MXA Put up or Shut up

burn1986
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burn1986
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 8:05pm
What is up with MXA? I have to say that I'm a little surprised at them over that last couple of months and their 2-stroke stance. Jody Weisel came out with the 2-stroke manifesto, then MXA began saying that 2-strokes are the rave and republished this article. However. . .

MXA has not helped in any way to support or sponsor one 2-stroke event, nor have they done one single full 250 shootout. Heaven forbid that they include the 150SX in a 250F shootout. I know that these bikes are not allowed in AMA Pro Racing, but they are allowed in the amatuers. What about a fully modified 150SX test? Even Dirt Rider responded to our calls and did a test of the 150SX against the 250F, but not MXA. MXA has not returned one letter, one email, or one phone call or gave any response to any or our requests.

You have to wonder, why not?
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raddad
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raddad 4/21/2011 7:47am
4/21/2011 7:47am
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe what they are saying they should boycott all 4 strokes and be a 2 stroke only magazine including dropping interviews of top riders and coverage of any kind of racing that includes 4 strokes.. there is a name for people like that but it just escapes me..
ccoady454
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ccoady454 4/21/2011 7:51am
4/21/2011 7:51am
They don't want to lose advertisers that make more money off 4 strokes and 4 stroke parts.
txmxer
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txmxer 4/21/2011 7:54am
4/21/2011 7:54am
raddad wrote:
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe...
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe what they are saying they should boycott all 4 strokes and be a 2 stroke only magazine including dropping interviews of top riders and coverage of any kind of racing that includes 4 strokes.. there is a name for people like that but it just escapes me..
although they go overboard, I think you have to take those things in context.

First, the best MX bikes ever are the current generation of 450 4 strokes IMO and I think that's what they are saying on that issue.

BUT, most of us are play riders, practice riders and weekend warriors. The most bang for the buck and most competitive in it's class for amateurs is the 250 2 stroke in the 250 class.
CrashMaster
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CrashMaster 4/21/2011 7:54am
4/21/2011 7:54am
raddad wrote:
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe...
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe what they are saying they should boycott all 4 strokes and be a 2 stroke only magazine including dropping interviews of top riders and coverage of any kind of racing that includes 4 strokes.. there is a name for people like that but it just escapes me..
If they followed your plan, they would be out of business faster than you can blink...Wink

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miedosoracing1 4/21/2011 8:21am
4/21/2011 8:21am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 8:22am
Think I'll just sit back and have some popcorn and watch the show.

burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 8:27am
4/21/2011 8:27am
Anyone have any contacts at MXA?
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 4/21/2011 8:31am
4/21/2011 8:31am
They have done a YZ 250 vs YZ 250f comparison.
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jndmx 4/21/2011 8:35am
4/21/2011 8:35am
ccoady454 wrote:
They don't want to lose advertisers that make more money off 4 strokes and 4 stroke parts.
Bingo!

It's all well and good to be the "two stroke faithful" but they can't forget who is buttering their bread.
burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 8:36am
4/21/2011 8:36am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 8:40am
"...who is buttering their bread."

Yeah, its called the Big 4.

It makes you wonder why they say anything at all about how much a 2-stroke is better than a 4-stroke, if it's going to cost them advertising.
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jndmx 4/21/2011 8:40am
4/21/2011 8:40am
burn1986 wrote:
"...who is buttering their bread." Yeah, its called the Big 4. It makes you wonder why they say anything at all about how much a 2-stroke...
"...who is buttering their bread."

Yeah, its called the Big 4.

It makes you wonder why they say anything at all about how much a 2-stroke is better than a 4-stroke, if it's going to cost them advertising.
Yup along with all the aftermarket companies that advertise in the mag as well.

Straddle the fence by talking about how much better the smoker is and you keep the "core" readers and all the while keep talking about how good the new machines are in the Shootouts.....keeps the money coming in on both sides of that fence.
burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 8:55am
4/21/2011 8:55am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
They have done a YZ 250 vs YZ 250f comparison.
Heck, they've done a bunch of them.

Now it's time to include the YZ250 in a shootout with all the 250Fs. In fact, the most waited on shootout that will never happen is the 150SX against all the 250Fs.

When, and if they ever do a shootout like these, then you will know that MXA is a true and objective source for motocross news and reference. On the flipside, if they don't, then you can rest assured that they aren't.
SRP33
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SRP33 4/21/2011 9:18am
4/21/2011 9:18am
From what I have been told they help with the 2 stroke national at Glen Helen
I think they are just explaining the difference from the 2 and 4 stroke they also have lobbied to have the 250 in the 250 class and we all know how that turned out.
But what ever its all good 2 and 4 stroke they are both good I think they should be able to ride together
miedosoracing1 4/21/2011 9:20am
4/21/2011 9:20am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 9:36am
The only thing I'll say, is this. Then I'll go back to watching. :-) Shootouts, are done for amateur riders or buying public per say, who can in a given area or promoter group for instance USA AMA, buy, race, ride a certain bike in a given class. Magazines no longer do tests for amateurs, including every magazine out, because none run their shootouts within those guidelines. They use ProAMA rules, which are for Pro AMA riders, that don't buy magazines and don't buy bikes. It's not about the public anymore... Ok, back to being quiet.
MBBadgers
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MBBadgers 4/21/2011 9:20am
4/21/2011 9:20am
raddad wrote:
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe...
Worse than that they test and rave about 4 strokes as great MX weapons yet they call us all stupid for owning one..If they really believe what they are saying they should boycott all 4 strokes and be a 2 stroke only magazine including dropping interviews of top riders and coverage of any kind of racing that includes 4 strokes.. there is a name for people like that but it just escapes me..
More then just Jody works there, there are several contributors, so I am sure we are seeing a number of opinions not just one.
500guy
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500guy 4/21/2011 9:38am
4/21/2011 9:38am
So Jody and MXA didn't have anything to do with the 2Stroke Championship at Glen Helen ?

Guess what guy's on the grand scale only 3 of you give a shit.
newmann
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newmann 4/21/2011 9:39am
4/21/2011 9:39am
For amateur racing, 125cc, 144cc and 250cc 2 strokes as well as 153cc bored and stroked tiddlers are all able to compete in the class. They should all be included in the shootout with the 250F's.since they are all available to the public for amateur racing. At least include the KTM's since they are readily available(until they all sell out that is). Would be interesting to hear a fast 15 year olds opinion on the differences and benefits of the KTM 150SX, 250SX and 250F tested back to back.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 4/21/2011 9:49am
4/21/2011 9:49am
Like already said it's just a fence straddle to include a niche readership that no one else is pandering to. Sprinkle in a touch of 2-stroke talk and look how much free advertising it offers. They know this stuff gets posted and paid attention to on forums. But to go asking for shootouts or more coverage.. you're asking them to tip the scales and probably lose readers/advertisers. Even from a distance surely you see thats not wise for them.

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mxb2
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mxb2 4/21/2011 9:50am
4/21/2011 9:50am
newmann wrote:
For amateur racing, 125cc, 144cc and 250cc 2 strokes as well as 153cc bored and stroked tiddlers are all able to compete in the class. They...
For amateur racing, 125cc, 144cc and 250cc 2 strokes as well as 153cc bored and stroked tiddlers are all able to compete in the class. They should all be included in the shootout with the 250F's.since they are all available to the public for amateur racing. At least include the KTM's since they are readily available(until they all sell out that is). Would be interesting to hear a fast 15 year olds opinion on the differences and benefits of the KTM 150SX, 250SX and 250F tested back to back.
Dirt rider did a comparison a few months back, ktm 150sx vs 250f .
burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 10:07am
4/21/2011 10:07am
500guy wrote:
So Jody and MXA didn't have anything to do with the 2Stroke Championship at Glen Helen ? Guess what guy's on the grand scale only 3...
So Jody and MXA didn't have anything to do with the 2Stroke Championship at Glen Helen ?

Guess what guy's on the grand scale only 3 of you give a shit.
Welcome back Lenny Cool
burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 10:11am
4/21/2011 10:11am
mxb2 wrote:
Dirt rider did a comparison a few months back, ktm 150sx vs 250f .
Yeah, they only did this comparison at our request. We initially requested them to do a full shootout with the Big 5 250Fs vs the 150 (and include a YZ144 if possible). When it was all said and done, they ended up doing it with KTMs only.

Even though MXAs 2-stroke whining is helping to some extent, its just a shame to see the magazine that we all used to hold as the MX Bible succumb to bribery.
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CamP 4/21/2011 10:32am
4/21/2011 10:32am
MXA does plenty for the 2-stroke cause. Get over it.
Motocross83 4/21/2011 11:33am
4/21/2011 11:33am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 11:35am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
They have done a YZ 250 vs YZ 250f comparison.
burn1986 wrote:
Heck, they've done a bunch of them. Now it's time to include the YZ250 in a shootout with all the 250Fs. In fact, the most waited...
Heck, they've done a bunch of them.

Now it's time to include the YZ250 in a shootout with all the 250Fs. In fact, the most waited on shootout that will never happen is the 150SX against all the 250Fs.

When, and if they ever do a shootout like these, then you will know that MXA is a true and objective source for motocross news and reference. On the flipside, if they don't, then you can rest assured that they aren't.
I agree that since a 250 2 stroke is legal in amateur AMA competition, it SHOULD be included in MXA's 250f shootout. However I don't really see the point (though I'm far from opposed) with the 150 SX - primarily because I think it's obvious that it'll get slaughtered.

MXA's YZ 250 2 stroke vs YZ 250 4 stroke comparison was a close run thing.

Many people would naturally predict that a 2 stroke with equal capacity will always beat a 4 stroke hands down. And in terms of pure hp they're right. But of course MX isn't drag racing. There are certain things 4 strokes do inherently better than 2 strokes (and vice versa) that have nothing to do with an unfair capacity advantage. The modern 250f is a very serious weapon that's had the benefit of non stop R&D since it's inception, which in reference to the above test, is why the 2 stroke didn't clearly win outright.

What chance would a 150sx have with it's huge hp gap?

If it finished last, and I heavily suspect it would - I have a feeling every die hard smoker fan would then immediately condemn MXA as biased.
burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 11:42am
4/21/2011 11:42am
If the petition produces a rule change (and I think it will) then we'll see if they will finally condede and do a test including a 150 and a 300 in their tests.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 4/21/2011 11:47am
4/21/2011 11:47am
The movement has now taken aim at one of its few allies, genius.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 4/21/2011 11:53am
4/21/2011 11:53am
GrapeApe wrote:
The movement has now taken aim at one of its few allies, genius.
All the while completely disregarding the threat from the lead law against the last true market for 2-strokes. That's the one that really blows me away. I see DC doing something about it, how about this core 2-stroke movement? Have any of these goofballs written their rep to ask for an exemption on motorcycles?
miedosoracing1 4/21/2011 12:49pm
4/21/2011 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 12:50pm
GrapeApe wrote:
The movement has now taken aim at one of its few allies, genius.
Well, back again. I'm gonna have to say. It could be genius. Only time will tell. Why? Because if not called on this, it will not happen. Everyone agrees, that shootouts will remain this way, no conspiracy, I mean, wait, isn't that what it means? I get confused. Money rules the world, and we know the reason shootouts are not run legit, because of money and power, so doesn't that make it a conspiracy? I don't know getting all confused with these red helicopters flying overhead. Anyways, pointing out that shootouts are made for buyers, may get some attention, just maybe enough that it has to be done. There are a lot of things that have happened in this world by protests. Pressure builds until it leaves no alternative. So only time will tell. Maybe magazines will all out just stop reporting anything they like about 2 strokes. So then, the one's (mag editors) who call everyone stupid or whatever names have been called, are just that? (Doubtful since KTM is now the sponsor for outdoors, and are showing some power finally) Or maybe, a true shootout will come out, that shows all 250cc bikes and below and then a all open class shootout. That would be cool. Not just for 2 stroke fans, but 4 stroke fans alike. Here's an example.



burn1986
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burn1986 4/21/2011 12:55pm
4/21/2011 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 12:58pm
GrapeApe wrote:
The movement has now taken aim at one of its few allies, genius.
Shawn142 wrote:
All the while completely disregarding the threat from the lead law against the last true market for 2-strokes. That's the one that really blows me away...
All the while completely disregarding the threat from the lead law against the last true market for 2-strokes. That's the one that really blows me away. I see DC doing something about it, how about this core 2-stroke movement? Have any of these goofballs written their rep to ask for an exemption on motorcycles?
Look, I'm not taking aim at one of our allies. It's true that if they're talking about 2-strokes, then that can only help the 2-strokes. I just wish they would put feet to their words. I guess I'm a little frustrated with them for not responding to my numerous requests and inquiries, but I don't wish for them to fall off the face of the earth. On the same note, I think they are affraid to do a full shootout, or any shootout including a 2-stroke against all the Big 4 (which is the only thing we have ever asked them to do, along with several other magazines). The real battle is with the AMA. They are the decision makers, not MXA. At least the certain members of the AMA have returned my phone calls and kept in contact with me through emails. So has Jimmy Lewis at Dirt Rider. Not once has he not responded to my emails. Vurb Moto has also responded to all emails that I have sent them. So has Eric Gorr. Daisy Hi-Torque Publishing has never responded to any phone calls or emails or letters.

I am fully aware of the CPSIA and the current status of the lead law and the push to get children's motocycles eliminated from this. There is also stuff going on with the ATVs but a Stay of Enforcement was effected 02/01/2011. I have called the CPSC and talked with several people there to get clarification of some things, as well as to see when the opportunity to give comments at the public meetings would be. I relayed this information to Davey Coombs, since he has been working on it and he said that he has a guy on top of it, so I have left it alone for right now. This doesn't mean I haven't done anything on it, since I can't attend the meetings in Washington.

I didn't plan to get into all of that, but there are many people who are working on things, that don't get noticed or mentioned. Sometimes they don't need to, or sometimes its better to just try and follow up on things without going to the trouble to explain all your activities for the sake of argument.
miedosoracing1 4/21/2011 12:58pm
4/21/2011 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2011 1:00pm
GrapeApe wrote:
The movement has now taken aim at one of its few allies, genius.
Shawn142 wrote:
All the while completely disregarding the threat from the lead law against the last true market for 2-strokes. That's the one that really blows me away...
All the while completely disregarding the threat from the lead law against the last true market for 2-strokes. That's the one that really blows me away. I see DC doing something about it, how about this core 2-stroke movement? Have any of these goofballs written their rep to ask for an exemption on motorcycles?
Look, I'm not taking aim at one of our allies. It's true that if they're talking about 2-strokes, then that can only help the 2-strokes. I just wish they would put feet to their words. I guess I'm a little frustrated with them for not responding to my numerous requests and inquiries, but I don't wish for them to fall off the face of the earth. On the same note, I think they are affraid to do a full shootout, or any shootout including a 2-stroke against all the Big 4 (which is the only thing we have ever asked them to do, along with several other magazines). The real battle is with the AMA. They are the decision makers, not MXA. At least the certain members of the AMA have returned my phone calls and kept in contact with me through emails. So has Jimmy Lewis at Dirt Rider. Not once has he not responded to my emails. Vurb Moto has also responded to all emails that I have sent them. So has Eric Gorr. Daisy Hi-Torque Publishing has never responded to any phone calls or emails or letters.

I am fully aware of the CPSIA and the current status of the lead law and the push to get children's motocycle's eliminated from this. There is also stuff going on with the ATVs but a Stay of Enforcement was effected 02/01/2011. I have called the CPSC and talked with several people there to get clarification of some things, as well as to see when the opportunity to give comments at the public meetings would be. I relayed this information to Davey Coombs, since he has been working on it and he said that he has a guy on top of it, so I have left it alone for right now. This doesn't mean I haven't done anything on it, since I can't attend the meetings in Washington.

I didn't plan to get into all of that, but there are many people who are working on things, that don't get noticed or mentioned. Sometimes they don't need to, or sometimes its better to just try and follow up on things without goint to the trouble to explain all your activities for the sake of argument.



@Shawn
PWNED. LOL
I will say, the post before this, that you made was one of the most intelligent posts you've ever posted.. Then this, it went all back down hill.

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