MXA...The Crime of the 2015 National Numbers

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10/10/2014 5:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 6:28 AM

Came across this article over at MXA while looking for the 2015 list. He brings up excellent points and I do agree with most of what he's saying as the current numbering system is severely convoluted and flawed, but it's all we have until someone steps up and calls for change. I don't understand how almost one-third of the numbers are gone before the first number is handed out. What I really don't get, guys like chisolm run 11, and have for years because they were top 10 in combined points one time years ago, and he keeps it as long as he scores 25 points or he gets to keep it due to injury or whatever (ala josh hill 75, now milsaps and 18). Over the next few years guys getting top 10 in combined points have to settle for higher numbers as almost every number through 30 is now taken. Here's an idea....Make it harder to keep that career number, and make riders score 300 points or more to keep it, not the pathetic 25, or do away with the career numbers altogether. There are more guys finishing top 10 in points earning career numbers than there are kevin windhams retiring.

I understand the original concept behind permanent numbers with branding, but I don't understand the long term strategy. What is the long term plan for numbers? At some point there aren't going to be many numbers left for top 10 guys to choose from....

http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/the-crime-of-the-2015-ama-nationals-numbers

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10/10/2014 6:05 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 6:08 AM

well I'm pretty sure that Jordi Tixier's number is 911 not 84..... and I'm thinking he'll be running #1 in 2015 if CLS Kawi get their way

but it seems to me that there is no system that everyone is happy with, no matter what people come up with

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A Year In MX: One Man, One Year, One Sport
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10/10/2014 6:24 AM

I can't really comment on the whole problem but I mentioned this just a few weeks ago. The permanent numbers thing is filling up a lot of spots in the #2 - #99 spots. Like what the OP stated....it's probably around 25-30%. In fact KC11 was one of the examples I used.

300 points seem a little high to keep a number.....but I agree totally that 25 points is too low. Then there is the injury clause as well. I think previous permanent number holders can get a pass on missing out on points because of an injury. Which I agree with on that matter.

Fwiw....I haven't read the article yet. Will check it out later.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Ezza is Da man!

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

10/10/2014 6:37 AM

One thing that would help is, let the guys pick whatever number they want. (ie. CP 377, Hanny 100, etc.) I think Alessi is the only 3 digit number allowed.

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10/10/2014 6:44 AM

How about the higher the number, the more points are required to keep it? Let's say Bagget with #4 will require 300 points to maintain it, while Ken Roczen may only be required to earn 50 points to keep 94. That way, guys like Chiz would likely not be able to afford 11 and be able to maintain something a bit higher. Both sides are happy then. Perminant numbers, but the have to be earned more on long teen merit.

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

10/10/2014 7:19 AM

Or how about if you want a career number vs the number you earned it has to be a 3 digit number ala MA800, CP377, etc?

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10/10/2014 7:19 AM

bradnelson wrote:

One thing that would help is, let the guys pick whatever number they want. (ie. CP 377, Hanny 100, etc.) I think Alessi is the ...more

This^. Why would we force guys to run a two or single digit number? Seems pretty dumb to me that we have to have some complex system for figuring numbers out, just run what you want and stick to it, rather than changing it up every year. If someone can't tell that Alessi is fast because he still runs a three digit, then they really need to up their intelligence somehow.

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10/10/2014 7:21 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 7:22 AM

Or let guys like 22 Motorsports and 7 racing have something they can actually market and allow fans to remember 800 is Alessi etc without needing to remember new numbers every year.

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10/10/2014 7:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 7:41 AM

I also believe it needs some changes.
It could be set up in steps to maintain a number.
Misc Exanple
If you got your number by being 7-10 overall points you must make 200 points or be top 15 overall to keep it.
If you got your number by being 4-6 overall points you must make 125 points or be top 20 overall to keep it.
If you got your number by being 2-3 overall points you must make 100 points or be top 25 overall to keep it.
If you got your number by being a 250 champion you must make 75 points to keep it.
If you got your number by being a 450 champion you must make 25 points to keep it.

You could also add that those that got a number by getting 7-10 are not protected by the injury clause.

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10/10/2014 7:48 AM

Samdanny576 wrote:

Or let guys like 22 Motorsports and 7 racing have something they can actually market and allow fans to remember 800 is Alessi ...more

I agree with that because both James and Chad are past champions. I'm referring to the guys that haven't won a championship.....but have been top 10 in points......that get a career number. I think past champions should be able to keep their number as long as they still race and get the minimum amount of points. Something 100pts or something. I think 25 points is to. low.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Ezza is Da man!

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

10/10/2014 8:33 AM

I think the permanent numbers are stupid, part of the fun of a new season used to be seeing all the guys with the numbers they earned the previous season!!!

Marketing......who gives a shit, I'm sorry. I'm tired of hearing about people trying to grow the sport. It's big enough for me, actually it's gotten too big for me. Take me back to the 90's please when pros had fun, they enjoyed their jobs and you could go hang and ride with them at Perris on Wednesdays and Glen Helen on Thursdays. Those guys made plenty of money back then, and they didn't have to have a permanent number to market themselves. They just had to haul ass, and be cool.

My opinion may have some holes in it from a business standpoint, but it's my opinion and I'll stick to it until I die devil

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10/10/2014 8:38 AM

I kind of like the permanent numbers. I don tthink we;d see as many collectables and such if their number changed every year.

Looking back at vintage magazines, its very tough to recognize the riders since the numbers changed so often.

Plus, if the order does not matter, who cares of your runnign 3 or 93?

Maybe I'll start a fund anything account and promise to get to the bottom of this for all of ya?

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10/10/2014 9:25 AM

If branding is the priority, why use a number at all? Put KR / RD / JS / JM / AC on the plate. I appreciate that James Stewart is the last person that would participate in something like this - I'm just throwing it out there.

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10/10/2014 9:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 9:32 AM

This is a pissy little issue that there will never be agreement on, and it has not one lick to do with the viability and challenges to the sport.

There are three levels people deal with things

1) complain

2) Get worked up about changing things that don't matter, thus creating the illusion that someone is doing something about something.

3) Actually doing something about something that matters.

The numbering system is nowhere close to #3. But thank goodness someone is worrying about it like it is.

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10/10/2014 9:40 AM

socalmx716 wrote:

I think the permanent numbers are stupid, part of the fun of a new season used to be seeing all the guys with the numbers they ...more

I'm pretty sure riders now adays do not give a fuck what number they "earn" ...unless of course it's the number 1. I think the old system is a pain in the ass...mostly because it is hard to recognize a rider from year to year.

IMO I think a rider should be able to run whatever number is available to them, it's just a number.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

10/10/2014 9:43 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 9:43 AM

BobPA wrote:

I'm pretty sure riders now adays do not give a fuck what number they "earn" ...unless of course it's the number 1. I think the ...more

Isn't that similar what the GP's do? Like the mxa article says, the only thing worse than the ama numbering system is the GP's. Does anyone have any insight how the GP's award, give, or hand out numbers?

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10/10/2014 9:43 AM

socalmx716 wrote:

I think the permanent numbers are stupid, part of the fun of a new season used to be seeing all the guys with the numbers they ...more

As long as it's big enough for you...right?

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10/10/2014 10:13 AM

How about having their big number be permanent, like James and 7, but also having a small hub-size plate sticker that shows their result from previous year.

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10/10/2014 10:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 10:29 AM

Here's an idea. How about running the number you earned last year? The likes of Millsaps would be sporting a three digit number next year which he would deserve. At the moment "Joe Blow" thinks BB is the 4th best rider in the country.

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10/10/2014 10:33 AM

I don't have the answers I will just say I always though it was cool to see who earned what number every year...............

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10/10/2014 10:34 AM

Tracktor wrote:

I don't have the answers I will just say I always though it was cool to see who earned what number every year...............

+ 1

I wish they would vote on it!

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10/10/2014 10:36 AM

I like the numbering system. 14 is KW, 7 is JS, 22 Reed, 41 TC, 94 KR, 5 Dungey, 3 Tomac, 15 DW, and 199 Travis Pastrana!,

Branding is very important for our relatively small sport. We need the money put into it.
Career numbers allow sponsors to build multiple year marketing campaigns around their riders.

If they can increase sales, and profits, they'll continue to invest in our sport. If not, they'll put that marketing money somewhere else.

I say leave it be,



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10/10/2014 10:52 AM

I vote for letting them pick whatever number they want. I like permanent numbers because it helps me identify the riders easily during a race. The only earned number would be #1.

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Bret Bonham

10/10/2014 10:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2014 10:59 AM

....

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10/10/2014 10:59 AM

VET176 wrote:

Here's an idea. How about running the number you earned last year? The likes of Millsaps would be sporting a three digit ...more

Joe Blow would not automatically think that, because no high level motorsport runs where you finished last year as a system anymore, and MX was the last to continue to run it,

look at nascar where the car owners own a number, Jamie McMurray carrys the No 1 and has never won the championship

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10/10/2014 11:01 AM

the truly gay thing about the numbers is how there has to be an article every year explaining the process/selection/reasoning (HAH!) behind the numbers. every year.

go back to run what you earned, enough of the career number bullshit. all the top 10 numbers were earned in the 250/Lites class... and that's fuckin' dumb

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10/10/2014 11:05 AM

It's just a number!

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10/10/2014 11:19 AM

scott_nz wrote:

Joe Blow would not automatically think that, because no high level motorsport runs where you finished last year as a system ...more

Good example of how fucked up career numbers are. How could you drive a car with #1 on the side knowing you haven't earned it. Shame on them.

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10/10/2014 11:24 AM

VET176 wrote:

Here's an idea. How about running the number you earned last year? The likes of Millsaps would be sporting a three digit ...more

scott_nz wrote:

Joe Blow would not automatically think that, because no high level motorsport runs where you finished last year as a system ...more

VET176 wrote:

Good example of how fucked up career numbers are. How could you drive a car with #1 on the side knowing you haven't earned it. ...more

ill put it into an aussie context for you, are you saying Peter Brock should have run anything else but 05, or Dick Johnson should have to have run # 1 instead of 17 when he won the Touring car titles?

I agree with how the numbers are chosen at times, and especially that the SX Lites points are counted now,

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10/10/2014 11:34 AM

scott_nz wrote:

ill put it into an aussie context for you, are you saying Peter Brock should have run anything else but 05, or Dick Johnson ...more

Absolutely Scott, absolutely.

Wincup won last year and has the #1 on the car. Who came 2nd? #888?...... who came 3rd? not car #3.

anyway, Go Ford! (for this weekend) w00t

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