Misconceptions About Alta, From An Alta Rep...

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4/19/2018 8:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/19/2018 8:37 AM

I have said this before and will say it again. The most intelligent conversations on the internet about Alta can be found right here on Vital. Bravo gentleman!

I'm a Regional Sales Manager for Alta and just wanted to clear up a couple of things that some have voiced concern on here.

Weight - Its 259lbs on the 2018 MXR. When I'm conducting demo rides, I asked riders when they get off the bike what the weight of the bike feels like. Most of them say between a 125-250. This is mostly because there is no rotating engine mass. Alta has done some research on the rotating mass of a 4 stroke engine. The results were that the rotating mass of a 450 is equivalent to around 60lbs. You feel that rotating mass mainly when you are leaning the bike in a rut or on a berm. With no rotating mass of an engine, the Alta "feels" a lot lighter when you ride it and specially when hitting a turn. Where you will notice the 259lbs of an Alta is if you lift it onto a bike stand.

Range - Range is probably the biggest concern of most riders. The way I explain it is that the battery is similar to a tank of gas. The range will depend on who is riding it and where. If you have a top pro rider with a track like Glen Helen that has a lot of 4th and 5th gear straight aways and massive uphills, he might only get 30 minutes out of a charge. Then on the other end of the spectrum, a slower vet rider on tight single track could get 4-5 hours out of a charge. For me, I'm an older (56) vet A rider and at the local tracks in the Houston area, I can get about an hour and a half out of a full charge. However, an average "moto" for me is 4-7 laps, usually around 10-15 minutes. When I come in from a ride I plug the bike into a 110V plug that my local tracks have. I usually take 30 minutes to an hour between rides. The bike doesn't always charge back to 100%, but it gets close. Of course if you don't have access to an outlet, you will need to have a generator. I just had an inverter installed in my Sprinter, so now I will be able to charge on 220V for an even quicker charge.

On a side note. Dustin Winter is a super fast up and coming pro rider hitting the major amateur races right now and training for Loretta's. He rode the bike for the first time last night at 3 Palms and within two laps he was flying and commented when he got off that he was jumping gaps that he couldn't do on his 250F. He was concerned about the lack of noise, because he has tried to ride with ear plugs on his 250F and couldn't. He said the lack on noise was not an issue at all. He loved the bike!

I have left this offer out there before and its still stands. I live in Houston and frequent the local tracks in the area when I'm in town. I can also be found at other tracks throughout Texas. Almost every Alta dealer has demo's and you can contact them to set up a test ride, however feel free to contact me anytime if you would like to test ride one of my demo's.

Larry Hughes
281.541.2767

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4/19/2018 8:43 AM

Great insight Larry. I'm sure tons of guys here are curious on the MXR's performance.

Seems legit!

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Current rides-
1988 RM250
2019 KX450

4/19/2018 8:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/19/2018 8:49 AM

Not to be rude.

But what misconceptions did you just clear up? It’s still 259 lbs and we are all up to speed on rotating mass, and the bike has a battery that drains at different speeds depending on rider ability.

Seems to me you have a pretty creative way to get demo rides scheduled here.....

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

4/19/2018 8:57 AM

Nice post. I want one badly but can't justify the cash outlay for a new bike at the moment.

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4/19/2018 9:03 AM

MxKing809 wrote:

Not to be rude.

But what misconceptions did you just clear up? It’s still 259 lbs and we are all up to speed on rotating mass, and the bike has a battery that drains at different speeds depending on rider ability.

Seems to me you have a pretty creative way to get demo rides scheduled here.....

Because I think a lot of people don't understand the " rotating mass effect " a bike can have. That is actually a huge thing. And if the 450's are putting out at close to 60lbs........do the math. If a bike weighs 259lbs.....but feels like a 125 / 250.......that right there tells the whole story. I haven't been able to ride one as of yet , but the info on them is very interesting.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

4/19/2018 9:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/19/2018 9:20 AM

Doesn't he mean Reciprocating Mass (as in, it has None) , as well as Rotating Mass, which it does have a component of?

An Alta Has the rotating mass of the Electric Motor (and whatever rotating shafts / parts there are in getting drive to the counter shaft sprocket) , as against the (hell of a lot more) rotating mass of extra shafts like Cam Shafts ( even the Cam Chain) in 4ts, And, with some engines, separate Balance Shafts. And Clutches / any extra shafts relating to a gearbox, of course.

And those differences, certainly can make a heck of a difference in feel of a bike.

I'm not a hater here - I really can see an Alta ( or E Bike of the same, or higher level) in my future, and I easily accept that the Considerably less Rotating Mass and the total lack of Reciprocating Mass of an Alta Will make the bike much more 'flickable' than an ICE bike of the same weight. And even a ICE bike that is Substantially lighter than the Alta.

If I were travelling to the USA this year (still might be able to swing it), I'd be contacting this fellow / Alta to try to get a Demo ride on an Alta. It would be the perfect bike for my local riding.

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4/19/2018 9:11 AM

Thanks for sharing some facts! Most people that mention range and charge time don’t have a clue as to wheter they’ll actually NEED either. Being AT the track all day is very different than being ON the track all day...

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4/19/2018 9:15 AM

Once we get our track here prepped (rain has FINALLY ended!) I cam going to get an Alta out for a demo day. I am really looking forward to riding one.

Hammer 663s

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4/19/2018 9:25 AM

I'm a fan before even riding one. Why? Because I can't wait until the 4-stroke gets its just desserts. cool

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Braaapin' aint easy.

4/19/2018 9:31 AM

Zoom wrote:

I have said this before and will say it again. The most intelligent conversations on the internet about Alta can be found right here on Vital. Bravo gentleman!

I'm a Regional Sales Manager for Alta and just wanted to clear up a couple of things that some have voiced concern on here.

Weight - Its 259lbs on the 2018 MXR. When I'm conducting demo rides, I asked riders when they get off the bike what the weight of the bike feels like. Most of them say between a 125-250. This is mostly because there is no rotating engine mass. Alta has done some research on the rotating mass of a 4 stroke engine. The results were that the rotating mass of a 450 is equivalent to around 60lbs. You feel that rotating mass mainly when you are leaning the bike in a rut or on a berm. With no rotating mass of an engine, the Alta "feels" a lot lighter when you ride it and specially when hitting a turn. Where you will notice the 259lbs of an Alta is if you lift it onto a bike stand.

Range - Range is probably the biggest concern of most riders. The way I explain it is that the battery is similar to a tank of gas. The range will depend on who is riding it and where. If you have a top pro rider with a track like Glen Helen that has a lot of 4th and 5th gear straight aways and massive uphills, he might only get 30 minutes out of a charge. Then on the other end of the spectrum, a slower vet rider on tight single track could get 4-5 hours out of a charge. For me, I'm an older (56) vet A rider and at the local tracks in the Houston area, I can get about an hour and a half out of a full charge. However, an average "moto" for me is 4-7 laps, usually around 10-15 minutes. When I come in from a ride I plug the bike into a 110V plug that my local tracks have. I usually take 30 minutes to an hour between rides. The bike doesn't always charge back to 100%, but it gets close. Of course if you don't have access to an outlet, you will need to have a generator. I just had an inverter installed in my Sprinter, so now I will be able to charge on 220V for an even quicker charge.

On a side note. Dustin Winter is a super fast up and coming pro rider hitting the major amateur races right now and training for Loretta's. He rode the bike for the first time last night at 3 Palms and within two laps he was flying and commented when he got off that he was jumping gaps that he couldn't do on his 250F. He was concerned about the lack of noise, because he has tried to ride with ear plugs on his 250F and couldn't. He said the lack on noise was not an issue at all. He loved the bike!

I have left this offer out there before and its still stands. I live in Houston and frequent the local tracks in the area when I'm in town. I can also be found at other tracks throughout Texas. Almost every Alta dealer has demo's and you can contact them to set up a test ride, however feel free to contact me anytime if you would like to test ride one of my demo's.

Larry Hughes
281.541.2767

Thanks for the info and I would love soo much that Alta jump the north wall and bring the Alta over here. It will be a blessing for me living in a small ski hill town who hate noise (some peoples complained about chain on mountain bike noise.. it's that bad). Anyway I will keep your contact as I travel few times each year to Austin on business trip and will contact you for a test ride.

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4/19/2018 9:33 AM

I am curious about setting up local E-bike only tracks that are closer to population centers that would normally be off limits to ICE bikes due to noise ordinances etc. Permitting would have to be simpler than most typical MX tracks. If you had enough people, you could easily come up with different membership tiers. Has Alta talked with anyone with similar plans?

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4/19/2018 9:57 AM

Ramptester wrote:

I am curious about setting up local E-bike only tracks that are closer to population centers that would normally be off limits to ICE bikes due to noise ordinances etc. Permitting would have to be simpler than most typical MX tracks. If you had enough people, you could easily come up with different membership tiers. Has Alta talked with anyone with similar plans?

Nice idea but people will just complain about "dust" and destroying the "eco system" or any number of countless sticks they have up their ass.

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"Shifting gears and passing queers" GL

4/19/2018 12:06 PM

charley586 wrote:

Thanks for the info and I would love soo much that Alta jump the north wall and bring the Alta over here. It will be a blessing for me living in a small ski hill town who hate noise (some peoples complained about chain on mountain bike noise.. it's that bad). Anyway I will keep your contact as I travel few times each year to Austin on business trip and will contact you for a test ride.

Seriously......people complain about chain noise from a Mountain Bike??????? Thats just absurd and nit picking bec their lives suck or theyre extremely unhappy in life bec its nearly impossibld to hear that from 100 feet away. Hearing someone complain about such a miniscule sound like that would infuriate me ....you should tape a playing card onto your mtb bike and just to show them the finger lol

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4/19/2018 12:13 PM

Who is the Dealer in Arizona ?

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4/19/2018 12:16 PM

Throw an internal combustion engine in the frame and I'd love one

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

4/19/2018 12:17 PM

Zoom wrote:

I have said this before and will say it again. The most intelligent conversations on the internet about Alta can be found right here on Vital. Bravo gentleman!

I'm a Regional Sales Manager for Alta and just wanted to clear up a couple of things that some have voiced concern on here.

Weight - Its 259lbs on the 2018 MXR. When I'm conducting demo rides, I asked riders when they get off the bike what the weight of the bike feels like. Most of them say between a 125-250. This is mostly because there is no rotating engine mass. Alta has done some research on the rotating mass of a 4 stroke engine. The results were that the rotating mass of a 450 is equivalent to around 60lbs. You feel that rotating mass mainly when you are leaning the bike in a rut or on a berm. With no rotating mass of an engine, the Alta "feels" a lot lighter when you ride it and specially when hitting a turn. Where you will notice the 259lbs of an Alta is if you lift it onto a bike stand.

Range - Range is probably the biggest concern of most riders. The way I explain it is that the battery is similar to a tank of gas. The range will depend on who is riding it and where. If you have a top pro rider with a track like Glen Helen that has a lot of 4th and 5th gear straight aways and massive uphills, he might only get 30 minutes out of a charge. Then on the other end of the spectrum, a slower vet rider on tight single track could get 4-5 hours out of a charge. For me, I'm an older (56) vet A rider and at the local tracks in the Houston area, I can get about an hour and a half out of a full charge. However, an average "moto" for me is 4-7 laps, usually around 10-15 minutes. When I come in from a ride I plug the bike into a 110V plug that my local tracks have. I usually take 30 minutes to an hour between rides. The bike doesn't always charge back to 100%, but it gets close. Of course if you don't have access to an outlet, you will need to have a generator. I just had an inverter installed in my Sprinter, so now I will be able to charge on 220V for an even quicker charge.

On a side note. Dustin Winter is a super fast up and coming pro rider hitting the major amateur races right now and training for Loretta's. He rode the bike for the first time last night at 3 Palms and within two laps he was flying and commented when he got off that he was jumping gaps that he couldn't do on his 250F. He was concerned about the lack of noise, because he has tried to ride with ear plugs on his 250F and couldn't. He said the lack on noise was not an issue at all. He loved the bike!

I have left this offer out there before and its still stands. I live in Houston and frequent the local tracks in the area when I'm in town. I can also be found at other tracks throughout Texas. Almost every Alta dealer has demo's and you can contact them to set up a test ride, however feel free to contact me anytime if you would like to test ride one of my demo's.

Larry Hughes
281.541.2767

charley586 wrote:

Thanks for the info and I would love soo much that Alta jump the north wall and bring the Alta over here. It will be a blessing for me living in a small ski hill town who hate noise (some peoples complained about chain on mountain bike noise.. it's that bad). Anyway I will keep your contact as I travel few times each year to Austin on business trip and will contact you for a test ride.

Lightning78 wrote:

Seriously......people complain about chain noise from a Mountain Bike??????? Thats just absurd and nit picking bec their lives suck or theyre extremely unhappy in life bec its nearly impossibld to hear that from 100 feet away. Hearing someone complain about such a miniscule sound like that would infuriate me ....you should tape a playing card onto your mtb bike and just to show them the finger lol

Yes it's true. Bromont where I live, was well knowed in the 90' and 00' in the Mountain bike work. The world cup stopped here (downhill and cross country). We had stuff to compete against Kingdom trails in Burke but the developpment stopped and the ski hill closed the trails for housing developpment (crazy expensive land). Some underground groupe (furtive trolls is their name hehe) continued to build trails in the mountains but the people who bought this crazy expensive land was pissed because of the trails (some were existing for a long long time) and were complaining about NOISE! Anyway fews years later the city citizens got together and purchased the rest of the mountain so no new house will be built and we will have a park for ourself and ride the shit out of hit. Theses furtive trolls build some really nice and crazy trails here.

The problem is a lot (not all of them) Baby Boomer are retiring and move away from city to have a quieter life... Now they are complaining about every possible noise or stuff that could impact heir super precious and most important thing in life... their life. They complain about the smell of farming, the trains that pass into town (the trains was there a long time ago), to build a new pipeline (but they need crude oil to feed heir massive SUV so more trains pass in town), the mountain bike chains noise because they wan to walk in the wood alone... Weird thing is Quebec is maybe as big as 25% of the USA but with only 8 millions people and we can't stand each other...

sorry I hijacked the post...

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4/19/2018 12:26 PM

MxKing809 wrote:

Not to be rude.

But what misconceptions did you just clear up? It’s still 259 lbs and we are all up to speed on rotating mass, and the bike has a battery that drains at different speeds depending on rider ability.

Seems to me you have a pretty creative way to get demo rides scheduled here.....

I give the guy some credit. I think that’s the most important part of selling any bike, get people to ride it! I bought my first KTM the day after I went to their demo. Demo rides are the best marketing idea I’ve ever seen, especially when you’re the little guy in the market. I feel like some even the most die hard anti e bike guys would change their tune after throwing a leg over one.

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4/19/2018 12:36 PM

Demo rides are definitely selling bikes and for these it is the best form of marketing. Cant stress enough that people should withhold judgment till they try one.

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4/19/2018 12:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/19/2018 12:38 PM

MxKing809 wrote:

Not to be rude.

But what misconceptions did you just clear up? It’s still 259 lbs and we are all up to speed on rotating mass, and the bike has a battery that drains at different speeds depending on rider ability.

Seems to me you have a pretty creative way to get demo rides scheduled here.....

PTECH wrote:

I give the guy some credit. I think that’s the most important part of selling any bike, get people to ride it! I bought my first KTM the day after I went to their demo. Demo rides are the best marketing idea I’ve ever seen, especially when you’re the little guy in the market. I feel like some even the most die hard anti e bike guys would change their tune after throwing a leg over one.

I truly want one, and if the charge would last twice as long, I’d buy one tomorrow.

Just don’t spin your sales pitch as info BRO....

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

4/19/2018 12:42 PM

It still weighs alot. Meaning braking takes extra space. Also, it is top-heavy in comparison. If it was able to take the top section of motor off, for charging while using the lower half, would be great for moto. 15 minute session, much lower weight, and better braking/handling, all while anther motor being charged up, would be ideal.

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4/19/2018 12:42 PM

A clutch lever would be handy/helpful (safe).

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4/19/2018 12:54 PM

Larry -- thanks for all of that great info, I'm looking forward to riding one some day. We spend a lot of time on this forum talking about how to sustain or grow the sport - and I believe electric bikes could be the gateway to true growth.

Right now, a current motocross bike is essentially a $8-10K toy that you can't do much else with. With electric, I could see the bikes evolving to have a plug in light kit component so that they could also be used on the street (riders would want a spare set of wheels to swap out of course). If a race bike could also serve as a commuter - it seems like that opens up the market quite a bit, and it also makes it easier for the masses to justify the purchase. Want to race this weekend? Take off the lights, pop on the right tires and go for it.

Tie that in with quiet machines so that tracks can be moved closer to cities, and decreased maintenance compared to ICE, and it seems like this combination could be a game changer for the entire sport.

Will I miss my clutch and shifter? Probably. But at the same time, I feel like it's more important for the sport to evolve and flourish. I'm very interested, and hopeful, in seeing where this all leads!

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4/19/2018 1:04 PM

As a rep, I would think that u would indeed know that yes, you have plenty of rotating mass in your engine. I mean surely there is a rotor/stator of some sort in the motor....

Now, the centrifical force of a traditional gas engine goes into the chassis in a vertical manner... With brushless, the motor, depending the way mounted and direction of rotation, will typically transfer load to the chassis in a horizon manner.... You could run the motor one way to help keep the front end on the ground, or u could reverse it to load the rear instead...

U lost me after the first point.. so I won't argue the second...

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

4/19/2018 3:29 PM

gt80rider wrote:

As a rep, I would think that u would indeed know that yes, you have plenty of rotating mass in your engine. I mean surely there is a rotor/stator of some sort in the motor....

Now, the centrifical force of a traditional gas engine goes into the chassis in a vertical manner... With brushless, the motor, depending the way mounted and direction of rotation, will typically transfer load to the chassis in a horizon manner.... You could run the motor one way to help keep the front end on the ground, or u could reverse it to load the rear instead...

U lost me after the first point.. so I won't argue the second...

Why would you need a stator when almost all the bike is a big ass battery? The motor works as a stator with engine breaking.

Also, have you guys read any of the comments on Alta’s facebook posts? It’s 100x worse than Vital!

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If you're not mixing gas, you're not haulin ass.

4/19/2018 3:48 PM

500guy wrote:

Who is the Dealer in Arizona ?

AEO Powersports. I am pretty sure they run the Alta's out of their Mesa location with the Huskies.

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4/19/2018 3:50 PM

Details on the 220V inverter please.

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4/19/2018 4:26 PM

TrailDigger wrote:

Why would you need a stator when almost all the bike is a big ass battery? The motor works as a stator with engine breaking.

Also, have you guys read any of the comments on Alta’s facebook posts? It’s 100x worse than Vital!

Yes, the Facebook comments are off the charts. I don't understand the need for all the hating, I mean this is just dirt bikes, this is supposed to be fun!

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4/19/2018 4:33 PM

500guy wrote:

Who is the Dealer in Arizona ?

AEO Powersports

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4/19/2018 5:18 PM

MxKing809 wrote:

Not to be rude.

But what misconceptions did you just clear up? It’s still 259 lbs and we are all up to speed on rotating mass, and the bike has a battery that drains at different speeds depending on rider ability.

Seems to me you have a pretty creative way to get demo rides scheduled here.....

PTECH wrote:

I give the guy some credit. I think that’s the most important part of selling any bike, get people to ride it! I bought my first KTM the day after I went to their demo. Demo rides are the best marketing idea I’ve ever seen, especially when you’re the little guy in the market. I feel like some even the most die hard anti e bike guys would change their tune after throwing a leg over one.

MxKing809 wrote:

I truly want one, and if the charge would last twice as long, I’d buy one tomorrow.

Just don’t spin your sales pitch as info BRO....

The OP is a Vet A rider and is getting 1.5 hours before charging and a Pro gets 30 min...How much do you need?



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4/19/2018 5:42 PM

Zoom wrote:

I have said this before and will say it again. The most intelligent conversations on the internet about Alta can be found right here on Vital. Bravo gentleman!

I'm a Regional Sales Manager for Alta and just wanted to clear up a couple of things that some have voiced concern on here.

Weight - Its 259lbs on the 2018 MXR. When I'm conducting demo rides, I asked riders when they get off the bike what the weight of the bike feels like. Most of them say between a 125-250. This is mostly because there is no rotating engine mass. Alta has done some research on the rotating mass of a 4 stroke engine. The results were that the rotating mass of a 450 is equivalent to around 60lbs. You feel that rotating mass mainly when you are leaning the bike in a rut or on a berm. With no rotating mass of an engine, the Alta "feels" a lot lighter when you ride it and specially when hitting a turn. Where you will notice the 259lbs of an Alta is if you lift it onto a bike stand.

Range - Range is probably the biggest concern of most riders. The way I explain it is that the battery is similar to a tank of gas. The range will depend on who is riding it and where. If you have a top pro rider with a track like Glen Helen that has a lot of 4th and 5th gear straight aways and massive uphills, he might only get 30 minutes out of a charge. Then on the other end of the spectrum, a slower vet rider on tight single track could get 4-5 hours out of a charge. For me, I'm an older (56) vet A rider and at the local tracks in the Houston area, I can get about an hour and a half out of a full charge. However, an average "moto" for me is 4-7 laps, usually around 10-15 minutes. When I come in from a ride I plug the bike into a 110V plug that my local tracks have. I usually take 30 minutes to an hour between rides. The bike doesn't always charge back to 100%, but it gets close. Of course if you don't have access to an outlet, you will need to have a generator. I just had an inverter installed in my Sprinter, so now I will be able to charge on 220V for an even quicker charge.

On a side note. Dustin Winter is a super fast up and coming pro rider hitting the major amateur races right now and training for Loretta's. He rode the bike for the first time last night at 3 Palms and within two laps he was flying and commented when he got off that he was jumping gaps that he couldn't do on his 250F. He was concerned about the lack of noise, because he has tried to ride with ear plugs on his 250F and couldn't. He said the lack on noise was not an issue at all. He loved the bike!

I have left this offer out there before and its still stands. I live in Houston and frequent the local tracks in the area when I'm in town. I can also be found at other tracks throughout Texas. Almost every Alta dealer has demo's and you can contact them to set up a test ride, however feel free to contact me anytime if you would like to test ride one of my demo's.

Larry Hughes
281.541.2767

Very cool Larry, Thanks

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