Make Motocross Great Again! Is it time to fire the AMA?

tcallahan707
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5/30/2017 9:30am
The reason entries are going down is the discrepancy between pro racing and amateur racing in regards to the displacement rule. If you are a local pro, why would you ever buy a 250f (unless you are going to truly contest the nationals)? A 250t is an advantage at the amateur level so when buying a bike, you have a choice between saving money and having an advantage, or buying a 250f just to be able to ride your local national. I think more and more guys are choosing the more logical route here, which results in less local guys signing up.
klaüs
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5/30/2017 10:07am Edited Date/Time 5/30/2017 10:09am
I never understood the reasoning for the bike year cutoff? Why cant a person complete with an older bike?
Probably something to do with new bike sales. If people know that a 14 year old yz250(example) can do everything the '17 can do, why spend the money when an old cheap used bike + rebuild costs are half as much $$$.
seth505
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5/30/2017 10:30am
newmann wrote:
I hear you, but if it continues a downward trend it isn't going to be a good thing. The 250 class has just gotten stupid expensive...
I hear you, but if it continues a downward trend it isn't going to be a good thing. The 250 class has just gotten stupid expensive. If it is going to continue as a 4 stroke series maybe they should call it what it is, the Premier class. Let the 450's play second fiddle to the big bucks class.
I agree it's important to look at trending. Think of it like a company who is sourcing parts from 5 vendors, all of a sudden 4 go out of business, they still have a vendor but no plan B. That's scary and enough info to know a new game plan is needed.
Johnny Depp
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5/30/2017 10:40am
Thanks for your feedback Deman684! I'm not sure anyone else noticed it? It directly answers the question.

Just like Lance Armstrong said, "It's not all about the bike".

Race Organizations, Tracks, practice access to the tracks, and costs all come into play.




The Shop

JW381
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5/30/2017 10:44am
I also feel like racing in general is becoming less popular. MX racing, that is. Could be the danger factor, I'm not sure.
JW381
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5/30/2017 10:45am
Thanks for your feedback Deman684! I'm not sure anyone else noticed it? It directly answers the question. Just like Lance Armstrong said, "It's not all about...
Thanks for your feedback Deman684! I'm not sure anyone else noticed it? It directly answers the question.

Just like Lance Armstrong said, "It's not all about the bike".

Race Organizations, Tracks, practice access to the tracks, and costs all come into play.




Yup, great input. That pretty much sums it up, I'd imagine.
KennyT
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5/30/2017 11:00am
JW381 wrote:
I also feel like racing in general is becoming less popular. MX racing, that is. Could be the danger factor, I'm not sure.
When I grew up racing you felt there was no chance you would lose your life on the track. That has changed is a reason I will not be getting my grandkids into anything more than recreational riding. It's one thing to break a limb but to lose a child would be devastating. Like one of the privateers wrote earlier on this topic...it's not worth him risking his life with the brutal tracks they r presented with
5/30/2017 11:24am
I never understood the reasoning for the bike year cutoff? Why cant a person complete with an older bike?
Good question. I'm sure it's to help the manufacturers. God forbid someone ends up running a seven year old bike and beating newer bikes.
lostboy819
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5/30/2017 11:58am
JW381 wrote:
I also feel like racing in general is becoming less popular. MX racing, that is. Could be the danger factor, I'm not sure.
When I started racing a 125 was long, low to the ground,slow and had 20 hp and a big jump would make you jump far and not high. It was easy for a new rider to get the hang of it. Now you get a 450 mixed with jumps that shoot you up and high speed. If you compare it to drag racing its like going drag racing for the first time in a top fuel dragster.
Moto810
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5/30/2017 11:58am
Thanks for your feedback Deman684! I'm not sure anyone else noticed it? It directly answers the question. Just like Lance Armstrong said, "It's not all about...
Thanks for your feedback Deman684! I'm not sure anyone else noticed it? It directly answers the question.

Just like Lance Armstrong said, "It's not all about the bike".

Race Organizations, Tracks, practice access to the tracks, and costs all come into play.




JW381 wrote:
Yup, great input. That pretty much sums it up, I'd imagine.
Yup that about sums it up.
nrosso391
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5/30/2017 12:15pm
You want more racer entries? Well, stop giving the 4-strokes such an advantage in these classes first off. 2nd, tell manufacturers to stop raising the prices so high on bikes. If anything the cost to manufacture has gone down on the majority of parts because of electronics and mass producing capabilities. 3rd GIVE RACERS A BIGGER PURSE FOR RISKING THEIR LIVES TO COMPETE.
Jaze
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5/30/2017 12:45pm
AMA need just allow 2 vs 4 strokes same cc at every class and also allow electric bikes to race.
Then there is everything that we all need.
That leads to more people to attendance races and more racers and sponsors.
Everybody can see that motocross is fading these days and we need more casual racers.
That means more selling to local bike shops and more selling to oem parts etc.
Ok so that means more sponsors to pro racers. Cant be that hard?
If exemple Honda says no. They arent leaving anywhere or if they. They are gonna die in offroad market, thats it.

DC make it happen! We all are waiting something good and big changes happening.

Over and out. Hope you all understand what i just write up.
5/30/2017 1:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2017 1:06pm
The premise of this thread seems to be that the rules and technology and associated costs squeeze out the local little guy -- basically amateurs -- and most of the rest is group think. Name another professional sport that works this way?
nrosso391
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5/30/2017 1:06pm
nrosso391 wrote:
You want more racer entries? Well, stop giving the 4-strokes such an advantage in these classes first off. 2nd, tell manufacturers to stop raising the prices...
You want more racer entries? Well, stop giving the 4-strokes such an advantage in these classes first off. 2nd, tell manufacturers to stop raising the prices so high on bikes. If anything the cost to manufacture has gone down on the majority of parts because of electronics and mass producing capabilities. 3rd GIVE RACERS A BIGGER PURSE FOR RISKING THEIR LIVES TO COMPETE.
3.5 There's absolutely no reason that this sport can't be as big as NASCAR. We need more outside sponsors for more support and money in this sport to grow it. MARKETING could be improved a lot. I didn't see 1 commercial for SX this year for the first Minneapolis SX in 4 years and first one in our new stadium. NOT 1 commercial. Didn't take long once we got there to see the upper stands half empty. They don't pump the sport up like they used to.
GreaseMeter
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5/30/2017 1:19pm
JW381 wrote:
I also feel like racing in general is becoming less popular. MX racing, that is. Could be the danger factor, I'm not sure.
sorry bro. You know how many entries Washougal had for their race weekend this past weekend? Racing isn't less popular.
lostboy819
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5/30/2017 1:20pm
On a lighter note, the local race at Sweney MX here in Colorado this weekend had a huge turnout and full gates in most classes. I think lots of racers pick and choose which races they go to so tracks like Sweneys and Lakewood will get great turnout and the tracks that just want your money and don't go the extra mile will have a much smaller group of riders.
5/30/2017 1:37pm
lostboy819 wrote:
On a lighter note, the local race at Sweney MX here in Colorado this weekend had a huge turnout and full gates in most classes. I...
On a lighter note, the local race at Sweney MX here in Colorado this weekend had a huge turnout and full gates in most classes. I think lots of racers pick and choose which races they go to so tracks like Sweneys and Lakewood will get great turnout and the tracks that just want your money and don't go the extra mile will have a much smaller group of riders.
100% agree, the Sweney family puts a lot of hard work into their facility and adverstises the shit out of all their races and practice days! And one thing I love about going to SCP is that they are very welcoming and it has a real family type atmosphere. Everyone is there for 1 thing and that is the love of racing dirt bikes.
hillbilly
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5/30/2017 1:43pm
i recommend getting a tall cold glass of vitamin A on saturdays and watch it play out.

or,

bitch on a forum, whatever gets ya off,

tall cold glass fer me.
bf884
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5/30/2017 2:00pm
Do away with the CC and go off of horse power
early
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5/30/2017 2:08pm
The premise of this thread seems to be that the rules and technology and associated costs squeeze out the local little guy -- basically amateurs --...
The premise of this thread seems to be that the rules and technology and associated costs squeeze out the local little guy -- basically amateurs -- and most of the rest is group think. Name another professional sport that works this way?
I fear your post will be lost in the crowd.
Pirate421
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5/30/2017 2:12pm
It is too bad bikes have gotten so expensive. not sure how all the $$ works out for the oems but if they could sell 50,000 bikes at $5k is way better for the sport than 25,000 bikes at $10k (not saying this is feasible, just easy round #s to work with) Twice the amount of bikes out there means twice the amount of parts sales both oem and aftermarket. More jobs in the industry, more people riding, more money for tracks, more bikes coming through dealer service depts. then that money makes it back into pro racing, if more people are riding then inevitably more people would be interested in SX and MX on tv. Unfortunately the way the sport is going we won't have to worry about 2t vs 4t as there won't be anywhere to ride. If tracks don't get the riders, the just close. People won't pay $10k to drive 2-3 hrs to ride once or twice a month. I'd love to buy a new bike every year and do my part but even a new two stroke at close to $8k, most people can't swing it anymore.
kkawboy14
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5/30/2017 2:24pm
You guys do realize that the American Government is the one who is doing away with 2 strokes right?
Micahdogg
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5/30/2017 2:36pm
What I'm most torn about is the 450. Its clearly too much bike for indoor stuff. On one hand, its cool because its so fast, but on the other hand, what is it doing for the sport? I liked the sport better when you had to be smooth and on point and you had to nail your lines lap after lap. The rider who did this, got rewarded. The sport favored skill. Now you can just close your eyes and pin it and clear everything.
5/30/2017 2:38pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
You guys do realize that the American Government is the one who is doing away with 2 strokes right?
That makes perfect sense why there are so many in off road racing and outboard boat motors. Who knew?
JW381
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5/30/2017 2:40pm
JW381 wrote:
I also feel like racing in general is becoming less popular. MX racing, that is. Could be the danger factor, I'm not sure.
sorry bro. You know how many entries Washougal had for their race weekend this past weekend? Racing isn't less popular.
You're such a troll.
Micahdogg
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5/30/2017 2:40pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
You guys do realize that the American Government is the one who is doing away with 2 strokes right?
If that were true, the current crop of 4 strokes would be meeting EPA emission standards. But that still doesn't apply to racing, and 2 strokes are still all over the place.
Johnny Depp
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5/30/2017 2:41pm
The premise of this thread seems to be that the rules and technology and associated costs squeeze out the local little guy -- basically amateurs --...
The premise of this thread seems to be that the rules and technology and associated costs squeeze out the local little guy -- basically amateurs -- and most of the rest is group think. Name another professional sport that works this way?
early wrote:
I fear your post will be lost in the crowd.
No doubt there is a disconnect between Pro and Amateur and whether one is pulling the rope or the other is pushing it.

When it comes down to it the rider is 95% of the equation for success. This is well established over decades of results and lap times. We just had the 30th anniversary of Johnny O'mara beating the World's best on a 125cc at the Motocross Des Nations.

http://www.mxgp.com/news/maggiora-welcomes-johnny-omara


When we all go to our local tracks, we race against all types and sizes and ages of bikes and riders and it doesn't make one damn difference.

Katoomey
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5/30/2017 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2017 2:50pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Well...to be fair...I rebuild my 2 stroke 250 about every 25 hours. Difference?....my top end kit cost $140.00. What's a hotrod / competitive 250F rebuild cost...
Well...to be fair...I rebuild my 2 stroke 250 about every 25 hours. Difference?....my top end kit cost $140.00.

What's a hotrod / competitive 250F rebuild cost?

I agree...the rules need to freaking change! Canada made it work...so can the Nationals here and MX2 across the pond.

It honestly boils down to "Greed". The OEM's don't want guys being able to put a new top end in a bike for under $200.00. They want you to spend $1500.00 minimum.

People have been getting cornholed on this for over a decade. Sooner or later...you just price out all your competition. I'd love to have a 250F....but Gawd damn...I can't afford the proper upkeep.
I want to preface my post by saying, yes, I do believe the cost of moto and moto equipment is hurting the sport.
And yeah, the cost of 4-stroke performance and maintenance is very high comparatively, but...

manufacturers would rather not sell parts. its a money maker in the automotive industry (and required legally), but I do know that power-sports manufacturer's, especially companies in this country, would rather not have to deal with replacement parts. It's expensive and logistically complicated. Accessories is another subject.

it's quite simple. 4 strokes we're new...and that made them desirable...so they started making them...they we're successful in competition...and that made them more desirable...the demand outweighed smokers...the manufacturers stopped making 2 strokes in an effort to cut costs...

it isn't a conspiracy. its called supply and demand, the basics of any trade system.

if anyone is to blame, it absolutely has to be the AMA for allowing them to compete. and even that is a stretch....because I think it was a pretty innocent decision to allow them. technological advancement is always a consideration for motorsports organizing bodies. hindsight is always 20/20.

...and speculating (because thats all it is) that the factories have actively tried to keep 2-strokes out is not because the parts are cheaper...thats just nonsense, it's because they DONT SELL THEM!!!!!!!!! At the time that 4-strokes came too, the manufacturers had much, much large budgets, and retooling and investing in the tech was feasible. In today's economy, going back to two strokes is just too much of a burden. Now, they could be forced into it I suppose, but that will not happen until smokers are the premium class again. Thats up to the AMA, consumers, track owners, organizers, and promoters. The factories will (mostly) sell us anything we want to buy...especially if they have to.

...and one more point, emissions might have been a future consideration at the beginning of the 4-stroke revolution, but it certainly wasn't a motivating factor. if it had been, off-road bikes would have been the focus.
Micahdogg
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5/30/2017 2:47pm
Hey now, I can't ride for squat, don't pick on me. But you can't deny a 450 can practically start at the face of a triple and clear it. There was a time when that wasn't possible. And I would argue that replacing a large portion of rider skill with an equally large portion of testosterone wasn't in the best interest of the sport.
seth505
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5/30/2017 2:49pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
You guys do realize that the American Government is the one who is doing away with 2 strokes right?

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