross for an Alta. Might be easier to push through than full on mx/sx series.
Bearuno
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Bearuno 7/25/2017 6:47am
7/25/2017 6:47am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 6:51am
I've said it many times - if Alta (or any E Bike maker) is allowed to compete with ICE bikes, it should be in the 450 class.

Power and Torque are No Problem at all for E bikes. It's the battery that limits things, and batteries are ever improving / and Alta can easily change a battery between Motos etc.

Put them in among 250s, and you'd be setting a precedent just as damaging as the ridiculous 2 times the capacity for 4ts over 2ts in the 250 class, and the 1,75 times the capacity for 4 strokes in the 450 class.

I guess you could place a limit on the power and torque they have, but, bloody hell, it's not hard for the E Tech boys and girls to out smart their 'controllers' in the AMA / FIM or any other countries officialdom - that I'm pretty bloody sure of. We've a production bike out now with Smart Phone access - so it would be a piece of piss for Blue Tooth / other type of interfacing to limit the power during 'testing' - then just press a button, and "hello Open Bike power".

They've already been allowed in Endurocross - but perhaps that was through a Vet class 'open usage' rule?

The MEC started as a 'run what you brung" race, to my recollection. If that hasn't changed, I would assume an E Bike could be used in it?

An Alta would be perfect for much of my riding, and, when you look at it's volume of production, it's not particularly expensive - a small series production ICE bike would be the sort of price they are.
bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/25/2017 8:53am
7/25/2017 8:53am
Ransom_Bennett wrote:
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is...
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is very nearsighted.

The fundamentalist fears change because he is unsure of his place in the future, so he retreats to the past.
Agree, the change will come when a new battery technology is invented. People seem to forget that 20 years ago there were virtually no portable power tools because of the crappy NiMH tech. Now LiON has completely changed the jobsite.

There will be new battery tech given the millions of R&D, but when is any ones guess. And it won't be LiON.
stone881
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stone881 7/25/2017 9:34am
7/25/2017 9:34am
Ransom_Bennett wrote:
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is...
we are nearing technologically exponential growth. Battery technology is slightly different, but to think 1970-current vs current-2020 (for example) growth will not be EXTREMELY different is very nearsighted.

The fundamentalist fears change because he is unsure of his place in the future, so he retreats to the past.
bbhMoto wrote:
Agree, the change will come when a new battery technology is invented. People seem to forget that 20 years ago there were virtually no portable power...
Agree, the change will come when a new battery technology is invented. People seem to forget that 20 years ago there were virtually no portable power tools because of the crappy NiMH tech. Now LiON has completely changed the jobsite.

There will be new battery tech given the millions of R&D, but when is any ones guess. And it won't be LiON.
Most likely will come in the form of graphene supercapacitors, which can be paired with a LiOn battery. This will drastically reduce the weight and add to run time.

Pit Row

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