MXA Shootout

Tarz483
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Tarz483 9/25/2018 10:39am
9/25/2018 10:39am
Derek Harris wrote:
Im surprised the oems give bikes at all

They kinda Have to dont they ?
I think a lot more people base there purchases
On shootouts than some other people seem to think.
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mx_phreek
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mx_phreek 9/25/2018 10:42am
9/25/2018 10:42am
I just read MXA's test of kawi and yam 450's, in the what did we hate column on the Kawi "Clutch, it needs stiffer springs."
In the what did we like column on the Yam "Clutch, we installed stiffer springs for better hook up" ....
That made me chuckle lol
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/25/2018 10:46am
9/25/2018 10:46am
mx_phreek wrote:
I just read MXA's test of kawi and yam 450's, in the what did we hate column on the Kawi "Clutch, it needs stiffer springs." In...
I just read MXA's test of kawi and yam 450's, in the what did we hate column on the Kawi "Clutch, it needs stiffer springs."
In the what did we like column on the Yam "Clutch, we installed stiffer springs for better hook up" ....
That made me chuckle lol
In all fairness, I install the Rekluse TorqDrive clutch pack to make the entire clutch system last longer AND work better...
A lot of stock clutches are kinda soft. This is one of the reasons MXA rates the KTM & Husky so well. On this point, they nailed it.
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Paul333
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Paul333 9/25/2018 11:15am
9/25/2018 11:15am
Paul333 wrote:
Word of caution; Forums on any topic tend to start a downhill slide when their admin members become the experts, feel the need to reply to...
Word of caution;

Forums on any topic tend to start a downhill slide when their admin members become the experts, feel the need to reply to almost every post, and use their control of the forum/conversation to belittle other media outlets. Usually with a chip on their shoulder becuase more established media outlets are seen to have more credibility. It creates a toxic environment.
kiwifan wrote:
Are you saying MXA has more credibility than ML's? Seems to me that ML has more integrity when it comes to honest opinions than other media...
Are you saying MXA has more credibility than ML's?

Seems to me that ML has more integrity when it comes to honest opinions than other media outlets.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence we have several Vital test riders posting in this thread about MXA and a rash of “MXA Sucks” threads constantly popping up. It actually proves my original comment 100%.
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ctbale
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ctbale 9/25/2018 11:19am
9/25/2018 11:19am
I think the shoot out winner should be the bike thats the most purdy on the milk crate
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burn1986
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burn1986 9/25/2018 1:16pm
9/25/2018 1:16pm
All you need to see is the vid of the MXA shootout. Who cares about reading an article later in the magazine,lol
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ML512
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ML512 9/25/2018 2:42pm
9/25/2018 2:42pm Edited Date/Time 9/26/2018 10:21am
Paul333 wrote:
Word of caution; Forums on any topic tend to start a downhill slide when their admin members become the experts, feel the need to reply to...
Word of caution;

Forums on any topic tend to start a downhill slide when their admin members become the experts, feel the need to reply to almost every post, and use their control of the forum/conversation to belittle other media outlets. Usually with a chip on their shoulder becuase more established media outlets are seen to have more credibility. It creates a toxic environment.
kiwifan wrote:
Are you saying MXA has more credibility than ML's? Seems to me that ML has more integrity when it comes to honest opinions than other media...
Are you saying MXA has more credibility than ML's?

Seems to me that ML has more integrity when it comes to honest opinions than other media outlets.
Paul333 wrote:
I don’t think it’s a coincidence we have several Vital test riders posting in this thread about MXA and a rash of “MXA Sucks” threads constantly...
I don’t think it’s a coincidence we have several Vital test riders posting in this thread about MXA and a rash of “MXA Sucks” threads constantly popping up. It actually proves my original comment 100%.
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes, I’m goin to comment in here. I’d comment in an Shootout thread, regardless of which media outlet it’s about.

As for the ratio of MXA dislike threads, clearly it shows what the average user thinks of them if that many threads gets created by regular users. Currently on YouTube, they Shootout video has the highest dislike to like ratio...aka most downvotes per overall votes.

So you’re one spot on one thing, it’s not a coincidence I’m posting, I work here and it’s my job to post and share my opinion ?
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aroark247
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aroark247 9/25/2018 2:43pm
9/25/2018 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/26/2018 8:00am
MXA is a great outlet if you really want to know about the history of our sport, as almost every issue is packed full of the good ol' days of moto. The accuracy of dates and/or names might not jive, BUT WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION THE GREAT? I get Sick of their condescending tone to anyone who rides anything other than ktm/husqvarna. The need to put a little more focus on REM coverage.
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Derek Harris 9/25/2018 3:02pm
9/25/2018 3:02pm
Derek Harris wrote:
Im surprised the oems give bikes at all

Tarz483 wrote:
They kinda Have to dont they ?
I think a lot more people base there purchases
On shootouts than some other people seem to think.
I think the magazines should buy the bikes...

1
1
ML512
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ML512 9/25/2018 3:04pm
9/25/2018 3:04pm
Derek Harris wrote:
Im surprised the oems give bikes at all

Tarz483 wrote:
They kinda Have to dont they ?
I think a lot more people base there purchases
On shootouts than some other people seem to think.
Derek Harris wrote:
I think the magazines should buy the bikes...

I wish that was an option on my end, it come out of my own pocket if that was the case. ?
1
Underground 9/25/2018 3:53pm
9/25/2018 3:53pm
I didn't even bother clicking on the link. And the comments confirmed what I thought. That mag has been a joke for years
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 9/25/2018 6:03pm
9/25/2018 6:03pm
I honestly feel like the MXA results are more accurate for weekend warriors than most other tests. People are giving the the KTM waay too much flack for not having an arm jerking hit off the bottom. The CRF and YZ are great bikes, no doubt, but monster power output is only useful on a perfectly prepped track. Anyone who rides on hardpack, or does some trail riding is not gonna want arm jerking power all the time. MXA and DirtBike magazine cater to the offroad crowd a lot more than other publications, and I feel like that shows in their shootouts and tests.

Does anyone else here feel like Yamahas have a really akward riding position, with the footpegs being too high up? I love that their bikes are really reliable AND powerful, but I just can't get over those weird ergonomics.
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burn1986
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burn1986 9/25/2018 6:22pm
9/25/2018 6:22pm
You just get the feels big that Honda will never figure out that bike.
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MX558
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MX558 9/25/2018 8:38pm
9/25/2018 8:38pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
I honestly feel like the MXA results are more accurate for weekend warriors than most other tests. People are giving the the KTM waay too much...
I honestly feel like the MXA results are more accurate for weekend warriors than most other tests. People are giving the the KTM waay too much flack for not having an arm jerking hit off the bottom. The CRF and YZ are great bikes, no doubt, but monster power output is only useful on a perfectly prepped track. Anyone who rides on hardpack, or does some trail riding is not gonna want arm jerking power all the time. MXA and DirtBike magazine cater to the offroad crowd a lot more than other publications, and I feel like that shows in their shootouts and tests.

Does anyone else here feel like Yamahas have a really akward riding position, with the footpegs being too high up? I love that their bikes are really reliable AND powerful, but I just can't get over those weird ergonomics.
I do after riding the 19 Kawie , which I own now . This bike is awesome in every way
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 9/25/2018 9:01pm
9/25/2018 9:01pm
That's a sweet bike, congrats! I wouldn't mind a set of KX450 forks for my two stroke.
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Steve125
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Steve125 9/26/2018 7:50am
9/26/2018 7:50am
MXA will always be decidedly Pro 2-Stroke. therefore I can understand why they pick the lightest weight bikes with the least engine braking as their shootout winners. And those attributes are not against what vital and other media have concluded to. MXA just puts more value on them.
aroark247
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aroark247 9/26/2018 7:57am
9/26/2018 7:57am
BikeGuy321 wrote:
I honestly feel like the MXA results are more accurate for weekend warriors than most other tests. People are giving the the KTM waay too much...
I honestly feel like the MXA results are more accurate for weekend warriors than most other tests. People are giving the the KTM waay too much flack for not having an arm jerking hit off the bottom. The CRF and YZ are great bikes, no doubt, but monster power output is only useful on a perfectly prepped track. Anyone who rides on hardpack, or does some trail riding is not gonna want arm jerking power all the time. MXA and DirtBike magazine cater to the offroad crowd a lot more than other publications, and I feel like that shows in their shootouts and tests.

Does anyone else here feel like Yamahas have a really akward riding position, with the footpegs being too high up? I love that their bikes are really reliable AND powerful, but I just can't get over those weird ergonomics.
Yes I agree about the Yamaha. It is always boasted as a good bike for bigger guys, but in actuality the footpeg to seat height is the shortest in the class.

For trail riding it depends on the trail. All of the one's I've ridden were wayyy to tight/technical for any 450cc. The best trail bike is 350 cc and down and an 18" wheel
Paul333
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Paul333 9/26/2018 9:59am
9/26/2018 9:59am
ML512 wrote:
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes...
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes, I’m goin to comment in here. I’d comment in an Shootout thread, regardless of which media outlet it’s about.

As for the ratio of MXA dislike threads, clearly it shows what the average user thinks of them if that many threads gets created by regular users. Currently on YouTube, they Shootout video has the highest dislike to like ratio...aka most downvotes per overall votes.

So you’re one spot on one thing, it’s not a coincidence I’m posting, I work here and it’s my job to post and share my opinion ?
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40, or more "Average User" accounts. Posting under one account and logging into another to post again to push an agenda as needed. Without an admin team constantly running IP address checks it's almost impossible to stop. It requires a large team taking turns which virtually no forum does so it happens not stop.

Even simpler is just a small group of friends using their account to purposefully push an agenda. That's virtually impossible to stop.

Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/26/2018 10:06am
9/26/2018 10:06am
ML512 wrote:
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes...
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes, I’m goin to comment in here. I’d comment in an Shootout thread, regardless of which media outlet it’s about.

As for the ratio of MXA dislike threads, clearly it shows what the average user thinks of them if that many threads gets created by regular users. Currently on YouTube, they Shootout video has the highest dislike to like ratio...aka most downvotes per overall votes.

So you’re one spot on one thing, it’s not a coincidence I’m posting, I work here and it’s my job to post and share my opinion ?
Paul333 wrote:
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40...
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40, or more "Average User" accounts. Posting under one account and logging into another to post again to push an agenda as needed. Without an admin team constantly running IP address checks it's almost impossible to stop. It requires a large team taking turns which virtually no forum does so it happens not stop.

Even simpler is just a small group of friends using their account to purposefully push an agenda. That's virtually impossible to stop.

Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into.
Wow.

Conspiracy!
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ML512
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ML512 9/26/2018 10:08am
9/26/2018 10:08am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2018 10:22am
ML512 wrote:
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes...
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes, I’m goin to comment in here. I’d comment in an Shootout thread, regardless of which media outlet it’s about.

As for the ratio of MXA dislike threads, clearly it shows what the average user thinks of them if that many threads gets created by regular users. Currently on YouTube, they Shootout video has the highest dislike to like ratio...aka most downvotes per overall votes.

So you’re one spot on one thing, it’s not a coincidence I’m posting, I work here and it’s my job to post and share my opinion ?
Paul333 wrote:
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40...
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40, or more "Average User" accounts. Posting under one account and logging into another to post again to push an agenda as needed. Without an admin team constantly running IP address checks it's almost impossible to stop. It requires a large team taking turns which virtually no forum does so it happens not stop.

Even simpler is just a small group of friends using their account to purposefully push an agenda. That's virtually impossible to stop.

Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into.
I look into it all the time, we run cross checks pretty often. There's a couple bad eggs we catch doing it every so often, but not much lately. Especially to the extent of someone controlling a lot of accounts. Every once in awhile we find someone controlling a second account but they get clipped immediately. To put it bluntly, based on what I see here, the opinions I hear in person at local tracks, YouTube comments, etc...their popularity has wained quite a bit.

"Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into."

This last sentence has me slightly perplexed, by Vital are you referring to the community itself or the content staff in terms of "upset"?

If it's content staff, hell no Laughing

As for community, it's pretty clear that your interpretation of upset could also be classified as mockery or straight questioning of the feature due to the user base's opinion on them as a media outlet these days.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/26/2018 10:16am
9/26/2018 10:16am
I'm trying to figure out how the test riders can be perceived as "Anti-MXA" when the fact is...we all discussed the positive outcome of their long term approach when we were gathered & doing our 2019 shootout...?

Then, just a few posts back, right up on this very page...I gave them props.
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ML512
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ML512 9/26/2018 10:19am
9/26/2018 10:19am
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how the test riders can be perceived as "Anti-MXA" when the fact is...we all discussed the positive outcome of their long...
I'm trying to figure out how the test riders can be perceived as "Anti-MXA" when the fact is...we all discussed the positive outcome of their long term approach when we were gathered & doing our 2019 shootout...?

Then, just a few posts back, right up on this very page...I gave them props.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, no Shootout is better than another if there's honesty involved. It's all just an opinion and I implore anyone who uses them as a deciding factor when buying a new bike to read/listen to them all. No one should spend 9-10K on the bike that doesn't suit them.
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peelout
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peelout 9/26/2018 10:23am
9/26/2018 10:23am
MXA Shootot Result:

#1 - KTM
2 - Husquvarna
c - yamaha,
D - KawaSAki
- Honda
...Suszuki
MPJC
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MPJC 9/26/2018 10:29am
9/26/2018 10:29am
ML512 wrote:
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes...
Shootout is our largest feature of the year, the topic is being created on our forum, I regularly respond to any questions about our features...so yes, I’m goin to comment in here. I’d comment in an Shootout thread, regardless of which media outlet it’s about.

As for the ratio of MXA dislike threads, clearly it shows what the average user thinks of them if that many threads gets created by regular users. Currently on YouTube, they Shootout video has the highest dislike to like ratio...aka most downvotes per overall votes.

So you’re one spot on one thing, it’s not a coincidence I’m posting, I work here and it’s my job to post and share my opinion ?
Paul333 wrote:
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40...
I am sure you know 'Average User" means nothing. Forums can be comprised a million ways. One person or a small group can control 20, 40, or more "Average User" accounts. Posting under one account and logging into another to post again to push an agenda as needed. Without an admin team constantly running IP address checks it's almost impossible to stop. It requires a large team taking turns which virtually no forum does so it happens not stop.

Even simpler is just a small group of friends using their account to purposefully push an agenda. That's virtually impossible to stop.

Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into.
ML512 wrote:
I look into it all the time, we run cross checks pretty often. There's a couple bad eggs we catch doing it every so often, but...
I look into it all the time, we run cross checks pretty often. There's a couple bad eggs we catch doing it every so often, but not much lately. Especially to the extent of someone controlling a lot of accounts. Every once in awhile we find someone controlling a second account but they get clipped immediately. To put it bluntly, based on what I see here, the opinions I hear in person at local tracks, YouTube comments, etc...their popularity has wained quite a bit.

"Considering it seems Vital considers itself in competition with MXA's testing team and upset their results differ this might be something to look into."

This last sentence has me slightly perplexed, by Vital are you referring to the community itself or the content staff in terms of "upset"?

If it's content staff, hell no Laughing

As for community, it's pretty clear that your interpretation of upset could also be classified as mockery or straight questioning of the feature due to the user base's opinion on them as a media outlet these days.
Regarding whether Vital, in the sense of the Vital forum community, is upset that Vital's shootout results differ from MXA's, it certainly looks to me like the Vital community lacks anything resembling consensus. It would be rather odd if people found such things upsetting, wouldn't it? Interesting, perhaps. It's also the sort of thing that Vital members may be interested in understanding and explaining. It may provide an occasion for MXA (or KTM) haters to express their disdain. But none of this amounts to a whole community being upset by the shootout results. I think that most people (Vital community and Vital staff) accept that shootout results will differ, and are relatively unfazed by such results.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 9/26/2018 10:36am
9/26/2018 10:36am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2018 10:38am
I would like to hear as many of you answer as possible
Just Curious, if you Where going to buy a New 450 tomorrow, which would it be and why ?
And would the shootouts have an affect on your decision?

Me personally I would Buy the Kawasaki
Because its the lightest Feeling Japanese Bike,
It has electric start which is something I want , and a Hydraulic clutch, I like as light of clutch pull feel as possible
, and I like Green.
I would Say the shootoutswould Definitely Have an effect on my opinion , and based on what I've read I would choose the Kawi over the Yamaha based on light weight Smaller feeling and lighter Clutch pull.
The one thing that I do like about the Yamaha though is the option to change the Mapping with your Cell phone
I'm Curious if other Brands will Follow.
My personal 2nd would Be KTM, also Based a lot on the shootouts, because of being light weight and easy to Ride,
I feel like all 450's have more than enough power for anyone B class or Back.

Let's here your picks, based on just what you know Right now and probably not being able to go ride them
Which I havent either.

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/26/2018 10:52am
9/26/2018 10:52am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2018 11:03am
Tarz483 wrote:
I would like to hear as many of you answer as possible Just Curious, if you Where going to buy a New 450 tomorrow, which would...
I would like to hear as many of you answer as possible
Just Curious, if you Where going to buy a New 450 tomorrow, which would it be and why ?
And would the shootouts have an affect on your decision?

Me personally I would Buy the Kawasaki
Because its the lightest Feeling Japanese Bike,
It has electric start which is something I want , and a Hydraulic clutch, I like as light of clutch pull feel as possible
, and I like Green.
I would Say the shootoutswould Definitely Have an effect on my opinion , and based on what I've read I would choose the Kawi over the Yamaha based on light weight Smaller feeling and lighter Clutch pull.
The one thing that I do like about the Yamaha though is the option to change the Mapping with your Cell phone
I'm Curious if other Brands will Follow.
My personal 2nd would Be KTM, also Based a lot on the shootouts, because of being light weight and easy to Ride,
I feel like all 450's have more than enough power for anyone B class or Back.

Let's here your picks, based on just what you know Right now and probably not being able to go ride them
Which I havent either.

The Kawi was superb for me; but, it was a bit soft for up front (I'm to heavy for it...that's my fault!) and that didn't allow me to get the most out of it. The ergos are virtually perfect for a 5'8" rider.

If clutch wear is an issue, I'd get the TorqDrive clutch-pack from Rekluse. They use more plates and they have the steel "basket sleeves" that cover the aluminum tabs on your church basket and eliminate the wear that the stock aluminum baskets always suffer.

If you make the clutch change right out of the box, you eliminate the clutch-wear problems that MXA spoke of.

Note: I found the TorqDrive clutch pack @ RMATVMC for $349. That's all the plates (fiber and steel), springs & basket sleeves.
1
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 9/26/2018 10:54am
9/26/2018 10:54am
Tarz483 wrote:
I would like to hear as many of you answer as possible Just Curious, if you Where going to buy a New 450 tomorrow, which would...
I would like to hear as many of you answer as possible
Just Curious, if you Where going to buy a New 450 tomorrow, which would it be and why ?
And would the shootouts have an affect on your decision?

Me personally I would Buy the Kawasaki
Because its the lightest Feeling Japanese Bike,
It has electric start which is something I want , and a Hydraulic clutch, I like as light of clutch pull feel as possible
, and I like Green.
I would Say the shootoutswould Definitely Have an effect on my opinion , and based on what I've read I would choose the Kawi over the Yamaha based on light weight Smaller feeling and lighter Clutch pull.
The one thing that I do like about the Yamaha though is the option to change the Mapping with your Cell phone
I'm Curious if other Brands will Follow.
My personal 2nd would Be KTM, also Based a lot on the shootouts, because of being light weight and easy to Ride,
I feel like all 450's have more than enough power for anyone B class or Back.

Let's here your picks, based on just what you know Right now and probably not being able to go ride them
Which I havent either.

I'll give my picks...

1) Yamaha- Always feel comfortable on them and they are bulletproof! Great dealer support near me. Not the greatest contingency.
2) Kawi- Again, a bike I always feel comfy on and I know they last. Decent dealer support near me. Good contingency
3) Suzuki- Hard to choose between the two. I like the RMZ's turning ability and they can be found at a good price new. Ok dealer support near me. Good contingency
4) Husky- Always loved the look and name as well as knowing they are good bikes. Doesn't feel the most comfy to me, but doesn't feel horrible. Not many dealers within a close distance though.
5) Honda- Light and nimble. Good dealer support near me, but bike feels cramped. The 17 motor reminded me a lot of my 12 KX450. Twitchy in small choppy bumps.
6) KTM- Absolutely hate the feel of them when sitting on them. The ergos to me feel so weird and uncomfortable. Although, much better than the older KTM's. Decent dealer support near me.

My personal opinion on which bikes I'd choose in order.
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captmoto
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captmoto 9/26/2018 11:31am
9/26/2018 11:31am
brimx153 wrote:
Bottom roller wore out . ..... like really that's a fault . Come on . Suzuki are 25% behind 2nd last place. Yet ping says hc...
Bottom roller wore out . ..... like really that's a fault . Come on . Suzuki are 25% behind 2nd last place. Yet ping says hc piston .good revalve and slip on and it s in the mix . That s deff not 25% .
So just a couple grand to get up to par. $15 a gallon race gas to go with the HC piston too? ts still overweight and that matters to a lot of people.
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sandman768
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Saratoga Springs, NY US
sandman768 9/26/2018 12:38pm
9/26/2018 12:38pm
We all have an internal speed clock...most of us would likely go the same speed on any of these bikes...it's all personal preference ...I like the fact that MXA continues to test the bikes long term and continue with the updates. I trust MXA"s test protocol. I vote KTM....even the pumpkin haters have to agree KTM has pushed the the other manufactures to loosen up some r&d moneys for their bikes. Weight is real....he ain't heavy, he"s my brother ...
2
newmann
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newmann 9/26/2018 12:58pm
9/26/2018 12:58pm
What blows me away is how people read something that covers so many bases and aspects of all the individual bikes yet the only thing they come away with is "so and so said such and such was duh winner". A thousand threads on Vital about what bars, pegs, pipe, grips and levers to put on your new bike and who we sent our suspension too yet you all get pissy and say "they should leave them all stock for the test". Even the last place bike could be someones shootout winner with a few details attended to. Take Manny for example, the only old and fat (okay, just a little fatLaughing ) tequila swiller in the bunch. I'm probably going to pay closer attention to his comments than any other and yet it seems as if he has adopted the lowly pig of a porker Suzuki and taken it under his wing.

Some of you goobers are wound just a little too tight to be let loose out in public...lol.Laughing
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