Marvin gained advantage off track

731chopper
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2/3/2019 6:07pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2019 6:08pm
I rewatched it. Musquin was about a foot in front of AP when he went off the track and he came back onto the track about dead even with AP 3 jumps down.

The thing is, Musquin went off the track to correct his mistake of cross rutting rather than slowing down even further and continuing on the track. The advantage he gained was simply by going off the track rather than facing the consequences of the mistake he made on the race track. This is something that happens quite a bit and I think it needs to be addressed in the rules and/or enforced more.

Think about it this way, could Rider A go off the track along side a whoop section behind Rider B and in front of Rider C as long as he doesn't pass Rider B when he rejoins the track at the end of the section?
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B Gotti
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2/3/2019 8:17pm
Better watch what you say about Marv, Ole Frankie will try to fight you.
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2/3/2019 9:38pm
It should be worded " marv wasn't DISADVANTAGED by his mistake" - when you say advantage I think it may confuse some.

If you make a mistake while bar to bar with someone, what are the odds you'll still be bar to bar post mistake?
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The Shop

mxlegend99
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2/3/2019 10:13pm
What about a time penalty for every missed obstacle? Its impossible to create a general rule that would fairly cover all scenarios. But skipping obstacles should be punished somehow.

Just a quick idea. Something like 1 second for every whoop missed, 2 seconds for every jump missed. Give each obstacle a time value. So if you skipped a whoop section with 10 whoops you cop a 10 second penalty. Skip a triple you cop a 6 second penalty. Encourage riders to take a bit more time to re-enter where they left or close to it atleast.

Could have exclusions so if you're pushed off the track the penalty doesn't apply. Or it doesn't apply for the next obstacle or something. Basically just stop riders from gaining advantage from a mistake.
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KDXGarage
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2/3/2019 10:27pm
He built momentum off the track to zip right up alongside him.
VRR7
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2/3/2019 10:38pm
731chopper wrote:
I rewatched it. Musquin was about a foot in front of AP when he went off the track and he came back onto the track about...
I rewatched it. Musquin was about a foot in front of AP when he went off the track and he came back onto the track about dead even with AP 3 jumps down.

The thing is, Musquin went off the track to correct his mistake of cross rutting rather than slowing down even further and continuing on the track. The advantage he gained was simply by going off the track rather than facing the consequences of the mistake he made on the race track. This is something that happens quite a bit and I think it needs to be addressed in the rules and/or enforced more.

Think about it this way, could Rider A go off the track along side a whoop section behind Rider B and in front of Rider C as long as he doesn't pass Rider B when he rejoins the track at the end of the section?
Agree ! He did not gain a place however it did looked like MM purposely chose that line - He saw the rut saw the line ( off track ) and went for it. He chose not to stay on the track as that would have cost him time.
gym_jackets
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2/3/2019 11:13pm
A very similar incident happened in Formula 1 over ten years ago. Driver A was ahead of Driver B. Entering a corner, driver B makes a passing attempt, but gets pinched on corner exit. Instead of slowing down to let A ahead, B cuts the next corner and rejoins about next to A. Driver B then lets Driver A pass him, but immediately makes a passing attempt at the next corner, which he successfully pulls off. After the race was over, Driver B was given a time penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. It happens at the beginning of this video, with the onboard camera being for Driver B (Hamilton) and the car in front of him being Driver A (Raikkonen)
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gym_jackets
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2/3/2019 11:16pm
A very similar incident happened in Formula 1 over ten years ago. Driver A was ahead of Driver B. Entering a corner, driver B makes a...
A very similar incident happened in Formula 1 over ten years ago. Driver A was ahead of Driver B. Entering a corner, driver B makes a passing attempt, but gets pinched on corner exit. Instead of slowing down to let A ahead, B cuts the next corner and rejoins about next to A. Driver B then lets Driver A pass him, but immediately makes a passing attempt at the next corner, which he successfully pulls off. After the race was over, Driver B was given a time penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. It happens at the beginning of this video, with the onboard camera being for Driver B (Hamilton) and the car in front of him being Driver A (Raikkonen)
That being said, Marvin certainly would not have been able to pass AP where he did, had he not gone off track. Therefore he left the track and gained an advantage, and considering Anderson got penalized in Minneapolis for just riding down the side of a rhythm lane and gaining NO advantage, Marv should probably receive a penalty of some kind here.
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245MX
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2/4/2019 6:17am
If theres no limit to the amount of times you leave the track it surprises me riders don't do it more often.

Say in San Diego rider A is nailing a triple every lap but rider B doesn't feel as confident about it, whats to stop rider B going off track and coming back on behind rider A after the triple.

Rider B "suposedly" hasn't gained an advantage because he hasn't passed rider A, but he's just arrived at the next corner as if he had done the triple.

You could just cut massive sections of track and get back on behind the fast guy.

Its an advantage because you don't have the risk of making a mistake which you would have riding the track.
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tingo
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2/4/2019 6:53am
A very similar incident happened in Formula 1 over ten years ago. Driver A was ahead of Driver B. Entering a corner, driver B makes a...
A very similar incident happened in Formula 1 over ten years ago. Driver A was ahead of Driver B. Entering a corner, driver B makes a passing attempt, but gets pinched on corner exit. Instead of slowing down to let A ahead, B cuts the next corner and rejoins about next to A. Driver B then lets Driver A pass him, but immediately makes a passing attempt at the next corner, which he successfully pulls off. After the race was over, Driver B was given a time penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. It happens at the beginning of this video, with the onboard camera being for Driver B (Hamilton) and the car in front of him being Driver A (Raikkonen)
Damn those cars sounded so much better. 19,000 RPM V8s. And the V10s before that. Drool. Make F1 great again.
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gym_jackets
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2/4/2019 7:50pm
245MX wrote:
If theres no limit to the amount of times you leave the track it surprises me riders don't do it more often. Say in San Diego...
If theres no limit to the amount of times you leave the track it surprises me riders don't do it more often.

Say in San Diego rider A is nailing a triple every lap but rider B doesn't feel as confident about it, whats to stop rider B going off track and coming back on behind rider A after the triple.

Rider B "suposedly" hasn't gained an advantage because he hasn't passed rider A, but he's just arrived at the next corner as if he had done the triple.

You could just cut massive sections of track and get back on behind the fast guy.

Its an advantage because you don't have the risk of making a mistake which you would have riding the track.
4.15.i.2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

Probably will result in a penalty if u keep cutting the track.
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TDeath21
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2/5/2019 8:15am
245MX wrote:
If theres no limit to the amount of times you leave the track it surprises me riders don't do it more often. Say in San Diego...
If theres no limit to the amount of times you leave the track it surprises me riders don't do it more often.

Say in San Diego rider A is nailing a triple every lap but rider B doesn't feel as confident about it, whats to stop rider B going off track and coming back on behind rider A after the triple.

Rider B "suposedly" hasn't gained an advantage because he hasn't passed rider A, but he's just arrived at the next corner as if he had done the triple.

You could just cut massive sections of track and get back on behind the fast guy.

Its an advantage because you don't have the risk of making a mistake which you would have riding the track.
[b]4.15.i.2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained...
4.15.i.2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the racecourse, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

Probably will result in a penalty if u keep cutting the track.
If you do it every lap then yeah. But if you just “make a mistake” a few times there then they won’t penalize you.

It’s a complete joke honestly. There’s no punishment for mistakes anymore because rider just point that front tire off course and rejoin where they were prior to the mistake. Where as if they had stayed on the track, they’d completely lose momentum and several seconds in the upcoming section. How this isn’t considered “gaining an advantage”, I’m not sure.

But in all honesty, after the Jeremy Martín Millville incident, I know it’ll take something massive for there to be a penalty. And even then it’s questionable.
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nrosso391
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2/5/2019 8:42am
TDeath21 wrote:
If you do it every lap then yeah. But if you just “make a mistake” a few times there then they won’t penalize you. It’s a...
If you do it every lap then yeah. But if you just “make a mistake” a few times there then they won’t penalize you.

It’s a complete joke honestly. There’s no punishment for mistakes anymore because rider just point that front tire off course and rejoin where they were prior to the mistake. Where as if they had stayed on the track, they’d completely lose momentum and several seconds in the upcoming section. How this isn’t considered “gaining an advantage”, I’m not sure.

But in all honesty, after the Jeremy Martín Millville incident, I know it’ll take something massive for there to be a penalty. And even then it’s questionable.
I think he definitely gained an advantage. Which in its easiest description of what that is: Gaining ground, and/or time on surrounding competitors. The Martin incident would've had repercussions if he didn't tip over only a handful of corners after that. It was karma doing its thing.
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Tarz483
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2/5/2019 10:00am
It Happens all the time but that is because of the way the rule is written and they all see everyone else do it , Monkey see monkey do!
I think the shoud say to go back on the track exactly where you went off, even if it means coming to a full stop and doing a uturn. Yeah they will lose time and positions
As they should if they go off the track!
And would there be times they couldn't go back on where they went off? Sure in that case go back on as close as possible.
But as long as the rule is written the way it is , people are going to take advantage of it period.
Im not picking on Marvin he simply did what is the norm
Imo.

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