Maybe the 2-stroke 'tards are right?

500guy
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Edited Date/Time 4/6/2012 10:10am
Stop evolving these bikes and start working on making them more affordable.

I mean a guy can have fun on most any modern bike 2strk or 4 strk who cares, get them back to $3500. -$4500 and lets go play.
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TX24
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4/2/2012 8:37am
I've thought about that before. Most MX people want the latest and greatest. One would think there would be more of a market between say a TTR 225 and a YZ250F.
mx_579
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4/2/2012 8:42am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2012 8:51am
I do agree with the point.
burn1986
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4/2/2012 8:47am
Well, the good thing is that Jay is back in the fold. The bad part is that Jay is back in the fold.

The Shop

4/2/2012 8:48am
I only have one question. Who does that make the Tard? The one's right or the one's who lived the lie... LOL
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 8:59am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2012 9:05am
yes! and hamburgers are too darned expensive, has anyone eaten at five guys? they are delicious, but a lot of money for a hamburger. Why do they keep getting more expensive? we should stop trying to evolve the hamburger and make them like this:

http://www.shorpy.com/node/3618


Also, one could purchase a chinese bike, those are cheaper and not so focused on "the latest and greatest". Asking the manufacturers to strip features and make a scaled-down version... what features would they pull? It's not like you can take out the power windows and air-conditioning. Am I over-simplifying this? Probably I'm not seeing the vision as-intended.
mx_579
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4/2/2012 9:04am
Pull out the valves and cam and efi
88sdad
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Poeville, NV US
4/2/2012 9:12am
yes! and hamburgers are too darned expensive, has anyone eaten at five guys? they are delicious, but a lot of money for a hamburger. Why do...
yes! and hamburgers are too darned expensive, has anyone eaten at five guys? they are delicious, but a lot of money for a hamburger. Why do they keep getting more expensive? we should stop trying to evolve the hamburger and make them like this:

http://www.shorpy.com/node/3618


Also, one could purchase a chinese bike, those are cheaper and not so focused on "the latest and greatest". Asking the manufacturers to strip features and make a scaled-down version... what features would they pull? It's not like you can take out the power windows and air-conditioning. Am I over-simplifying this? Probably I'm not seeing the vision as-intended.
Are you saying I should go try a burger at the new Five Guys that just opened?
newmann
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4/2/2012 9:12am
I am still of the opinion that a KTM non linkage chassis (think 2011 KTM150) with a 200cc mid level performing air cooled non powervalved engine and not necessarily top of the line components, brakes or suspension that retailed for $3999.00 would be a big hit and could be just the ticket to bring some people into or back to the sport. The aftermarket companies could provide the hop up parts like they did for the pit bikes.
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 9:14am
The EFI thing; I don't know if you can put that genie back in the bottle.

It'd be like telling Ford to go back to carbeauraters... I don't see it happening. They would cut costs other ways (for a scaled-down model), but technology keeps marching forward.
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 9:15am
88sdad wrote:
Are you saying I should go try a burger at the new Five Guys that just opened?
(ahem) YES, and get a SMALL fry, for the LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smile

you'll see!
newmann
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4/2/2012 9:16am
88sdad wrote:
Are you saying I should go try a burger at the new Five Guys that just opened?
(ahem) YES, and get a SMALL fry, for the LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smile

you'll see!
It's all good as long as you get a Diet Coke...lol
CR500Rider
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4/2/2012 9:19am
The fact of the matter is, 85-90 percent of riders on this board couldn't push a 93' CR250 to it's limits.
chrisbuehler
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4/2/2012 9:23am
CR500Rider wrote:
The fact of the matter is, 85-90 percent of riders on this board couldn't push a 93' CR250 to it's limits.
Bingo
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 9:27am
CR500Rider wrote:
The fact of the matter is, 85-90 percent of riders on this board couldn't push a 93' CR250 to it's limits.
I can't push my 250F near it's limits, but I love riding it. Lots of people who own fast cars can't take them near the limit either. Street bikes? don't get me started!

Is that it? We should only own stuff we can take to the limit? I'd say most street bike riders would be stuck on mopeds, and many car drivers should be in an underpowered smart car.

Also you'd have to tame the power on my 250F down to an XR100, and then, MAYBE I could ride it near its limit.
Bob454
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4/2/2012 9:29am
newmann wrote:
I am still of the opinion that a KTM non linkage chassis (think 2011 KTM150) with a 200cc mid level performing air cooled non powervalved engine...
I am still of the opinion that a KTM non linkage chassis (think 2011 KTM150) with a 200cc mid level performing air cooled non powervalved engine and not necessarily top of the line components, brakes or suspension that retailed for $3999.00 would be a big hit and could be just the ticket to bring some people into or back to the sport. The aftermarket companies could provide the hop up parts like they did for the pit bikes.
HAHAHAHAHA have another one bro
burn1986
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4/2/2012 9:30am
I have to agree with 500guy on this one. While the Fs are awesome bikes, they are pricing everyone out of racing. how many people have $8k to plop down on a bike?
Suns_PSD
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4/2/2012 9:33am
A 5 year old used modern MX bike would be of a higher performance than some antiquated play bike and would cost much less.

This is a stupid idea. Bikes really aren't that expensive. I have friends that buy barely used 4 strokes for $2.5-3K and used 2 strokes for $1.5K. What's the problem.

Hell, driving to the track, buying tires and fuel for the truck, paying entry fees, buying gear, medical bills, etc... all costs far more than the bike itself costs.

The manufacturers will not build something like this, because it wouldn't sell worth a darn.
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 9:33am
Hey I was just thinking; can't you get a WR for about $1000 less than the YZF? So really there is a less expensive option if you don't want the latest and greatest suspension... it's still pretty darned expensive though, but what isn't?
ridge
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4/2/2012 9:58am
I'm faster on a 450 but I'm not strong enough to regain control when things start going bad.

My favorite bike right now is my 1997 RMX250. It's inexpensive to purchase and maintain, although I did have to put some real mx forks on it. I'm having more fun on the trails than the tracks these days.

Maybe I'm not BRO enough for the tracks...I've lost my BROjo.
reded
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4/2/2012 10:01am
ridge wrote:
I'm faster on a 450 but I'm not strong enough to regain control when things start going bad. My favorite bike right now is my 1997...
I'm faster on a 450 but I'm not strong enough to regain control when things start going bad.

My favorite bike right now is my 1997 RMX250. It's inexpensive to purchase and maintain, although I did have to put some real mx forks on it. I'm having more fun on the trails than the tracks these days.

Maybe I'm not BRO enough for the tracks...I've lost my BROjo.
We all lose it at some point and when it's not necessary to have the latest and greatest anymore, we start look for a way to make the sport more affordable.
ga_pike
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Valdosta, GA US
4/2/2012 10:16am
Back when I was still racing... it was nothing to have 3 or 4 bikes (or more) if you were top level serious. I remember we had 2 125s and 2 250s (stock and mod)... Not to mention you always got fresh bikes before you went to Loretta's and the Mini-O's, at least for the stock class. I was very blessed to have been able to live that life but honestly, there no way we could have done that level at the costs of bikes today in the 250 and 450 four strokes. Think about adding the costs for full top end rebuilds every couple of weeks and other various parts and maintenance... just unreal what the costs could be today.
peelout
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4/2/2012 10:18am
TX24 wrote:
I've thought about that before. Most MX people want the latest and greatest. One would think there would be more of a market between say a...
I've thought about that before. Most MX people want the latest and greatest. One would think there would be more of a market between say a TTR 225 and a YZ250F.
we want the latest and greatest because the manufacturers have told us that we do.

we need progression to a point, but these bikes are turning into Formula 1 machines... it's unrealistic.

it has gotten out of control and will take something major to change it from continuing down this path.

it's a rich mans sport, even at the local level unless you're willing to just go out and get smoked you have to have the new machines. and that is at every classification.

it's fucking sad.
Hando
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4/2/2012 10:20am
what people fail to realize is that during the heyday of the 90s (cant believe im even saying this Sad ) is that jobs were plentiful and inflation wasnt going through the roof.

if good paying jobs came back to America dropping 8K on a bike wouldnt be a big deal..just like dropping 5K on a new kx250 in 1999 wasnt a big deal
mxb2
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4/2/2012 10:20am
I thought this site was PC?, Tard?
StevieTimes
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4/2/2012 10:39am
mxb2 wrote:
I thought this site was PC?, Tard?
dude I bristle every time I see that on this site.

My nephew has downs syndrome, and experiencing him growing up, even as an uncle, has made me more aware that those terms (Vitard, tards, retards) are offensive.

If it was just you, him, and my brother, alone in a room, talking, would you say that most of the people posting on Vital are "retards"?

If you would, personally I think that's really sucky. If you wouldn't, then why is it cool to say behind someone's back?

I'm not PC guy, seriously... I'm not trying to call anyone out (it's not just the OP that says that stuff on this site, and I'm not going to name names, you know who you are); but maybe we could use something else. There are a lot of word options available, maybe use some creativity and come up with some new options.
BobbyM
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4/2/2012 11:12am
CR500Rider wrote:
The fact of the matter is, 85-90 percent of riders on this board couldn't push a 93' CR250 to it's limits.
lol...more like a 74 elsinore.

i've seen coupe ride those things today and be faster than yer average c rider on a 2012 honda. and i know there a re very few here that can ride as well as coupe.
mxb2
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4/2/2012 11:30am
mxb2 wrote:
I thought this site was PC?, Tard?
dude I bristle every time I see that on this site. My nephew has downs syndrome, and experiencing him growing up, even as an uncle, has...
dude I bristle every time I see that on this site.

My nephew has downs syndrome, and experiencing him growing up, even as an uncle, has made me more aware that those terms (Vitard, tards, retards) are offensive.

If it was just you, him, and my brother, alone in a room, talking, would you say that most of the people posting on Vital are "retards"?

If you would, personally I think that's really sucky. If you wouldn't, then why is it cool to say behind someone's back?

I'm not PC guy, seriously... I'm not trying to call anyone out (it's not just the OP that says that stuff on this site, and I'm not going to name names, you know who you are); but maybe we could use something else. There are a lot of word options available, maybe use some creativity and come up with some new options.
x2
BAMX
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4/2/2012 11:33am
If your core users can't afford to participate then you are going to die out. Right now, many of the core users can't afford to participate. Fortunately, some in the industry realize this. Unfortunately, others still have their head in the sand. 4 strokes, EFI etc are all great but I for one one don't enjoy riding or racing more because of them.
4/2/2012 11:50am
BAMX wrote:
If your core users can't afford to participate then you are going to die out. Right now, many of the core users can't afford to participate...
If your core users can't afford to participate then you are going to die out. Right now, many of the core users can't afford to participate. Fortunately, some in the industry realize this. Unfortunately, others still have their head in the sand. 4 strokes, EFI etc are all great but I for one one don't enjoy riding or racing more because of them.
I'm somewhat on the fence. It's nice to pull a stock late model 450 out and it feel as well as it does... On the other hand I bought a 2005 YZ125 last year for $1000 bucks and my dick was so hard while riding it that I had to pull over after a few laps. Well that and how tired I was from being hungover... Two Strokes Rock.

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