MXoN - Raceday Discussion

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

St Ann More wrote:

Cool to see. Credit: Racer X[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/09/30/376808/s1200_FB_IMG_1569864528097.jpg[/img]

Cool to see. Credit: Racer X

LewisPhillips wrote:

I just posted my post-race podcasts from the race, so figured some of you would like to listen! Herlings, Vlaanderen, Coldenhoff, Cooper, Osborne, DeCoster, Prado, Sterry...

I just posted my post-race podcasts from the race, so figured some of you would like to listen! Herlings, Vlaanderen, Coldenhoff, Cooper, Osborne, DeCoster, Prado, Sterry, Watson, Seewer and Jonass are all in here.

There's some really interesting stuff from a lot of the guys, especially DeCoster.

https://mxvice.com/118649/post-race-pods-assen-mxon

Motocross83 wrote:

Great interviews and a great interviewer! Nicely done.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

For anyone wondering, Paulin's DNF was apparently because he ran out of gas. Such a bummer.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

SydAus wrote:

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto...

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto 1 [didnt even fall off] and both engines blowing for Ferris and Duffy with 2 laps to go...who knows what our end result would have been

-MAVERICK- wrote:

For anyone wondering, Paulin's DNF was apparently because he ran out of gas. Such a bummer.

Press516 wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one to swallow...

Dimblewambie wrote:

I just can’t subscribe to the thinking that the MXGP riders are way more talented and better riders across the board. In 2015 and 2016 the...

I just can’t subscribe to the thinking that the MXGP riders are way more talented and better riders across the board. In 2015 and 2016 the US had a real shot at winning, losing with a score of 16 in France. Not much has changed as far as schedules go for the US riders, nor the GP guys for that matter so I don’t believe there really is a giant gap in skills/talent/ability what have you. I think the last 3 years it comes down to the US teams not performing to their full potential due to injuries, poor prep and bad luck.

If there was a full 12/17/19 race series of des nations events, I think you would see pretty steady results with USA, France, Nederlands, Belgium, GB and Italy battling for podium positions.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

Question wrote:

About luck, it is worse than that i feel, for example just on top of my head, 2014 Martin's broken foot, 2017 Covington's knee, 2018 Plessinger...

About luck, it is worse than that i feel, for example just on top of my head, 2014 Martin's broken foot, 2017 Covington's knee, 2018 Plessinger crashed and Tomac DNFed in quali which kill their grid position for sunday which was key in a mudder, etc. I am not saying it would have translated in wins, but i have no doubt that the recent editions do not reflect the real level of the US teams.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

For anyone wondering, Paulin's DNF was apparently because he ran out of gas. Such a bummer.

Press516 wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one to swallow...

Ranman68 wrote:

OMG that sucks. Bad luck strikes every team at some point.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

Press516 wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one to swallow...

Ranman68 wrote:

OMG that sucks. Bad luck strikes every team at some point.

Press516 wrote:

That was certainly Paulin's bad luck, but not the team's... That was a poor performance. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/09/30/376908/s1200_gas_goes_here.jpg[/img]

That was certainly Paulin's bad luck, but not the team's... That was a poor performance.

Motocross83 wrote:

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big...

In regards to your 2nd point - I think it was more to do with having the best team in and of itself rather than big name powerhouse riders, though of course that undoubtedly helped also.

The top GP riders have in reality been broadly equal to the top AMA riders since the early 00s. Even throughout the 2nd American MXDN winning streak from 05 - 11 the GP riders would almost always perform very well individually, only to each fail critically as a team. This is important to understand because I think many of the U.S fans/media tend to look at the dip in American success as a post Lommel problem i.e something that's inexplicable and much more recent. That's only partly true. The top GP guys have been right there in terms of speed for decades now but anything they achieved individually was usually pushed aside in light of the team result - which to be fair is understandable. It is a team event after all.

What's happened in recent yrs is really 3 things imo: Firstly the AMA based riders are now primarily concerned with SX even more than previously, and this has also been further exacerbated by a uniform approach to their MX track preparations and variety. It doesn't hurt every rider everywhere. But it's certainly been a massive factor on multiple occasions now.

The other thing that's happened in recent yrs is that some countries have finally, if only for a short period, been able to field a good 3 man team. It won't last because ultimately none of these countries are big enough to maintain one. It's been France of course for the last few yrs and now the Dutch look to be having their moment.

Lastly, a bit of lady luck. The U.S was desperately unlucky in 2016 especially and very unlucky this weekend also.

SydAus wrote:

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto...

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto 1 [didnt even fall off] and both engines blowing for Ferris and Duffy with 2 laps to go...who knows what our end result would have been

Ranman68 wrote:

Dude that is so true. You poor Aussies suffered from awful luck, but the bad luck we had is overshadowing it in discussions. .I mentioned Australia...

Dude that is so true. You poor Aussies suffered from awful luck, but the bad luck we had is overshadowing it in discussions.
.I mentioned Australia in one of my comments after Saturday that I was shocked at how strong the Australian team was. You guys were right in the thick of it and could've contended for a podium had things gone differently or had the track conditions been good on Sunday.
Rest assured that this yank noticed how fast the Aussies were. I'm sure many others noticed too.

aeffertz wrote:

Was just curious to check the forum engagement between a few events. [url=https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Anaheim-1-SX-Night-Show-Bench-Racing,1351921?exclusive_forum_user=false&page=1]2019 A1 Bench Racing Thread[/url] - 21 Pages [url=https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Hangtown-MX-Main-Races-Bench-Racing,1359875]2019 Hangtown Bench Racing Thread[/url] -...

Was just curious to check the forum engagement between a few events.

2019 A1 Bench Racing Thread - 21 Pages

2019 Hangtown Bench Racing Thread - 13 Pages

2019 MXoN Practice/Qualifying Discussion - 25 pages

2018 MXoN Race Discussion - 34 pages

I think it's safe to say this race is still one of the biggest events in motocross.

St Ann More wrote:

Cool to see. Credit: Racer X[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/09/30/376808/s1200_FB_IMG_1569864528097.jpg[/img]

Cool to see. Credit: Racer X

YamahaJT1 wrote:

Congratulations to Netherlands, Belgium, and GB! Also, thanks to those who participated in this discussion during the racing. The most civil behavior I have seen in...

Congratulations to Netherlands, Belgium, and GB!

Also, thanks to those who participated in this discussion during the racing. The most civil behavior I have seen in years here...

OK, NEXT YEAR.... We gonna chew y'all up an' spit you out! U.S.A! I mean that in the most polite way.

roninho wrote:

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium. Having...

First of all, the US was a podium contender this weekend, i think 1 top 15 by Cooper would have gotten them on the podium.

Having said that, they havnt won in 8 years. You guys used to win 8 years in a row. The reason is you used to have the best rider in the world on your team and you simply are lacking them this decade.

I love the effort of these guys, but this team has no Carmichael, Johnson, McCrath, Stewart, Stanton, Villo, Dungey etc.

Ranman68 wrote:

I agree with all of that to a degree, but we still had Dungey when mxon was in Lommel 2012 and in latvia 2014. Dungey didn't...

I agree with all of that to a degree, but we still had Dungey when mxon was in Lommel 2012 and in latvia 2014. Dungey didn't do anything great in either of those. On loose, soft surfaces, Euros just perform better. They ride it a lot more. That's just how it is. Additionally, Europe has had a rise in elite talent in recent years with guys like Herlings and Prado that push the other euros to higher levels.
The elite talent pool has evened out, and in recent mxon events the weather/surface has just not been good for Americans. Not that it was intentional. Mother nature just made it that way. There was a time when we had the super talents that could overcome it, but now Europe has them too. On a dry track it can go either way I believe, but if it rains.....no. We just aren't as good when it gets mushy. That's just the way it is.

shaffstall721 wrote:

I agree with this, if Ernee France is dry, I would put money on team USA. If it rains, I wouldn’t bet on them for a...

I agree with this, if Ernee France is dry, I would put money on team USA. If it rains, I wouldn’t bet on them for a podium. These guys in Europe practice in this crap all winter, while our guys are in SoCal on sx tracks. It is what it is.

Waiting a whole year for this race for it to be a kidder 3 years in a row kinda sucks.

Oh, Gajser was very impressive today!!!

Hope he comes into next season healthy.

RG1 wrote:

Does anyone know how/why France finished ahead of the USA? They finished equal on points and USA had both a better dropped score and better last...

Does anyone know how/why France finished ahead of the USA? They finished equal on points and USA had both a better dropped score and better last race score

SydAus wrote:

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto...

A little Lady Luck Australia’s way could have seen a different result for them too. Webster stuck in a sink hole while running 10th in moto 1 [didnt even fall off] and both engines blowing for Ferris and Duffy with 2 laps to go...who knows what our end result would have been

Ranman68 wrote:

Dude that is so true. You poor Aussies suffered from awful luck, but the bad luck we had is overshadowing it in discussions. .I mentioned Australia...

Dude that is so true. You poor Aussies suffered from awful luck, but the bad luck we had is overshadowing it in discussions.
.I mentioned Australia in one of my comments after Saturday that I was shocked at how strong the Australian team was. You guys were right in the thick of it and could've contended for a podium had things gone differently or had the track conditions been good on Sunday.
Rest assured that this yank noticed how fast the Aussies were. I'm sure many others noticed too.

SydAus wrote:

Yeh for a small country way down under we have depth in talent and our future is looking pretty solid. It’s been widely written that we...

Yeh for a small country way down under we have depth in talent and our future is looking pretty solid. It’s been widely written that we had injuries with Hunter, Evans and Beaton leading in to selection of our team but I truly believe our selection of Webster and Duffy didn’t weaken us at all.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

For anyone wondering, Paulin's DNF was apparently because he ran out of gas. Such a bummer.