MXA - When Worlds Collide

Thor34103
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Edited Date/Time 3/4/2013 6:51pm
I posted this before and was underwhelmed by the lack of comments..........

I’ve been a lurker on the moto websites for years but decided to finally join some sites since the exciting year in SX is being followed by a great 450 championship battle. Great television for both SX and MX too. I have followed racing since the early 1970's and love being able to watch many races live and nearly all within 24 hours of the event.

Just recently I bought the August issue of MXA as I hadn’t seen an issue in close to a year. Nice surprise seeing article about Danny LaPorte and there are bunch of pictures of Danny sporting the classic JT gear ( he was one of my favorite riders and the JT stuff was THE gear back in the day). Towards the back of the magazine there is a piece by Jody Weisel “When Worlds Collide” that addresses a lot of issues facing the sport of MX around the globe. He spares no criticism of the various entities involved in MX on both sides of the pond and also raised a number of issues regarding MX Sports.

Until this article I didn’t realize there wasn’t a MX Sports riders points fund like they have in SX. One rider my son is friends with doesn’t understand the six dollar processing fee on rider entries at Nationals now. Considering the amount of sponsorship dollars coming in to MX Sports this six dollar fee feels like nickel and diming the people who obviously are a huge part of the program since without the racers there would be no races. What other "shows" do performers have to pay to participate in? Why nick the guys struggling to make it from stop to stop? With travel expenses, repairs, the poor economy, etc., when will you see the first national without a full 40 man field?

As I understand it there has also been a reduction in the amount of passes racers get for their friends and family too. No points fund, a six dollar processing fee on entries and fewer passes in the midst of what appears to be great sponsorship packages from Lucas Oil and Rockstar leaves me scratching my head.

I think MX Sports has done a great job with the Nationals and promoting them, but I’m just trying understand how MX Sports justifies maximizing their profits to this extent.
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ODB
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8/30/2011 3:33am
moto ,is years behind other sports ,i always was baffled by the entetainment paying to get in ..................the replies are the track owners are starving and need the money or the track will close ........its a 2 way street thats only paved on one side
Thor34103
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8/30/2011 4:26am
I like your last sentence...... Says it very distinctly.....
Shawn142
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8/30/2011 4:37am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 4:44am
Are you sure other major motor racing sports don't have entry fees or are you just guessing? I know for a fact Nascar does but obviously it's paid by the teams. Passes, licenses, insurance, all these other fees are just as real in every sport. It just appears to affect MX more because even though it's expensive, it's a sport somewhat within reach of the middle class at the pro level. This is one of the few major motorsports a guy can show up to in a pickup without any real sponsor to speak of except Mom/Dad and still make the show.
motogrady
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8/30/2011 4:41am
Took a check to a guys bank last week.
He had bounced one with me last year, I didn't want to wait the 3 or 4 days to see if it would clear.
BB&T charged me 6 bucks to cash his check.
You can afford to run a 4stroke, you can afford 6 bucks to pay someone to process the work required
to run.

At that level, it's a business. Have you looked at your phone or electric bill lately?

The Shop

Thor34103
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8/30/2011 4:46am
No idea as to if other motorsports charge entry fees. I would agree they probably do. But for someone to show up with something that can run NASCAR or Indy you have to have pretty good outside financial backing or come from a very rich family.

In regards to the phone or electric bill comparison, the phone/electric companies are not charging me to create services others are paying for. Tracks are charging the performers that are bringing in the customers so they make money on both ends.
sc961
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8/30/2011 5:01am
Tracks are charging the performers that are bringing in the customers so they make money on both ends.

I'll bet if you talk to a track owner, and delve into the expense side of running a race, your eyes may be opened a bit. Ever notice how many new tracks are popping up in your area? In our state, and surrounding areas, they are either closing or the promoters are getting out and one or two of the remaining seem to take over an existing operation. As for new operations coming in, I have to wonder how profitable they are because in the end that is the real reason for people to get that started.

Have you noticed over the past 5 or so years a number of National tracks no longer in the mix? Not that having a national isn't lucrative, but if you don't make the needed improvements to your facility or happen to hit an off weekend, there is potential to bomb out.

Don't kid yourself, with the 4 stroke movement, rigs, pit vehicles, and everything else that goes along with going to a moto race, you have either be well off or have some sort of decent backing. Unless you can run top 3 in B class at Loretta's or make some noise in the top 10 at the nationals, you are riding for the love of riding and not much more than a dream. It's a great dream, but none the less, a dream.
motogrady
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8/30/2011 5:10am
Thor34103 wrote:
No idea as to if other motorsports charge entry fees. I would agree they probably do. But for someone to show up with something that can...
No idea as to if other motorsports charge entry fees. I would agree they probably do. But for someone to show up with something that can run NASCAR or Indy you have to have pretty good outside financial backing or come from a very rich family.

In regards to the phone or electric bill comparison, the phone/electric companies are not charging me to create services others are paying for. Tracks are charging the performers that are bringing in the customers so they make money on both ends.
So, the girl that gets everything in line, as far as entries go, is supposed to do it "for the love of the sport?"
Crush
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8/30/2011 5:23am
Not that I would question someone or wanting to know how or why something works, it's your God Given right...

BUT...

I think there is so much to putting events like these on, and DC and crew always act with the sports integrity at heart, I am sure there is a valid reason if not a few....
motogrady
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8/30/2011 5:34am
Crush wrote:
Not that I would question someone or wanting to know how or why something works, it's your God Given right... BUT... I think there is so...
Not that I would question someone or wanting to know how or why something works, it's your God Given right...

BUT...

I think there is so much to putting events like these on, and DC and crew always act with the sports integrity at heart, I am sure there is a valid reason if not a few....
I'm sure there is a reason.

They need the money. Like any business. Watch the pennies and they turn into dollars. What's wrong with that?

Last time I ran, it cost me 25 bucks per class. 50 dollars to sign up for an amatuer race that had no possibility of paying me anything.

MXSPORTS, for a 6 dollar fee, gives you the right to claim your kid is a National caliber rider. Can you not recoup that
from a dealer, sticker manufacturer or powerwasher company?
Thor34103
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8/30/2011 5:43am
Professionalism in putting on these events has stepped up tremendously over the years. The successful tracks on the national circuit are shelling out lots of bucks in improvements. I am not knocking that one bit. But on the other side of the coin entries are dropping. Is it the few extra bucks being charged for sign up keeping the entries down? Not at all, but combine that with the higher cost of 4-strokes, travel costs to follow the circuit, etc. we are getting to the point that we will not have a full gate at some races. Hasn't this happened in the 450 class at some SX already?
zookrider62!
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8/30/2011 6:26am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 6:27am
Thor34103 wrote:
Professionalism in putting on these events has stepped up tremendously over the years. The successful tracks on the national circuit are shelling out lots of bucks...
Professionalism in putting on these events has stepped up tremendously over the years. The successful tracks on the national circuit are shelling out lots of bucks in improvements. I am not knocking that one bit. But on the other side of the coin entries are dropping. Is it the few extra bucks being charged for sign up keeping the entries down? Not at all, but combine that with the higher cost of 4-strokes, travel costs to follow the circuit, etc. we are getting to the point that we will not have a full gate at some races. Hasn't this happened in the 450 class at some SX already?
Is that necessarily a bad thing? Lets be honest, in the past SX had some sketchy riders that just didnt belong.



MXA is good at criticizing every other company, but I want to know what they do to help the privateers.
DC
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8/30/2011 6:32am
The higher process fee comes because we have to pay a higher process fee to banks and credit card companies to do all of that online.

The amount of free passes was slightly reduced so that the event promoters could sell more actual tickets.

Every dime from Lucas and Rockstar goes to TV production (and it still doesn't cover it).

We are working on building a points fund but its been very difficult in this economy the last three years.

DC
MX Sports
motogrady
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8/30/2011 6:35am
Wasn't LaPorte a GP rider? Didn't he win the 125 crown once or twice?

If so, prob just sour grapes. Where was Danny when the series AMA was up for grabs? How many series has he put together and run?
Is he on the hook for a million dollars a year? Besides putting together a sub 200 pound 250 KTM, which used a very expensive pipe he was connected with, what does Danny know?
flarider
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8/30/2011 6:38am
First, I don't think it's any secret there's some bad blood between MX Sports and MXA/Jody. They may be friendly on the surface, but underneath, maybe not so much. So, on that point, "consider the source"

Second, as far as I know, every motorsport has an entry fee, but did you realize how many of the elite motorsports offer no purse at all? There's no purse in F1 or MotoGP. There is an end of the year points fund, paid to the team. It's the team's prerogative (via contract) on how much of that to pay their drivers/riders.

If your issue is entry fees, how about your local roundy-round car track? That's a "show," no? They charge spectators to come see a "show," right? But those drivers pay entry fees also. NASCAR has entry fees.

You need entry fees for two reasons. One, to keep every yahoo who owns a motorcycle showing up to race Ricky Carbuckle, Ryan Villyfloppy and Bryan Spongy. You have to charge a fee so Mr Yahoo thinks twice about dropping a few hundred bucks to drag all his shit to the track only to be last in qualifying and a danger to everyone on the track. Two, entry fees release the promoter from liability or the insinuation of being an "employer." By paying to race, it shows that the rider is freely and willingly to compete and take the risk and not doing so through obligation to the "employer." By not being an employer, the riders are not in a position to claim unemployment benefits, injury/medical insurance or require any type of OSHA compliance. The track owner and/or promoter is not an employer, and requiring the racers to pay to play is evidence of such. By the way, riders are usually not "employed" by teams either, they're independent contractors.
dcg141
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8/30/2011 6:55am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 6:56am
My son caddied for a friend of his that plays golf on the Hooter's tour and the entry fees were are pretty high.
500guy
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8/30/2011 7:07am
If you can't afford to race don't go.
Mr. Info
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8/30/2011 7:26am
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.
DC
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8/30/2011 7:33am
Mr. Info, (Mark), now is the time to mention that you are the announcer at Glen Helen, right?

DC
MX Sports
35smom
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8/30/2011 7:50am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 7:53am
Are you guys really that stupid? If you use a credit or debit card in ANY transaction a precentage is charged...it the convienience of using it! You make it sound like they are doing ot on purpose. But yet you enjoy the live timing, webcasts and website that allows you to SEE and hear whats going on when it is going on. Bitch bitch bitch....
Im one the the few people that have seen and lived the progression on MX Sports in the last 13 years going from Amatuer to Pro. Its been amazing and every year gets better. People need to stop whining and learn to enjoy life...instead of just trying to find the next thing wrong.
mac3-d
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8/30/2011 7:59am
i heard a few years ago for a GP it was 400'000Euros over 1/2 million $ PLUS 80 or so 5 start hotel rooms for personel PLUS pay for meals for saturday & sunday provided by an Italian firm who travelled to all or most GPs. ALSO heard the entry fee for the GP series 16000 Euro only a few wild card entries from GPs country could get an single GP entry. most teams paying so no or few privateers . $6 does'nt sound too bad Blink
72kiteboarder
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8/30/2011 8:08am
Anyone that can afford to race a National can afford a 6 dollar fee. Get over it.
typ2vw159
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8/30/2011 8:10am
Mr. Info wrote:
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect...
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.
There is so much that goes on in the (Apartment rental,s) that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.




So true in all business i know what i am going to do to you way before you can stop it.

Coomb,s what the big deal that Mark posted. (Dump the TV program pay the riders and people will go to a nat if thay are about moto
Highsider
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8/30/2011 8:23am
motogrady wrote:
Wasn't LaPorte a GP rider? Didn't he win the 125 crown once or twice? If so, prob just sour grapes. Where was Danny when the series...
Wasn't LaPorte a GP rider? Didn't he win the 125 crown once or twice?

If so, prob just sour grapes. Where was Danny when the series AMA was up for grabs? How many series has he put together and run?
Is he on the hook for a million dollars a year? Besides putting together a sub 200 pound 250 KTM, which used a very expensive pipe he was connected with, what does Danny know?
World 250 GP champion 1983, if my memory is correct.
downandup
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8/30/2011 8:28am
35smom wrote:
Are you guys really that stupid? If you use a credit or debit card in ANY transaction a precentage is charged...it the convienience of using it...
Are you guys really that stupid? If you use a credit or debit card in ANY transaction a precentage is charged...it the convienience of using it! You make it sound like they are doing ot on purpose. But yet you enjoy the live timing, webcasts and website that allows you to SEE and hear whats going on when it is going on. Bitch bitch bitch....
Im one the the few people that have seen and lived the progression on MX Sports in the last 13 years going from Amatuer to Pro. Its been amazing and every year gets better. People need to stop whining and learn to enjoy life...instead of just trying to find the next thing wrong.
I don't think he started this thread "whining" but merely to find out why there are added fees and things taken away from the pros lately. Why, if someone questioning something, is it taken as whining?

He asked and DC came on the board and answered. Enough said.
8/30/2011 8:30am
I'd like to see the sport made easier on the privateers. If you have to charge 'em a nickel here and a nickel there at the very least put up a tent with some shade and tables and maybe a monitor like the press and VIP ticket area.


Credit card fee's? Now you are nickel and diming my sensibilities. I bet they won't accept a check or cash?



Villoflippy and spongey are less impressive when they are beating up on guy's who's ice cubes melted in their cooler before the first moto's start.

I like DC too......but you Davey cheerleader bodyguards need to give him suggestions too. Not every criticism or suggestion to him needs to be argued away to protect against made up petty expenses.

You do know that Dungey started a lap down and already knew that since they lapped 9th in the first moto the worst he would do was 9th or so?

Doesn't sound like top 5 is a big deal any more for a supported rider why not make them pay more to park in the front and show off the cordless drills?
Grieby54
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8/30/2011 8:31am
Mr. Info wrote:
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect...
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.
typ2vw159 wrote:
There is so much that goes on in the (Apartment rental,s) that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all...
There is so much that goes on in the (Apartment rental,s) that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.




So true in all business i know what i am going to do to you way before you can stop it.

Coomb,s what the big deal that Mark posted. (Dump the TV program pay the riders and people will go to a nat if thay are about moto
What did you even just say?

burn1986
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8/30/2011 8:32am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 8:33am
DC wrote:
Mr. Info, (Mark), now is the time to mention that you are the announcer at Glen Helen, right?

DC
MX Sports
Why are you always trying to front people out? This guy is on your side. Does it matter who these people are?

I actually have to agree with Motogrady, that these tracks run a business. Much of this is the related to the economy, and tracks need the money.
thatdad
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8/30/2011 8:36am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 8:39am
I do not believe it is just the six bucks, it is the chronic nickel and diming in addition to other ever increasing costs (fuel, four strokes,etc). Add in that the factory and other sponsor support has been cut way back and the racers are getting squeezed from both ends.

Unlike 35s mom, we haven't moved out of the am's yet, so my experiences come from that direction. It is the signup fees, ten dollars to mx sports for each lorettas class at the qualifiers, $40 for each class to the regionals, transponder fees, fees for lap times,more sign-up fees at the regionals, lorettas costs, pit vehicle costs, extra vehicle fees, etc. It appears that the mindset is that you are this far and we can squeeze another couple of bucks because where are you going to go.

I know costs for the tracks and I can assume mxsports have increased, but this sport has to compete with other forms of entertainment and it is getting to the point where the average racer is getting priced out.
typ2vw159
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8/30/2011 8:39am
Mr. Info wrote:
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect...
There is so much that goes on in the Nationals and GP's that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.
typ2vw159 wrote:
There is so much that goes on in the (Apartment rental,s) that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all...
There is so much that goes on in the (Apartment rental,s) that most people don't see. You have the right to question but don't expect all the answers to be there. Business is sometimes kept quiet to protect things inside. They have that right. Guys just enjoy it all while you can. One day you might not be here to enjoy it all.




So true in all business i know what i am going to do to you way before you can stop it.

Coomb,s what the big deal that Mark posted. (Dump the TV program pay the riders and people will go to a nat if thay are about moto
Grieby54 wrote:
What did you even just say? [img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i108/jaff23/Non-Photo/English_Mother_Do_You_Speak_I.jpg[/img]
What did you even just say?

I said your a d-bag and your comment is just another d-bag post. I can understand,have your mom read it to you.
ridge
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8/30/2011 8:44am
I think life as a motocross privateer is much better than it has ever been, and a large reason why is people like DC (mx websites, fans, X Games, etc.) have helped grow the sport to a level where every rider in the main has a great chance of getting TV time. TV time gets you noticed. Getting noticed gets you sponsorships.

You wanna know why we don't see too many privateers racing out of their pick ups and vans anymore? (Because they dont have to!)

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