MXdN 2018 - What with ET3, MM25, BB4, Webb, JM6, ...

I'm fine with any rider accepting the invitation or bowing out. I'm also fine with not having yet another thread about this.

How about the rest of the world not show up when it's in the USA and we will get a taste of our own medicine. They will have to cancel the event because they couldn't fill the gate. And no ET3 in '18.

MXMattii wrote:

This year we've seen a real soap about the Americans but also other teams getting riders in line for the Motocross des Nations in Matterley Bassin. Someone like Marvin Musquin didn't wanted to go because the season is already long enough, Eli Tomac said the same thing and most others didn't said it but where thinking it. Riders like Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy didn't seem to be interested, neither were there teams?!

Someone like Cooper Webb said he got to much testing to do with the new Yamaha and the list continuous with riders who aren't interested riding. So Zach Osborne, Cole Seely and Thomas Covington put there balls on the line, they will extend their season with more then a month, for ama riders and a few weeks for Covington.

But next year the Motocross Des Nations returns to the USA, and very possible Red Budd!! Are you guys OK with selecting Tomac or one of the riders who doesn't really have a great excuses then? Because the 2018 season will be just as long and grueling, 2018 will have as much gate drops then 2017 and training with pappa or with Aldon will be just as hard too. Or would you Americans be OK selecting: Osborne, Seely, Covington and possible riders like Jason Anderson (injured now), Cooper Webb (OK Testing is important), Alex Martin (Going from injury to injury made him jump off the mxdn bandwagon, Not?), Justin Barcia (never said no, when he was on it), ...

Marvin Musquin has a knee injury to take care of at the end of the season as well...so does Cooper Webb.

I'd never ask Tomac again if I were in charge of it. Musquin is getting some work done on his knee. Understandable not to postpone your recovery an extra month. Anderson and Baggett are injured and most likely will need that extra month of recovery too. Webb we haven't gotten the full story, so I'm not going to judge on him yet. Team USA can win. I think Osborne has to be the MX2 favorite, Seely is capable of putting in two top fives, and Covington is capable of giving one solid moto against the MX2 guys. So a win isn't far fetched really. If Covington struggles in his first moto of the day though, I'd say a win is out the door. And of course Team USA needs two good motos out of Osborne and Seely.

I'm happy with whoever wants to go.

I also get why people choose not to go. A few of the guys I've talked to who have gone in the past said that it ends up costing them money. There's about zero financial incentive. If they don't win, they also catch a ton of crap from fans.

How do you know Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy weren't interested?

JMart seemed pretty interested on a podcast I listened to last week.

I assume logistics played a significant role in Covingtons selection.

My opinion? No, do not ask Tomac again. If he's too busy this year, then he'll be too busy next. It will be interesting to see how many attitudes change though if it is indeed on American soil. Hoping the Red Bud rumor is true.

I'm good with sending the fastest racers that are willing to go. If they're not willing to go...move to the next in line. Those guys don't owe me anything. If the season is going to be "just as long and grueling" why won't they have just as good of an excuse next year as this year? Their excuse ISN'T about traveling....it's about the timing. Have they announced that the GP's will end earlier and they'll do the the MXDN sooner after OUR season...so our riders don't have to extend their season an extra month? We have a solid team. It's not our fastest we have to offer, but solid. For me, as a spectator, the fun is in the competition, not the winning.

jamma10 wrote:

How do you know Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy weren't interested?

JMart seemed pretty interested on a podcast I listened to last week.

I assume logistics played a significant role in Covingtons selection.

After all of the times Plessinger has hit the ground this summer I'd be surprised if he's at 100% currently. I also wonder if JMart's indecision about which bike he wants to race next year is a factor in it all. Seemed like Zach was pretty flexible with what class he would race so it's definitely surprising we didn't see one of those four fill in a spot.

jamma10 wrote:

How do you know Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy weren't interested?

JMart seemed pretty interested on a podcast I listened to last week.

I assume logistics played a significant role in Covingtons selection.

Honda didn't want to send two riders over due to costs...It get's pretty expensive to do that with next to nothing coming from YS to help defray costs...

GuyB wrote:

I'm happy with whoever wants to go.

I also get why people choose not to go. A few of the guys I've talked to who have gone in the past said that it ends up costing them money. There's about zero financial incentive. If they don't win, they also catch a ton of crap from fans.

Funding is a problem every country has. But with two American Promoters like MXSports and Feld and a big area that isn't splintered into nations like Europe, it shouldn't be harder for the US then for Belgium, who need partners like local websites to get the budget OK!

Also team US makes it very expensive because they wanna import bikes and make there crew very big, that something myself, DV12, Paul Malin talked about on Twitter after lasts years event. I saw in Italy Arnaud Tonus kick ass on a borrowed bike from Dixon with only a few parts bolted on. Same goes for those Australian riders. So @Jamma if Jeremy Martin wanted to go, but his team wasn't up to it, he could make something work with HRC in Europe. Don't think that a Martin Honda HRC MX2 bike will make him faster neither make him slower.

Same goes with almost all those riders, and if you ask DV12 then he will tell you that the American riders will be privileged by the European setup those bikes have. Because US setup bikes don't always work on European tracks.

Well.....this may sound weird , but " IF " the Mxon's happens here next year , I would think we would be a heavy favorite for sure. BUT.....I think winning over there would mean more. Winning on home soil is one thing , but to do it over there on an unfamiliar track , just seems like it would mean more.

As far as Eli goes , I've been a fan of his for quite some time , but I'm a little disappointed he turned this race down this year. Mad ( a little ) , but more disappointed then anything else.

jamma10 wrote:

How do you know Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy weren't interested?

JMart seemed pretty interested on a podcast I listened to last week.

I assume logistics played a significant role in Covingtons selection.

DonM wrote:

Honda didn't want to send two riders over due to costs...It get's pretty expensive to do that with next to nothing coming from YS to help defray costs...

I saw someone else mention this about Honda yesterday, where did you hear it?

Factory teams tend to help each other out at the MXdN and I assume Honda will be there with Gajser and possibly Bobryshev, surely the extra cost would be negligible?

Guess that goes to show that the top riders in the us have no reason to bother with the euro guys. Maybe the eu guys should step up and get stomped in AMA.

That sure is a lot of cognitive bias there, MXMattii.

Might want to get your facts straight on Muqsuin, Baggett, and Webb before you spew more misinformation.

Ha.

GuyB wrote:

I'm happy with whoever wants to go.

I also get why people choose not to go. A few of the guys I've talked to who have gone in the past said that it ends up costing them money. There's about zero financial incentive. If they don't win, they also catch a ton of crap from fans.

MXMattii wrote:

Funding is a problem every country has. But with two American Promoters like MXSports and Feld and a big area that isn't splintered into nations like Europe, it shouldn't be harder for the US then for Belgium, who need partners like local websites to get the budget OK!

Also team US makes it very expensive because they wanna import bikes and make there crew very big, that something myself, DV12, Paul Malin talked about on Twitter after lasts years event. I saw in Italy Arnaud Tonus kick ass on a borrowed bike from Dixon with only a few parts bolted on. Same goes for those Australian riders. So @Jamma if Jeremy Martin wanted to go, but his team wasn't up to it, he could make something work with HRC in Europe. Don't think that a Martin Honda HRC MX2 bike will make him faster neither make him slower.

Same goes with almost all those riders, and if you ask DV12 then he will tell you that the American riders will be privileged by the European setup those bikes have. Because US setup bikes don't always work on European tracks.

To send two bikes overseas the mechanic's and all the parts needed is just a bit more expensive than to send two bikes from Belgium to England...and to assume that the Martin GP bikes are anywhere close to the Geico bikes may be a little much...they use different parts from different companies that sponsor each team that they are contracted to use...so it's just not that simple...and until last year the Ausie team had riders that were either US or GP based and they had bikes shipped over or were already there...

jamma10 wrote:

How do you know Jeremy Martin, Aaron Plessinger, Adam Cianciarulo, Joey Savatgy weren't interested?

JMart seemed pretty interested on a podcast I listened to last week.

I assume logistics played a significant role in Covingtons selection.

DonM wrote:

Honda didn't want to send two riders over due to costs...It get's pretty expensive to do that with next to nothing coming from YS to help defray costs...

jamma10 wrote:

I saw someone else mention this about Honda yesterday, where did you hear it?

Factory teams tend to help each other out at the MXdN and I assume Honda will be there with Gajser and possibly Bobryshev, surely the extra cost would be negligible?

I want to say it was Matthes but don't hold me to it...It's not as easy as letting Honda's GP team help out, lots of different parts on the bikes that they are contracted to...not to mention different suspension as the GP guys are on Showa and US riders on KYB and that doesn't even cover the different suspension internal setups (the main reason US riders struggle)...

GuyB wrote:

I'm happy with whoever wants to go.

I also get why people choose not to go. A few of the guys I've talked to who have gone in the past said that it ends up costing them money. There's about zero financial incentive. If they don't win, they also catch a ton of crap from fans.

MXMattii wrote:

Funding is a problem every country has. But with two American Promoters like MXSports and Feld and a big area that isn't splintered into nations like Europe, it shouldn't be harder for the US then for Belgium, who need partners like local websites to get the budget OK!

Also team US makes it very expensive because they wanna import bikes and make there crew very big, that something myself, DV12, Paul Malin talked about on Twitter after lasts years event. I saw in Italy Arnaud Tonus kick ass on a borrowed bike from Dixon with only a few parts bolted on. Same goes for those Australian riders. So @Jamma if Jeremy Martin wanted to go, but his team wasn't up to it, he could make something work with HRC in Europe. Don't think that a Martin Honda HRC MX2 bike will make him faster neither make him slower.

Same goes with almost all those riders, and if you ask DV12 then he will tell you that the American riders will be privileged by the European setup those bikes have. Because US setup bikes don't always work on European tracks.

What do the "two American Promoters" have to do with sending riders to the MXoN? Especially Feld.

I have to laugh at all the folks from other countries worry so much about how the US team is chosen........

DonM wrote:

To send two bikes overseas the mechanic's and all the parts needed is just a bit more expensive than to send two bikes from Belgium to England...and to assume that the Martin GP bikes are anywhere close to the Geico bikes may be a little much...they use different parts from different companies that sponsor each team that they are contracted to use...so it's just not that simple...and until last year the Ausie team had riders that were either US or GP based and they had bikes shipped over or were already there...

Belgium to Brazil (1999) for example made that our MXON team, federation and sponsors were on a breaking point. Same happened almost for Budd Creek. About the Aussie riders that isn't true because Jed Beaton would be the MX2 rider and he would've ridden Meghen Rutledge bike, but he got injured so they shipped in Mitchell Evans because they knew Meghen bike was ready and competitive.

Also Todd Waters and Dean Ferris were already riding in Australia back in 2016. Just to set things straight. About the sponsorships conflicts. There are a lot of things in a bike that nobody sees, as long as people think you ride with your usual sponsorship parts...

@APLMAN99 You know it or not, but MXSports and FELD are paying a piece of the pie. Or that was at least the case when the Junior team rode in Liernieux. But I guess Davy Coombs can share a more clear insight.

DonM wrote:

Honda didn't want to send two riders over due to costs...It get's pretty expensive to do that with next to nothing coming from YS to help defray costs...

jamma10 wrote:

I saw someone else mention this about Honda yesterday, where did you hear it?

Factory teams tend to help each other out at the MXdN and I assume Honda will be there with Gajser and possibly Bobryshev, surely the extra cost would be negligible?

DonM wrote:

I want to say it was Matthes but don't hold me to it...It's not as easy as letting Honda's GP team help out, lots of different parts on the bikes that they are contracted to...not to mention different suspension as the GP guys are on Showa and US riders on KYB and that doesn't even cover the different suspension internal setups (the main reason US riders struggle)...

You'd think they would make the sacrifice for Roczen if he was fit and able to race for Germany though, surely?

"MXdN 2018 - What with ET3, MM25, BB4, Webb, JM6"

ET3 - Flat out wrong he refused his countries call.

MM25 - French

BB4 - Injured

Webb - Back riding now but during the run up to the team selection was injured

JM6 - After his 450 ride at Daytona I think he should have been selected to ride a 450....

jamma10 wrote:

I saw someone else mention this about Honda yesterday, where did you hear it?

Factory teams tend to help each other out at the MXdN and I assume Honda will be there with Gajser and possibly Bobryshev, surely the extra cost would be negligible?

DonM wrote:

I want to say it was Matthes but don't hold me to it...It's not as easy as letting Honda's GP team help out, lots of different parts on the bikes that they are contracted to...not to mention different suspension as the GP guys are on Showa and US riders on KYB and that doesn't even cover the different suspension internal setups (the main reason US riders struggle)...

jamma10 wrote:

You'd think they would make the sacrifice for Roczen if he was fit and able to race for Germany though, surely?

I'm sure they would but I also think that Germany would also come up with some money to help.

Plessinger will have surgery on his foot in the off season

MXMattii wrote:

Funding is a problem every country has. But with two American Promoters like MXSports and Feld and a big area that isn't splintered into nations like Europe, it shouldn't be harder for the US then for Belgium, who need partners like local websites to get the budget OK!

Also team US makes it very expensive because they wanna import bikes and make there crew very big, that something myself, DV12, Paul Malin talked about on Twitter after lasts years event. I saw in Italy Arnaud Tonus kick ass on a borrowed bike from Dixon with only a few parts bolted on. Same goes for those Australian riders. So @Jamma if Jeremy Martin wanted to go, but his team wasn't up to it, he could make something work with HRC in Europe. Don't think that a Martin Honda HRC MX2 bike will make him faster neither make him slower.

Same goes with almost all those riders, and if you ask DV12 then he will tell you that the American riders will be privileged by the European setup those bikes have. Because US setup bikes don't always work on European tracks.

DonM wrote:

To send two bikes overseas the mechanic's and all the parts needed is just a bit more expensive than to send two bikes from Belgium to England...and to assume that the Martin GP bikes are anywhere close to the Geico bikes may be a little much...they use different parts from different companies that sponsor each team that they are contracted to use...so it's just not that simple...and until last year the Ausie team had riders that were either US or GP based and they had bikes shipped over or were already there...

MXMattii wrote:

Belgium to Brazil (1999) for example made that our MXON team, federation and sponsors were on a breaking point. Same happened almost for Budd Creek. About the Aussie riders that isn't true because Jed Beaton would be the MX2 rider and he would've ridden Meghen Rutledge bike, but he got injured so they shipped in Mitchell Evans because they knew Meghen bike was ready and competitive.

Also Todd Waters and Dean Ferris were already riding in Australia back in 2016. Just to set things straight. About the sponsorships conflicts. There are a lot of things in a bike that nobody sees, as long as people think you ride with your usual sponsorship parts...

@APLMAN99 You know it or not, but MXSports and FELD are paying a piece of the pie. Or that was at least the case when the Junior team rode in Liernieux. But I guess Davy Coombs can share a more clear insight.

Come on Matti read what I said "and until last year"....So you're comparing one time in 99 to every year for team USA...Ok gotcha....as for the differences in the bikes...different exhaust, different clutch, different suspension...different motors...USA comes to win and to do that they will need their own bikes that they have been testing and racing all year to be competitive against all the GP based teams...

Paul333 wrote:

"MXdN 2018 - What with ET3, MM25, BB4, Webb, JM6"

ET3 - Flat out wrong he refused his countries call.

MM25 - French

BB4 - Injured

Webb - Back riding now but during the run up to the team selection was injured

JM6 - After his 450 ride at Daytona I think he should have been selected to ride a 450....

His "country didn't call".......Decoster a foreigner might have called, but definitely not Trump!

Matthes stated in podcast (as I recall don't quote me...) that Honda could provide for one 450 rider and they went with Seely vice Martin. Just a bout every other US rider is getting surgery, recovering, whatever. To the best of my only Eli just said no. As much as it disappoints me, I understand where he's coming from. If he races the MXDN, he will have no off season. If I was training all week, and traveling all weekend nearly all year, I'd want that small stretch off too.

DonM wrote:

Come on Matti read what I said "and until last year"....So you're comparing one time in 99 to every year for team USA...Ok gotcha....as for the differences in the bikes...different exhaust, different clutch, different suspension...different motors...USA comes to win and to do that they will need their own bikes that they have been testing and racing all year to be competitive against all the GP based teams...

You can bring your own suspension and exhaust. Clutch can be implanted on the borrowed bike. Also with mapping you can save it here and load it there. It is beautiful that Team USA always wanna push 110% when they come to the MXdN, but sometimes it feels like they are jumping over the horse. When I check out last years results I see very good results from Waters, Cody Cooper, Tonus, ... on borrowed bikes. I also saw Desalle race his best National on a borrowed bike (Unadilla).

MXMattii wrote:

Belgium to Brazil (1999) for example made that our MXON team, federation and sponsors were on a breaking point. Same happened almost for Budd Creek. About the Aussie riders that isn't true because Jed Beaton would be the MX2 rider and he would've ridden Meghen Rutledge bike, but he got injured so they shipped in Mitchell Evans because they knew Meghen bike was ready and competitive.

Also Todd Waters and Dean Ferris were already riding in Australia back in 2016. Just to set things straight. About the sponsorships conflicts. There are a lot of things in a bike that nobody sees, as long as people think you ride with your usual sponsorship parts...

@APLMAN99 You know it or not, but MXSports and FELD are paying a piece of the pie. Or that was at least the case when the Junior team rode in Liernieux. But I guess Davy Coombs can share a more clear insight.

DonM wrote:

Come on Matti read what I said "and until last year"....So you're comparing one time in 99 to every year for team USA...Ok gotcha....as for the differences in the bikes...different exhaust, different clutch, different suspension...different motors...USA comes to win and to do that they will need their own bikes that they have been testing and racing all year to be competitive against all the GP based teams...

MXMattii wrote:

You can bring your own suspension and exhaust. Clutch can be implanted on the borrowed bike. Also with mapping you can save it here and load it there. It is beautiful that Team USA always wanna push 110% when they come to the MXdN, but sometimes it feels like they are jumping over the horse. When I check out last years results I see very good results from Waters, Cody Cooper, Tonus, ... on borrowed bikes. I also saw Desalle race his best National on a borrowed bike (Unadilla).

With the pressure to perform that US riders are under to show up with suspension and an ecu isn't going to cut it...sorry team USA isn't going to do it half assed

The problem is the gap between Eli's last race and when the actual MXDN is held. Tomac will have to continue to train, and ride etc to be the best he can be if he were to race the MXDN. He knows what it takes to be a top performer and for him it's not worth it to show up unprepared. He has a small window of time to recover from 2017 racing/training and if he does the MXDN that small window to relax and recharge for 2018 gets even smaller.

If the promoters want the top US riders then MX Sports and MXGP need to get together and come up with a schedule that works better.