Members-only track concept - Portland, OR area

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5/7/2019 11:15 AM

I'm having a little fantasy about starting up a members-only track, not for public access.

I have a 5-10 acre spot (with irrigation water) picked out, West side, and I have access to an almost unlimited amount of clean fill. I thought I'd post here to see if there'd be enough real interest (meaning $$$) to pursue seriously. If there is, I'd take some steps to see about gaining access to the land and getting fill delivered. Build and prep are easy after that. I'm hoping the landowner would be interested in leasing it (it's unused and not generating any income) for some 5-10 years. That's critical task #1.

I'm thinking 5-10 charter members at a $5k buy in. That gives you unlimited ride access April thru November for you and 3 guests.
Then maybe another 25-50 VIP memberships at a $1k buy in. That might give you 15-20 ride days for you and a guest. I'd expect dues to be cheaper in year 2+ depending on costs.

All members would be responsible for their own liability and medical insurance. Waiver would state that landowner and other members are not responsible for damages, yada yada yada.

Is this whacked? I'm sure there's many ways it could be blocked, but it sure ain't gonna happen if I don't try.

Hammer 663s

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5/7/2019 11:26 AM

In my area, good luck just finding any one to come and ride for free.

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5/7/2019 11:30 AM

We definitely need a track on the west side, I think it would attract more riders than Mtn View does out in sandy, we have a lot of riders out in this area.

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5/7/2019 11:39 AM

Why cap the number of members? I’ve been a member of a track that operated like that. They just required you go to a meeting and pay about $300 a year and you got a key to the gate. Show up whenever you want and turn on the sprinklers in the summer. Track wasn’t always prepped but we didn’t expect perfection at all times, just a decent place to ride and practice.

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5/7/2019 11:52 AM

Opmc in port Angeles is a member only track maybe check with them what they did to be successful. It's been around for a long time occasionally they have open practice days for non members.

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5/7/2019 11:55 AM

We have a private track in Utah “OCA”, the land is owned “almost” by the club, the water is automated. $500/yr or working members, $1000/yr for non-working members.

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5/7/2019 12:02 PM

Would be cool but task #1 seems like a very large task.

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5/7/2019 12:05 PM

Spat24 wrote:

Would be cool but task #1 seems like a very large task.

I'm just going to stop by and ask. If they say no, there it is. Maybe they ride.

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5/7/2019 12:31 PM

I am a member of a long running club in the King county area, and we have a track that is private for members and guests only. It can work, but I think it might be difficult at those kind of asking prices to buy in. For me personally, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't be worth the initial investment that you have extremely limited control over, but there might be some willing to buy.

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Go Hawks!

5/7/2019 1:05 PM

mx510 wrote:

I am a member of a long running club in the King county area, and we have a track that is private for members and guests only. It can work, but I think it might be difficult at those kind of asking prices to buy in. For me personally, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't be worth the initial investment that you have extremely limited control over, but there might be some willing to buy.

Those are just WAGS on $$$. It all depends on land lease and dirt delivery costs. It could be less. There's a lot of money in this area - $1k buy in ain't much for many here. Course, most of them don't ride.

I just need a big lottery win, then I can stop screwing around.

M

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5/8/2019 10:49 AM

Hammer 663s wrote:

I'm having a little fantasy about starting up a members-only track, not for public access.

I have a 5-10 acre spot (with irrigation water) picked out, West side, and I have access to an almost unlimited amount of clean fill. I thought I'd post here to see if there'd be enough real interest (meaning $$$) to pursue seriously. If there is, I'd take some steps to see about gaining access to the land and getting fill delivered. Build and prep are easy after that. I'm hoping the landowner would be interested in leasing it (it's unused and not generating any income) for some 5-10 years. That's critical task #1.

I'm thinking 5-10 charter members at a $5k buy in. That gives you unlimited ride access April thru November for you and 3 guests.
Then maybe another 25-50 VIP memberships at a $1k buy in. That might give you 15-20 ride days for you and a guest. I'd expect dues to be cheaper in year 2+ depending on costs.

All members would be responsible for their own liability and medical insurance. Waiver would state that landowner and other members are not responsible for damages, yada yada yada.

Is this whacked? I'm sure there's many ways it could be blocked, but it sure ain't gonna happen if I don't try.

Hammer 663s

Biggest problem I see is that it's too far from me. Do this in Seattle please (where the county and neighbors will shut you down anyway).

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5/8/2019 11:39 AM

I've hashed this idea around with a few people although since we already have a private track already in SW WA I was more thinking east a ways so there would be a place to ride during wet months. Find a chunk of slightly remote land Dalles-Goldendale type area. Non-buildable so cheap & build a winter track on it.
Over in the PDX area you will have sound issues, land use issues, etc for most any easily accessible piece of land unfortunately. So what if landowner agrees to a 5 year lease and track gets shut down by municipality after a year or so? It's a great idea in theory but I see a lot that could go wrong, unfortunately........

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5/8/2019 11:45 AM

Tracktor wrote:

I've hashed this idea around with a few people although since we already have a private track already in SW WA I was more thinking east a ways so there would be a place to ride during wet months. Find a chunk of slightly remote land Dalles-Goldendale type area. Non-buildable so cheap & build a winter track on it.
Over in the PDX area you will have sound issues, land use issues, etc for most any easily accessible piece of land unfortunately. So what if landowner agrees to a 5 year lease and track gets shut down by municipality after a year or so? It's a great idea in theory but I see a lot that could go wrong, unfortunately........

Yeah, noise/dust are the 2 things that could be an issue. If there is a lease possibility my next stop will be the county to check regs for use. I know a few people there from a major commercial construction project we have going on. It is zoned ag/light industrial right now with not many neighbors. If I can only run certain days/times that's still ok with me. I recognize there are more ways for it to go wrong than not, but I have a dream....

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5/8/2019 11:52 AM

mx510 wrote:

I am a member of a long running club in the King county area, and we have a track that is private for members and guests only. It can work, but I think it might be difficult at those kind of asking prices to buy in. For me personally, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't be worth the initial investment that you have extremely limited control over, but there might be some willing to buy.

Hammer 663s wrote:

Those are just WAGS on $$$. It all depends on land lease and dirt delivery costs. It could be less. There's a lot of money in this area - $1k buy in ain't much for many here. Course, most of them don't ride.

I just need a big lottery win, then I can stop screwing around.

M

MX510 has a good point here.
I'll add a few things to think about, but don't take it as shitting on your idea, just constructive input.

You might consider that the typical track entry fee is $30 - $40 a day and that you'll get no more than 40 out of 52 good weekends in the year to ride. Most people ride one day per week at most.

So, the most generous track fee budget might be around $1200 to $1600 a year (for non-racers).

If you expect to get more than that from members, you'll have to offer a top notch facility and a limited number of bikes on the track on a given day.

For guys like myself, variety of tracks is everything. To keep my skills sharp, I want to ride all kinds of different layouts, soils and conditions. Most of the club type tracks keep the same layout for years at a time. Also, once you've bought in, it becomes a default track to go to most of the time. I'm really big on variety, although I know there are plenty of one-track riders.

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5/8/2019 12:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/8/2019 12:03 PM

mx510 wrote:

I am a member of a long running club in the King county area, and we have a track that is private for members and guests only. It can work, but I think it might be difficult at those kind of asking prices to buy in. For me personally, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't be worth the initial investment that you have extremely limited control over, but there might be some willing to buy.

Hammer 663s wrote:

Those are just WAGS on $$$. It all depends on land lease and dirt delivery costs. It could be less. There's a lot of money in this area - $1k buy in ain't much for many here. Course, most of them don't ride.

I just need a big lottery win, then I can stop screwing around.

M

cwtoyota wrote:

MX510 has a good point here.
I'll add a few things to think about, but don't take it as shitting on your idea, just constructive input.

You might consider that the typical track entry fee is $30 - $40 a day and that you'll get no more than 40 out of 52 good weekends in the year to ride. Most people ride one day per week at most.

So, the most generous track fee budget might be around $1200 to $1600 a year (for non-racers).

If you expect to get more than that from members, you'll have to offer a top notch facility and a limited number of bikes on the track on a given day.

For guys like myself, variety of tracks is everything. To keep my skills sharp, I want to ride all kinds of different layouts, soils and conditions. Most of the club type tracks keep the same layout for years at a time. Also, once you've bought in, it becomes a default track to go to most of the time. I'm really big on variety, although I know there are plenty of one-track riders.

All good input - no one has shit on it yet.

We get nowhere near 40 weekend here. I figure April to November with luck. If I design it right, I can build it so it's pretty easy to reverse, or add/remove sections. I have access to so much fill I could build 10 full scale pro-level SX tracks, so I can stockpile extra for later use.

My goal would be to deliver a high-quality design with the best dirt around and prep at 2x a month. I know I can do that since I've done it before, although on a smaller scale. Since there are really only 5-6 tracks in the region, and none West of Portland, I think demand might be decent. I like variety too, but some of the tracks in the area have limited operations and there are nice summer weekends where nothing is open.

I just looked at the zoning for the place and they recently permitted a dozen commercial pot grow buildings. Out of 98 acres they are using maybe 10, and the rest is abandoned former nursery grounds.

A $200 mil lottery win would solve a lot of my problems.

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5/8/2019 12:32 PM

Hammer 663s wrote:

Those are just WAGS on $$$. It all depends on land lease and dirt delivery costs. It could be less. There's a lot of money in this area - $1k buy in ain't much for many here. Course, most of them don't ride.

I just need a big lottery win, then I can stop screwing around.

M

cwtoyota wrote:

MX510 has a good point here.
I'll add a few things to think about, but don't take it as shitting on your idea, just constructive input.

You might consider that the typical track entry fee is $30 - $40 a day and that you'll get no more than 40 out of 52 good weekends in the year to ride. Most people ride one day per week at most.

So, the most generous track fee budget might be around $1200 to $1600 a year (for non-racers).

If you expect to get more than that from members, you'll have to offer a top notch facility and a limited number of bikes on the track on a given day.

For guys like myself, variety of tracks is everything. To keep my skills sharp, I want to ride all kinds of different layouts, soils and conditions. Most of the club type tracks keep the same layout for years at a time. Also, once you've bought in, it becomes a default track to go to most of the time. I'm really big on variety, although I know there are plenty of one-track riders.

Hammer 663s wrote:

All good input - no one has shit on it yet.

We get nowhere near 40 weekend here. I figure April to November with luck. If I design it right, I can build it so it's pretty easy to reverse, or add/remove sections. I have access to so much fill I could build 10 full scale pro-level SX tracks, so I can stockpile extra for later use.

My goal would be to deliver a high-quality design with the best dirt around and prep at 2x a month. I know I can do that since I've done it before, although on a smaller scale. Since there are really only 5-6 tracks in the region, and none West of Portland, I think demand might be decent. I like variety too, but some of the tracks in the area have limited operations and there are nice summer weekends where nothing is open.

I just looked at the zoning for the place and they recently permitted a dozen commercial pot grow buildings. Out of 98 acres they are using maybe 10, and the rest is abandoned former nursery grounds.

A $200 mil lottery win would solve a lot of my problems.

I always say that you've got to play the lottery to win it... I've never bought a ticket in my life.

Totally agree that it's nowhere near 40 weekends that most folks would ride, I was being a bit generous just to make the point.

If you have access to sandy-fill, that extends your number of weekends a bit since somee of those days are not too rainy to ride, but the soil remains too wet from rain during the week. Build an old-school sand-track on the property for those rainy days and winter months.

I have a little track on my land with a high sand content in the soil. I do some riding here during November, December and January when most of the big tracks are closed. It's also built on a bit of a hill and I take measures to prevent places for water to pool up. I'm just a little farther north, up here in WA.

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5/8/2019 12:59 PM

mx510 wrote:

I am a member of a long running club in the King county area, and we have a track that is private for members and guests only. It can work, but I think it might be difficult at those kind of asking prices to buy in. For me personally, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't be worth the initial investment that you have extremely limited control over, but there might be some willing to buy.

Would love to know more about that club if you can share info.

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5/8/2019 2:12 PM

Forgot the jokers who won't pay 30 bucks to ride for a day. I guess they have never been to a ski hill.

I like the higher price model but would limit the guest to 1 and offer a paddock. Lets say I buy in for 5k, if that was unlimited access for me and a guest and a 150 sq foot container space to call my own, I would do it in a heartbeat. You should still tack on an annual fee at a lesser rate after the first year, imo.

I would also be more than willing to pay 1k a year for unlimited access. The OCA model in Ogden Utah has been very successful.

Any recreational endeavour makes money on the real estate and hospitality, keep that in mind. If you break even with this thing, you are doing well.

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5/8/2019 3:56 PM

Tracktor wrote:

I've hashed this idea around with a few people although since we already have a private track already in SW WA I was more thinking east a ways so there would be a place to ride during wet months. Find a chunk of slightly remote land Dalles-Goldendale type area. Non-buildable so cheap & build a winter track on it.
Over in the PDX area you will have sound issues, land use issues, etc for most any easily accessible piece of land unfortunately. So what if landowner agrees to a 5 year lease and track gets shut down by municipality after a year or so? It's a great idea in theory but I see a lot that could go wrong, unfortunately........

Hammer 663s wrote:

Yeah, noise/dust are the 2 things that could be an issue. If there is a lease possibility my next stop will be the county to check regs for use. I know a few people there from a major commercial construction project we have going on. It is zoned ag/light industrial right now with not many neighbors. If I can only run certain days/times that's still ok with me. I recognize there are more ways for it to go wrong than not, but I have a dream....

Im certainly not trying to be a downer. I am a huge believer in the benefit of having a private place to ride whenever you want. It's helped both my boys become pretty fast local riders even against the the "unlimited funds" riders. My youngest rides motos every day he can (probably riding right now getting ready for PIR)

The NW is just an odd place for tracks. Especially in the last few years most of the prep has gone to crap. Our personal set-up has bigger jumps/sections/better prep by orders of magnitude than any other track in this area. And is safer even with all that. Having control over what is built & who rides it is worth every penny. I think the private "club" would work but I would personally look more remote if it was me. Oh what I could build in the hills around a place like Eddieville-

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5/8/2019 6:12 PM

Tracktor wrote:

Im certainly not trying to be a downer. I am a huge believer in the benefit of having a private place to ride whenever you want. It's helped both my boys become pretty fast local riders even against the the "unlimited funds" riders. My youngest rides motos every day he can (probably riding right now getting ready for PIR)

The NW is just an odd place for tracks. Especially in the last few years most of the prep has gone to crap. Our personal set-up has bigger jumps/sections/better prep by orders of magnitude than any other track in this area. And is safer even with all that. Having control over what is built & who rides it is worth every penny. I think the private "club" would work but I would personally look more remote if it was me. Oh what I could build in the hills around a place like Eddieville-

Prep is one pf my main issues. I'm not gonna name specific tracks, but when you have a clay base you can't just till it and add water. It turns to shit real quick - one blue line and marbles everywhere else. An on occasion you have to rebuiild the faces, lips, and landings or the jumps don't work anymore. Plus, you have to give a landing that is more than 3' high and 3' long. Yes it takes dirt to do that, but most of us can't hit such a small window lap after lap.

I'll be blunt and say that NorCal operators are way, way better than PNW operators at build, maintenance, and prep. They put a lot of effort and $$$ into making the dirt good and building/rebuilding properly. Maybe that's cuase there's an 11 month riding season, and more riders, so more $$$ to do it right? Not sure.

If I do this, I want to follow their example. Hangtown, Club Moto, 408 (RIP), Hollister, The Oatfield, DT1 on their best days are beyond belief good. It can be done here too.

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5/8/2019 7:25 PM

@ Hammer........man this would be something I could be interested in possibly later down the road some time . One thing that's rough for private tracks is lack of water and regular maintenance. It's tough to go hit a private dust bowl , when you can hit one of about 8 tracks within a couple hour drive. Also kinda cuts out some of your long time riding buddies that may not be able to afford it. I do like your idea though , and definitely something to think about.

Btw....cool meeting you for those few seconds on the line down at Albany! Wish I had more time to talk , but we had to go roost!

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

5/8/2019 8:35 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

@ Hammer........man this would be something I could be interested in possibly later down the road some time . One thing that's rough for private tracks is lack of water and regular maintenance. It's tough to go hit a private dust bowl , when you can hit one of about 8 tracks within a couple hour drive. Also kinda cuts out some of your long time riding buddies that may not be able to afford it. I do like your idea though , and definitely something to think about.

Btw....cool meeting you for those few seconds on the line down at Albany! Wish I had more time to talk , but we had to go roost!

Jeffro:

The lot I'm looking at is on a large scale Ag water system and has a pond too. Water is key - every track I've personally run (3 so far) had water issues. I know of a track that got shut down due to dust blowing over a highway, and another one where the operator goes through 45,000 gal a day in the summer to manage it. With the right dirt prep you can reduce both water use and dust. It's why I like adding sawdust and mulch so much to the clay here.

I want to keep it as low cost as possible, but I'm not going out of pocket. I don't have that kind of money. I can rent a tractor/tiller for 2 days for $300 and 2x a month basic prep would do. 1x-2x a year with a dozer to rebuild major damage is another $1500. The real initial cost is delivery of the fill. I've no idea what it would cost to get 100,000 cubic yards on site.

I'll be at Albany again Saturday, then Washougal again next Saturday. PIR in between. It's moto season!!!

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5/8/2019 11:24 PM

Spat24 wrote:

Would be cool but task #1 seems like a very large task.

Hammer 663s wrote:

I'm just going to stop by and ask. If they say no, there it is. Maybe they ride.

If you get a yes - I am interested.

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5/9/2019 9:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/9/2019 9:56 AM

Hammer 663s wrote:

Prep is one pf my main issues. I'm not gonna name specific tracks, but when you have a clay base you can't just till it and add water. It turns to shit real quick - one blue line and marbles everywhere else. An on occasion you have to rebuiild the faces, lips, and landings or the jumps don't work anymore. Plus, you have to give a landing that is more than 3' high and 3' long. Yes it takes dirt to do that, but most of us can't hit such a small window lap after lap.

I'll be blunt and say that NorCal operators are way, way better than PNW operators at build, maintenance, and prep. They put a lot of effort and $$$ into making the dirt good and building/rebuilding properly. Maybe that's cuase there's an 11 month riding season, and more riders, so more $$$ to do it right? Not sure.

If I do this, I want to follow their example. Hangtown, Club Moto, 408 (RIP), Hollister, The Oatfield, DT1 on their best days are beyond belief good. It can be done here too.

The track you are referring to wasn't always like that. I have a bit of behind the scenes info as to why it's gone in that direction. Not sure we will see a change any time soon though. It's always been my favorite track and I built mine kind of based off of the way it used to be.

I agree on the sad state of prep. I've built a ton of track over the years including a season of AX at Clark County. It isn't rocket science but it is science. I think most NW tracks believe there are limited options so why do anything extra? The bar is set pretty low so no one pushes the limits for obstacles or prep. I've proved many times you can build big fun jumps that everyone from 50cc-pros can enjoy. Matching lips to landings is one of the biggest issues I see. PIR is a big example. That place has gone so far downhill for layout and conditions in the last ten years it's sad. There isn't a challenging section on the whole track. And challenging doesn't mean dangerous. It's a perfect example of the builders thinking that rip and drag is all that is needed week after week for years. The lips are so flat that they no longer slow riders down which makes it more dangerous, imo. The only track I see that is listening and adapting is The Rideg. Chris listens and tries different things trying to make it an epic place to ride. More NW tracks could take note and deliver what riders want not what is easiest...........

I will say we are fortunate to have a ground spring on our property to pull water from. I pull water into a trailer and am able to do a decent job of keeping dust down. I've also left trees up to help mitigate the dust and noise....

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5/9/2019 11:51 AM

Yeah, you are spot on on PIR. The dirt is pretty good but there isn't a lip to be seen and you have to be on the gas to make anything. It's sketchy since it's so small and you are in 2nd/3rd a lot. I'm not a big fan of having to grab a big handful of throttle at every jump just to make it.

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5/9/2019 12:08 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

@ Hammer........man this would be something I could be interested in possibly later down the road some time . One thing that's rough for private tracks is lack of water and regular maintenance. It's tough to go hit a private dust bowl , when you can hit one of about 8 tracks within a couple hour drive. Also kinda cuts out some of your long time riding buddies that may not be able to afford it. I do like your idea though , and definitely something to think about.

Btw....cool meeting you for those few seconds on the line down at Albany! Wish I had more time to talk , but we had to go roost!

Hammer 663s wrote:

Jeffro:

The lot I'm looking at is on a large scale Ag water system and has a pond too. Water is key - every track I've personally run (3 so far) had water issues. I know of a track that got shut down due to dust blowing over a highway, and another one where the operator goes through 45,000 gal a day in the summer to manage it. With the right dirt prep you can reduce both water use and dust. It's why I like adding sawdust and mulch so much to the clay here.

I want to keep it as low cost as possible, but I'm not going out of pocket. I don't have that kind of money. I can rent a tractor/tiller for 2 days for $300 and 2x a month basic prep would do. 1x-2x a year with a dozer to rebuild major damage is another $1500. The real initial cost is delivery of the fill. I've no idea what it would cost to get 100,000 cubic yards on site.

I'll be at Albany again Saturday, then Washougal again next Saturday. PIR in between. It's moto season!!!

100,000 cubic yards?

There are probably 6000- 8000 yards in a Supercross track, and that includes the base.

What are you going to build with 100000?

Hell, if they charged you $1/yard to cover fuel I think you may have a budget problem.

I am not familiar with stuff in the nw, are there that many projects going on that there is a,surplus of dirt that would be good for track building?

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5/9/2019 12:45 PM

JustMX wrote:

100,000 cubic yards?

There are probably 6000- 8000 yards in a Supercross track, and that includes the base.

What are you going to build with 100000?

Hell, if they charged you $1/yard to cover fuel I think you may have a budget problem.

I am not familiar with stuff in the nw, are there that many projects going on that there is a,surplus of dirt that would be good for track building?

Yeah, 100,000 might be too much. Unless I want to build a full size replica of Mt St. Helens.

We just put 30 foot of nice fill on a 200x200 yard pad at my company’s new build. It’s temp to surcharge (compress) the base for the building 2 pad. That’s 400,000 cubic yards. i can get some dirt.

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5/10/2019 8:44 AM

Here's my dirt pile. Somewhere between 400-500,000 cubic yards. Very clean clay/topsoil blend with few rocks. You could build a few tracks with this.



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5/10/2019 8:48 AM

Elizabeth city mx in North Carolina is a member only track like that. But their but in isn't as much and it's yearly. And you have to attend board meetings and work days.

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5/24/2019 8:12 PM

That is a cool idea, I definitely have struggled living in the pnw getting excited about track days. In Utah, you show up and ride the tracks until you get tired. Here, you've got split practices with a bunch of classes, so you don't get much time on the track. Anyways, that is a nice load of dirt you've got. I've been trying to get dirt delivered for some mountain bike jumps my backyard, but I'm having a hard time finding fill dirt. I've called around, but no luck yet. What is your dirt from? Maybe I can look for a similar situation closer to me in Independence where I can buy some.

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