Mike Brown an amateur and a pro at the same time??

10/25/2017 8:10pm
I dont race locally anymore because of all the addition to VET "D, C, B". Rather than just VET. Everyone thinks they deserve a trophy. How...
I dont race locally anymore because of all the addition to VET "D, C, B". Rather than just VET.

Everyone thinks they deserve a trophy.

How long should a guy be required to race 18 year olds?
The irony is when a guy like brownie, carmichael, reynord etc beat the youngsters it's considered "unfair" even then.
Maybe its just a sign the youngster doesn't have what it takes.


I love the fact a nobody like me can line up with a chance to race some formerly bad ass dudes. That is the ONLY driving force for me to bother with lorettas. Who would want to say they "won" a "national championship" against a "limited field" that doesn't allow all people to race in the age group. At that point it's not a national championship, and isn't worthy of lorettas.

Loretta's is a showcase for upcoming talent, and a big event where truly tough competition can be found for old/former talent rather than just local races. Guys like reynard have something fun to continue working towards once a year...and it's neat to see how the talent of "old" stacks up vs the new talent via laptimes.

The contrasting style of a vet guy vs a 16-17 year old A kid is amazing - despite the fact that often times the vet guys go just as fast. To me - it's a lesson the younger kids should watch and learn. Speed isn't scrubs or rev limiters.

The "world" vets ins't half the vet class that lorettas is (not saying the winners there couldn't win loretta's)

Brown is a bad ass because he had a talent AND work ethic, toughness etc. He is still a bad ass because he continues to work harder than people. He also takes massive risk at age 45+ to race as serious as he does. Hitting straight rhythm after so many years off from SX type racing is just INSANE.












There wouldnt be a need for four different VET classes if the regular C class was an actual C class. I agree with you, VET should...
There wouldnt be a need for four different VET classes if the regular C class was an actual C class.

I agree with you, VET should be what you described it should be. Unfortunately, creating VET C & D classes is the only opportunity for actual novices to race against other novices.
I somewhat agree

I think the word "novice" and "intermediate" need to be dropped from racing, and we need a beginner class that truly caters to those who are new and don't jump at alll

However at lorettas.. the c,b and a classes have exactly the gap in speed every year They should.

I've worked for families accused of sand bagging for c class who practically lap second place locally who went to lorettas and got 10-20. In addition to that they are 15-18 seconds a lap off top 3-5 a times and 3-4 seconds a lap off of being the last place regional qualifier in b class.

one major issue in our sport is kids don't want to go a class anymore. It used to be as soon as you possibly could go a, and not be dead last everywhere you moved up...and the class has more turn out...which made the payout nice.

I don't know that answer... as the numbers just aren't there of riders anymore to have 30-40 rider state level a gates.
10/25/2017 9:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2017 11:20am
I somewhat agree I think the word "novice" and "intermediate" need to be dropped from racing, and we need a beginner class that truly caters to...
I somewhat agree

I think the word "novice" and "intermediate" need to be dropped from racing, and we need a beginner class that truly caters to those who are new and don't jump at alll

However at lorettas.. the c,b and a classes have exactly the gap in speed every year They should.

I've worked for families accused of sand bagging for c class who practically lap second place locally who went to lorettas and got 10-20. In addition to that they are 15-18 seconds a lap off top 3-5 a times and 3-4 seconds a lap off of being the last place regional qualifier in b class.

one major issue in our sport is kids don't want to go a class anymore. It used to be as soon as you possibly could go a, and not be dead last everywhere you moved up...and the class has more turn out...which made the payout nice.

I don't know that answer... as the numbers just aren't there of riders anymore to have 30-40 rider state level a gates.
You just explained the problem and exactly why there arent 30-40 rider gates at the state level in A class.

Those supposed C riders at Lorrettas that are 3-4seconds off the B lap times? That doesnt make them C riders. That makes them slow B riders that shouldnt have even qualified for Lorrettas. Watch them ride. They dont pass the eye test. They arent "novices". They are slow intermediates. They dont have novice skills or novice equipment.

When you let them stay down in a class where they dont belong, it chases would be noobs from ever considering entering a race in the C class.

And those B guys that are allowed to race B despite having large family budgets and traveling the country on the amateur circuit? They belong in the A class. That's why the A class isnt full. And that's why would be B's wont move up.

The answer is easy, the sanctioning body needs to step in and enforce a system for moving people up. Sure it will piss off the occasional guy that doesnt want to be moved up. But for every guy that is sandbagging that the sport caters too, it chases out lots of would be new blood from the sport. For example, look at the sport of tennis. It has probably the worst sandbagging of any sport I know. They have a rating system that nobody abides by. Serious players that are going for amateur national titles have this scam they run where they play one year, do well, advance far at the national championships, and after getting automatically bumped up at the end of the year, they stop playing competitively for 2 years and just train. So that they can apply to be put back down at the lowest level at the end of the 2 years. Then they come back and dominate all the way to the nationals. It's sorta insane. But at the end of the day, anyone that actually is a beginner gets smoked at tournaments. So why would they ever enter them. And so the USTA sits there and wonders why numbers are down on a sport that is relatively cheap to do and should have massive participation at tournaments. It's pretty fucking obvious why players avoid competing.

If the layman cannot tell the difference between a expert, intermediate, and novice from just watching the race, that is a big problem if your goal is to attract new blood into any sport.

From a business perspective, the answer is obvious also. Cater to the noobs that you are trying to get hooked. Not the guys that already addicted to the sport whom arent going away.
JustMX
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TN US
10/26/2017 5:26am
honda907 wrote:
My problem isn't with Brown. It's cool that he's a monster. He is within the rules. He's not my problem. Read it again. It's the classification...
My problem isn't with Brown. It's cool that he's a monster. He is within the rules. He's not my problem. Read it again.

It's the classification of what caliber a racer is. Professional or amature.

Who makes up these rules. Brown is legal in all ways but how is this classification structured when a guy races amature one month and a pro last weekend at another. It is just confusing how the AMA classified a rider today.

Who makes up these rules? Is it a lottery type deal ( sarcasim).
You want confusing?

Take a look at factory amateur contingency programs.

Am riders can not receive money under any circumstances or the lose their amateur status.

However, they can receive a debit card for which they can receive cash without any problem. It isn't even a hush hush deal like when dealers would buy certificates for cash even though it said specifically not to do so on the certificates.
MX-LIFE.
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10/26/2017 5:59am
DC wrote:
MX-LIFE wrote Hey DC, how is it that he can't race a AMA National or a SX race? Lack of funding or age? He can enter...
MX-LIFE wrote Hey DC, how is it that he can't race a AMA National or a SX race? Lack of funding or age?

He can enter a National or SX, but then he can't race Loretta Lynn's if he qualifies for the actual event for a full year.

And I remember that, it was the old Fox Theater?

DC
Racer X
What's up DC..it was the old Detroit train station off Michigan Ave.. we were just outside the Mercury Bar. It's the old Train station where Eminem filmed the movie 8 Mile.! I saw you standing in the middle of the street taking pics. You were here attending or promoting a race event I believe!

The Shop

bama205
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Williamson County, TN US
10/26/2017 6:10am
honda907 wrote:
I don't think most of you guys read my post. I wasn't complaining about Brownie at all. Go read the first post. Some of you talk...
I don't think most of you guys read my post. I wasn't complaining about Brownie at all. Go read the first post.


Some of you talk a lot of crap. You want to race the best guys in the world, go race the MX Nationals and stop talking a bunch of crap about lining up with the best. Lining up with a Brown today isn't lining up with the best like Tomac. Brown is a bad dude, but some of you guys come off like your the best dang thing that ever rode next to Brown and RC and stuff.

First I want to say that my brother, Chris Lykens, at 48 rode the USGP at WW ranch this year, so he puts ALL you old geezers to shame.!!!!!! ALL of you. And he did it with broken ribs. Many of you just talk crap about riding with the best. My family does it. We are all old as sin, but I ride and race lot at 57, ( mostly non AMA anymore) but never intend to go to Loretta's. I could care less. Did it once about 30 years ago. Didn't enjoy it-damn place was to freaking hot.

Some just need to come off their high horses and stop complaining about someone just asking a simple question. I just asked a question about who makes these rules and how much the factories are involved in rule making since this seems like a problem (You guy sure are touchy about this- see lots of threads about it) as well as 2 strokes and some other things that benefit the factories.

Need some critical thinking here to get the local scene back to snuff or the whole industry is gonna pay for it soon. Local racing needs some help.
bama205 wrote:
I don't think you want to hear the answers that are being given. RBSR- not an AMA Race. So it's a false argument and the question...
I don't think you want to hear the answers that are being given.

RBSR- not an AMA Race. So it's a false argument and the question is void.

LL- there are some classes that are for former pros/vets.

What's the GD problem ?
honda907 wrote:
Who votes these rules in? The factories sitting on the AMA board?? That's my question. The rules seem to benefit the factories quite a bit. Just...
Who votes these rules in? The factories sitting on the AMA board?? That's my question. The rules seem to benefit the factories quite a bit. Just like the "Claiming" rule in the 70's. It was there then poof!! It was gone.Who does this? A committee and who is on the committee if they do this???

I guess that's what I want answered by someone that knows something other than normal keyboard posers .............
What rules? That there is a class that allows pros?
nc_mx_kid
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10/26/2017 1:12pm
Racers Race, Kudos to Mike Brown for racing a dirtbike for employment for however many years he has and I hope he can continue to do so for years to come.

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