Mike Brown getting heat over LL?

NJKawi913
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8/7/2017 8:42am
it just a bunch of whiny babies that are mad they never raced for a real title. The highlight of loretta's is supposed to be the buzz around what Amateur is going Pro, which kid on a 65, or 85 are we going to see compete at the highest level. I do enjoy the other classes, but lets be real if you havent made it by 25 your old news and aint racing any higher than loretta's. To me those races are only cool getting to see names like mike brown, or barry carsten still out there killing it.
Erek_Kudla
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8/7/2017 9:43am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
You can say that but then again this is supposed to be an amateur event and you have former pros including national champions competing . They...
You can say that but then again this is supposed to be an amateur event and you have former pros including national champions competing . They should have their own class.
They do have their own class - 25+ and 40+... they can't race ANY other class.
olds cool
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8/7/2017 9:47am
Don't we have this same thread every year with somebody else's name in it?
Erek_Kudla
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8/7/2017 9:49am
teamchrist wrote:
The thing I wonder is why are they not running in any of the A or pro sport classes? Instead of the vet classes.. is it...
The thing I wonder is why are they not running in any of the A or pro sport classes? Instead of the vet classes.. is it simply because they race their age or is it they don't wanna try as hard to run A or pro sport? I remember watching Carmichael at the area when he raced LL a couple years back. He was having to work hard in pro sport with Jeremy Martin, but run off and left everyone in 25+. Makes me think he didn't want to run that pace. Not saying he can't cause dude is beast. Carmichael is a bad dude on 2 wheels.
Because at Loretta Lynn's they're not allowed to race any A classes, when in reality, they are absolutely eligible to race any A class by AMA rules. The week's program only allows an ex-pro to race 25+ and 40+...

The Shop

500guy
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8/7/2017 9:51am
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event.

If you want to brag that you are in the top 40 fasted 40+-50+ that should include anyone who qualifies under the rules.

The rules are there from the beginning they don't change them during the year. it seems like a non issue.
8/7/2017 9:53am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 10:10am
I still vote Brownie gets to compete against soccer-dads, but no factory-prepped 450. He gets to ride an '89. Ramsey gets to compete, but on a '93, etc. No bike later than your first AMA pro MX/SX points allowed.

That sounds like an awesome day for fans and riders.
TomZ
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8/7/2017 10:13am
Rockinar wrote:
You're 25 years old and all excited about your first big race at Lorettas in the 25+ class only to discover you are gated next to...
You're 25 years old and all excited about your first big race at Lorettas in the 25+ class only to discover you are gated next to Mike Brown, Nathan Ramsey and Buddy Antunez.

Mike was just saying in April that he wanted to race Muddy Creek.

HAHAHA.......


EXACTLY !!

Can you imagine as a young guy how exciting it would be to line up with guys that you see in the magazines. What a great experience.

That is what you meant right ??
gt80rider
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8/7/2017 10:18am
Enough of the fix it via yet another new class....
lostboy819
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8/7/2017 10:23am
olds cool wrote:
Don't we have this same thread every year with somebody else's name in it?
Yep,the peanut gallery rips who ever wins.Blush
Rhody
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8/7/2017 10:38am
I have a couple of thoughts, but I am a non rider, so just disregard what I post:

TDeath 21 earlier posted about sprint cars. I race sprint cars, and I often line up next to full time pro's backed by million dollar plus teams. And there is money on the line, so I am getting beat out of money by these guys, but it is what it is. I can go race nothing races for pocket change if I want easy wins. If I want to win something meaningful I have to go up against the bad asses and their bad ass budgets. I could also move down a class, but I have no desire to do that. If you can't hang, get a new hobby. In MX parlance, get a quad.

Also, I used to play hockey. I never played organized hockey at a high level. I played a lot of pickup games. Some of the pickup games included former NHL players, former European pros, former Division 1 college players, high school players, 25 year old beginners, 12 year old kids, whatever. Seeing the old pro's in the locker room, my thought process was never "Oh crap, I'm gonna get my ass kicked" it was always-" This is gonna be a good game". Sure, I didn't get to touch the puck as much, and I couldn't make as many plays, but the plays I made meant more to me because I knew that I was playing with the best.

If I am going to spend 10k and take a week out of my schedule I want to race the best. I figure I can whip tomato cans in my own backyard.
wildbill
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8/7/2017 10:40am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
If you were once a pro you are a "legend." Call it what you want. Guys that were once professionals have no reason to be racing...
If you were once a pro you are a "legend." Call it what you want. Guys that were once professionals have no reason to be racing true amateurs, its really stupid. How many times have we heard that these guys never really lose much speed, mainly endurance. You can compare it to other sports, a PRO IS A PRO. If you had your pro card you where a pro.

I think it is cool to see them out racing but it just screws the shit out of the guys that would give anything to get a bib from the ranch. Guys that maybe never had the equipment or funds to do this when they were younger but have worked hard in life and would like to chase a dream. I know a guy that qualified for 40+ 2 years ago, he is much faster than he was but he had ex pros at both regionals he qualified for and missed the cut... Remove the ex pros and he is back in the gate in 1 of them and 2 spots out in the other....
Not objectively true about ALL former pro's being legends. Brownie probably qualifies for that title though. Wink
8/7/2017 10:44am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 11:25am
Rhody wrote:
I have a couple of thoughts, but I am a non rider, so just disregard what I post: TDeath 21 earlier posted about sprint cars. I...
I have a couple of thoughts, but I am a non rider, so just disregard what I post:

TDeath 21 earlier posted about sprint cars. I race sprint cars, and I often line up next to full time pro's backed by million dollar plus teams. And there is money on the line, so I am getting beat out of money by these guys, but it is what it is. I can go race nothing races for pocket change if I want easy wins. If I want to win something meaningful I have to go up against the bad asses and their bad ass budgets. I could also move down a class, but I have no desire to do that. If you can't hang, get a new hobby. In MX parlance, get a quad.

Also, I used to play hockey. I never played organized hockey at a high level. I played a lot of pickup games. Some of the pickup games included former NHL players, former European pros, former Division 1 college players, high school players, 25 year old beginners, 12 year old kids, whatever. Seeing the old pro's in the locker room, my thought process was never "Oh crap, I'm gonna get my ass kicked" it was always-" This is gonna be a good game". Sure, I didn't get to touch the puck as much, and I couldn't make as many plays, but the plays I made meant more to me because I knew that I was playing with the best.

If I am going to spend 10k and take a week out of my schedule I want to race the best. I figure I can whip tomato cans in my own backyard.
deleted and elaborated below.
mx317
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8/7/2017 10:54am
Erek_Kudla wrote:
Because at Loretta Lynn's they're not allowed to race any A classes, when in reality, they are absolutely eligible to race any A class by AMA...
Because at Loretta Lynn's they're not allowed to race any A classes, when in reality, they are absolutely eligible to race any A class by AMA rules. The week's program only allows an ex-pro to race 25+ and 40+...
They can race 50+ also, if they are 50.
Rhody
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8/7/2017 11:06am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 11:11am
deleted and elaborated below.
I'll have to admit, not being an actual MX guy, I probably don't have a good perspective on what LL is all about. I did actually think it was about racing top amateurs. Which I do realize gets into a grey area since these guys are former pro's and like the old Olympic rules, once a pro always a pro.

Per my hockey experience, I was not going to the NHL. I got hit by a car at 15 and lost my chance to play High school hockey, plus I was way too small. I didn't reach 5'6" until I was 21. That being the case, these former pro's playing in the same pickup game as me was the chance to experience playing high level hockey. These guys were not household names, but they were good, and now I know what it feels like to play hockey at that speed. and I am glad to have that experience, which I would not have had otherwise.

Mike Brown may just be out there to have fun too. There is a difference between a national and an over 40 race. If Mike goes to a national, he may line up against a kid willing to break his leg for a point scoring position. In an over 40 race, everybody has to go to work tomorrow. I have had that problem in hockey games, those old pro's are going into the office the next day like me. I have had high school kids twice my size blast me through the glass because they were trying to prove something. I was in my 30's and didn't want any of that shit.

I listened to Keefer's podcast, and I thought he hit the nail on the head when he said lining up at Loretta's was a win in itself, and I would see the opportunity to line up next to a legend as icing on the cake.
8/7/2017 11:10am
within reason, you never "lose" your speed assuming you're a relatively healthy person etc. Seems to me that giving the glory to people who never had...
within reason, you never "lose" your speed assuming you're a relatively healthy person etc.

Seems to me that giving the glory to people who never had a shot at any level of professional racing is a really cool opportunity for someone. You don't simply "get faster" than mike brown.

Having an ex pro class would create a class with tons of hype, probably bring out more ex pros and in turn allow some 28 year old kid you've never heard of to win a title for the first time in his life as opposed to mike brown winning his 40th title.

Mike Brown hasn't done a single thing wrong in my eyes, however. He's simply racing the class he ought to be as per the sanctioning body and I'm sure he's having a great time doing it. Happy to see him out there.
bama205 wrote:
Yeah, that's what the C class is for. I think the solution is the make the 25+ the only age class a former pro can run...
Yeah, that's what the C class is for.

I think the solution is the make the 25+ the only age class a former pro can run. Then have the older classes be no-pros allowed.

The guys in 25+ can run C, B, and 30/45 later on without having to race against ryan dungey.
Only problem there is how you define pro or non pro. Right now thwy define it as have the ever scored ama pro points. Take a 45 yr old who got back into racing within the last year because he got his kids into it. He sat on the couch 15 years but started riding again. Just because he scored a few points 15 years ago youre gonna make him race the +25 which is half full of current pro sport riders?
8/7/2017 11:13am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 11:35am
Rhody wrote:
I'll have to admit, not being an actual MX guy, I probably don't have a good perspective on what LL is all about. I did actually...
I'll have to admit, not being an actual MX guy, I probably don't have a good perspective on what LL is all about. I did actually think it was about racing top amateurs. Which I do realize gets into a grey area since these guys are former pro's and like the old Olympic rules, once a pro always a pro.

Per my hockey experience, I was not going to the NHL. I got hit by a car at 15 and lost my chance to play High school hockey, plus I was way too small. I didn't reach 5'6" until I was 21. That being the case, these former pro's playing in the same pickup game as me was the chance to experience playing high level hockey. These guys were not household names, but they were good, and now I know what it feels like to play hockey at that speed. and I am glad to have that experience, which I would not have had otherwise.

Mike Brown may just be out there to have fun too. There is a difference between a national and an over 40 race. If Mike goes to a national, he may line up against a kid willing to break his leg for a point scoring position. In an over 40 race, everybody has to go to work tomorrow. I have had that problem in hockey games, those old pro's are going into the office the next day like me. I have had high school kids twice my size blast me through the glass because they were trying to prove something. I was in my 30's and didn't want any of that shit.

I listened to Keefer's podcast, and I thought he hit the nail on the head when he said lining up at Loretta's was a win in itself, and I would see the opportunity to line up next to a legend as icing on the cake.
These guys aren't just showing up to these races for a week. They have factory support. They've been doing this all year. They have been employed, even recently as pro racers. There's actual money/parts/bikes being thrown around. And you k'now what. I don't care about any of that from a competitive standpoint....

But let's not pretend they're some guy showing up to your local pickup hockey game.
jeffro503
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8/7/2017 11:24am
500guy wrote:
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event. If you want to brag that you are in the top 40...
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event.

If you want to brag that you are in the top 40 fasted 40+-50+ that should include anyone who qualifies under the rules.

The rules are there from the beginning they don't change them during the year. it seems like a non issue.
Exactly what Jay said!

If you start excluding riders , then guess what? The championship remains hollow and means absolutely nothing.

Ex-pro's that still want to race here and there....excluding them is just beyond stupid. They deserved the right to be there.

I like what Jay said earlier too , which holds true in any class...." You want a trophy , get faster ".

If you go to a big AM race like this , you better bring your A-game. Some of the guys you are racing with started bringing their A-game 10 , 20 , 30 years ago......where were you? Sit down , shut up and take your lumps like a man , and then feel privileged that you got to race against some legends in this sport.
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pilotdude
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8/7/2017 12:07pm
500guy wrote:
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event. If you want to brag that you are in the top 40...
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event.

If you want to brag that you are in the top 40 fasted 40+-50+ that should include anyone who qualifies under the rules.

The rules are there from the beginning they don't change them during the year. it seems like a non issue.
jeffro503 wrote:
Exactly what Jay said! If you start excluding riders , then guess what? The championship remains hollow and means absolutely nothing. Ex-pro's that still want to...
Exactly what Jay said!

If you start excluding riders , then guess what? The championship remains hollow and means absolutely nothing.

Ex-pro's that still want to race here and there....excluding them is just beyond stupid. They deserved the right to be there.

I like what Jay said earlier too , which holds true in any class...." You want a trophy , get faster ".

If you go to a big AM race like this , you better bring your A-game. Some of the guys you are racing with started bringing their A-game 10 , 20 , 30 years ago......where were you? Sit down , shut up and take your lumps like a man , and then feel privileged that you got to race against some legends in this sport.
I'm tired you of lecturing everyone all the time. You act like a condescending ass more often than not. Have you ever raced at LLs? I have. I raced against Doug Dubach who was a Factory Yamaha rider and against Trampas Parker, who was a world fucking champion.

I've never been a pro, I will never be a pro, and I sure as HELL was never a factory pro, AMA national champion, or FIM world champion. I will NEVER possess the skills they did and DO today. They get bike and gear support like I will NEVER have when they decide to race at the national AMATEUR championships.

This whole situation has been obscene and a travesty for a long time, and there is no convincing those who are big enough assholes to say, "sit down, shut up, and take your lumps like a man." I didn't race at LL's to race against the former best pros in the world, I went to race an AMATEUR championship against...oh I don't know...AMATEURS.

There should clearly be a class for former AMA/FIM pros. There isn't, and they make some rule that says that after 5 years the fastest pros in the world get to race against people who have never been pros.

It's bullshit of the highest order if anyone is trying to be fair. If you aren't worried about fairness, than it's not an issue.
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wildbill
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8/7/2017 12:17pm
500guy wrote:
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event. If you want to brag that you are in the top 40...
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event.

If you want to brag that you are in the top 40 fasted 40+-50+ that should include anyone who qualifies under the rules.

The rules are there from the beginning they don't change them during the year. it seems like a non issue.
jeffro503 wrote:
Exactly what Jay said! If you start excluding riders , then guess what? The championship remains hollow and means absolutely nothing. Ex-pro's that still want to...
Exactly what Jay said!

If you start excluding riders , then guess what? The championship remains hollow and means absolutely nothing.

Ex-pro's that still want to race here and there....excluding them is just beyond stupid. They deserved the right to be there.

I like what Jay said earlier too , which holds true in any class...." You want a trophy , get faster ".

If you go to a big AM race like this , you better bring your A-game. Some of the guys you are racing with started bringing their A-game 10 , 20 , 30 years ago......where were you? Sit down , shut up and take your lumps like a man , and then feel privileged that you got to race against some legends in this sport.
pilotdude wrote:
I'm tired you of lecturing everyone all the time. You act like a condescending ass more often than not. Have you ever raced at LLs? I...
I'm tired you of lecturing everyone all the time. You act like a condescending ass more often than not. Have you ever raced at LLs? I have. I raced against Doug Dubach who was a Factory Yamaha rider and against Trampas Parker, who was a world fucking champion.

I've never been a pro, I will never be a pro, and I sure as HELL was never a factory pro, AMA national champion, or FIM world champion. I will NEVER possess the skills they did and DO today. They get bike and gear support like I will NEVER have when they decide to race at the national AMATEUR championships.

This whole situation has been obscene and a travesty for a long time, and there is no convincing those who are big enough assholes to say, "sit down, shut up, and take your lumps like a man." I didn't race at LL's to race against the former best pros in the world, I went to race an AMATEUR championship against...oh I don't know...AMATEURS.

There should clearly be a class for former AMA/FIM pros. There isn't, and they make some rule that says that after 5 years the fastest pros in the world get to race against people who have never been pros.

It's bullshit of the highest order if anyone is trying to be fair. If you aren't worried about fairness, than it's not an issue.
No, but you're still an asshole, just like you were at shougie when I met you on the finish line bleachers. Haven't met Jeff yet, so my opinion remains reserved. Wink
500guy
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8/7/2017 12:33pm
wildbill wrote:
No, but you're still an asshole, just like you were at shougie when I met you on the finish line bleachers. Haven't met Jeff yet, so...
No, but you're still an asshole, just like you were at shougie when I met you on the finish line bleachers. Haven't met Jeff yet, so my opinion remains reserved. Wink
Got to admit it was a hell of a rant.Cool
wildbill
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8/7/2017 12:40pm
wildbill wrote:
No, but you're still an asshole, just like you were at shougie when I met you on the finish line bleachers. Haven't met Jeff yet, so...
No, but you're still an asshole, just like you were at shougie when I met you on the finish line bleachers. Haven't met Jeff yet, so my opinion remains reserved. Wink
500guy wrote:
Got to admit it was a hell of a rant.Cool

Ego's run amuck among racers like us Jay. Smile
kb-450
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8/7/2017 12:44pm
Dirt222 wrote:
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or...
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or C rider in any class start thinking they are a National Champion. The top riders are in the A class. They are the only top riders every one else needs to face facts if you are older than 25 and are still not a A class rider you are the ones who need to sale your bikes and take up another hobby.
In my case I started when I was 37. I'll never be an A rider. Should I sell all my bikes?
8/7/2017 12:47pm
Dirt222 wrote:
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or...
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or C rider in any class start thinking they are a National Champion. The top riders are in the A class. They are the only top riders every one else needs to face facts if you are older than 25 and are still not a A class rider you are the ones who need to sale your bikes and take up another hobby.
kb-450 wrote:
In my case I started when I was 37. I'll never be an A rider. Should I sell all my bikes?
Yes. And buy into energy drink stock.
sgrimmxdad
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8/7/2017 12:53pm
sgrimmxdad wrote:
If you were once a pro you are a "legend." Call it what you want. Guys that were once professionals have no reason to be racing...
If you were once a pro you are a "legend." Call it what you want. Guys that were once professionals have no reason to be racing true amateurs, its really stupid. How many times have we heard that these guys never really lose much speed, mainly endurance. You can compare it to other sports, a PRO IS A PRO. If you had your pro card you where a pro.

I think it is cool to see them out racing but it just screws the shit out of the guys that would give anything to get a bib from the ranch. Guys that maybe never had the equipment or funds to do this when they were younger but have worked hard in life and would like to chase a dream. I know a guy that qualified for 40+ 2 years ago, he is much faster than he was but he had ex pros at both regionals he qualified for and missed the cut... Remove the ex pros and he is back in the gate in 1 of them and 2 spots out in the other....
wildbill wrote:
Not objectively true about ALL former pro's being legends. Brownie probably qualifies for that title though. Wink
To clarify, when I said "call it what you want" I meant why not just have a class or two as a draw for crowds and let them battle it out. I bet a few more would do it....
wildbill
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8/7/2017 1:04pm
And remember Jay, I met you at Hangtown at the top of the hill for our one, and possibly only moment of existence together. I'm trying to be non egotistical here and am struggling. I'm talkin bout pilottdude who was a complete, and lovable jackass at Washougie...
8/7/2017 1:05pm
Dirt222 wrote:
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or...
I love it when a 40 year old C rider is complaining about Mike Brown racing LLs. I have to ask when did a B or C rider in any class start thinking they are a National Champion. The top riders are in the A class. They are the only top riders every one else needs to face facts if you are older than 25 and are still not a A class rider you are the ones who need to sale your bikes and take up another hobby.
I don't like to post much, but wholly cow. This is just a really stupid opinion. I hope you are trolling.
pilotdude
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8/7/2017 1:09pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2017 1:12pm
wildbill wrote:
And remember Jay, I met you at Hangtown at the top of the hill for our one, and possibly only moment of existence together. I'm trying...
And remember Jay, I met you at Hangtown at the top of the hill for our one, and possibly only moment of existence together. I'm trying to be non egotistical here and am struggling. I'm talkin bout pilottdude who was a complete, and lovable jackass at Washougie...
You called me lovable. I am now content. Also, Jeffro know I love him, even when we get into it.
wildbill
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8/7/2017 1:33pm
I know he knows this at the most intrinsic level, for we are all one and the same. Quantum entanglement knows no bounds.
Francis377
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8/7/2017 1:38pm
Having a few former pros in the class makes it more interesting for everyone. I just don't see why Brown would want to race against these guys when he is so much better than them. Seems he could have more fun gettting some points at a national racing against real racers than completely smoking a whole field of amateurs (and clearly hurting the feelings of some
JB 19
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8/7/2017 1:39pm
500guy wrote:
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event. If you want to brag that you are in the top 40...
I get that it's an Amateur event but it's also a age based event.

If you want to brag that you are in the top 40 fasted 40+-50+ that should include anyone who qualifies under the rules.

The rules are there from the beginning they don't change them during the year. it seems like a non issue.
I'm curious how often you race....or hell, even ride. You sure like to tell the racers what's good for them.

If the local A vet guys should train harder and get faster, then couldn't that same analogy hold true for a former factory rider who didn't have a normal job for 12 years and instead trained like a cyborg to be a total badass....and still has connections to the best equipment in the sport?

I mean they should at least be able to do some training and be competitive in the 25+ class.

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