MXA 2020 450 Shootout

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10/23/2019 7:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/23/2019 8:11 AM

How do you avoid a Yamaha beating a KTM? That's easy, just change the format, ignore the obvious, and make the shootout as confusing as possible. Who knows you may even end up with a Suzuki in one of the top 3 spots.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-vVd7HLN-E

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10/23/2019 7:33 AM

Not confusing at all. *shrug*
IMHO this was a very informed video and they covered the pros and cons. 5 months of riding and racing the bikes - that speaks volumes. I really liked how they categorized what type of rider each bike would be best for.

Sorry if your bike didn’t win, but it’s been said many times they are all great, and a consumer should beg, borrow, or steal his own test ride before plunking down 10K.

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10/23/2019 7:46 AM

I know this will come as a HUGE surprise to some... KTM won the MXA shootout! Shocking I know.

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Race Bike: 2018 KTM 350SXF

Other Bikes: 1985 CR80R, 1990 CR250R, 1998 PW80, Specialized Fuse Comp 29.

Sold: 2016 YZ250F, 2012 CRF250R

10/23/2019 8:19 AM

Oh no...KTM Action must be getting a kickback from KTM since their bikes win all the time. On, wait...it was Yamaha Action. Oh, wait...before that it was Honda Action..

Christ, give it a rest. Sorry the fanboys get butt-hurt because "their" brand didn't win. After subscribing to MXA for 40 years, they are about the ONLY mag I trust to give impartial opinions..but that's just me. Opinions are like assholes...everybody has one, and they all stink...

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10/23/2019 8:40 AM

decent shootout. different approach.

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10/23/2019 9:12 AM

Criticizing MXA means you're core bro.

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10/23/2019 9:16 AM

Yeah. Obviously, they left out the part where the 15 pound lighter bike 'feels' heavier. Virginia.....

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10/23/2019 9:46 AM

I really liked this shootout, besides all the defensive BS at the start. Nice to break it down by what type of riding you do. I am a Yamaha guy but I can see why the KTM is so great.

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10/23/2019 9:56 AM

ddog558 wrote:

Oh no...KTM Action must be getting a kickback from KTM since their bikes win all the time. On, wait...it was Yamaha Action. Oh, wait...before that it was Honda Action..

Christ, give it a rest. Sorry the fanboys get butt-hurt because "their" brand didn't win. After subscribing to MXA for 40 years, they are about the ONLY mag I trust to give impartial opinions..but that's just me. Opinions are like assholes...everybody has one, and they all stink...

I feel like MXA at least let's you know their priorities, when they decide these shootouts. It is obvious that lately they place a lot into KTM's effort to give the customer all of the modern comforts (e-start, hydro clutch, good brakes, selectable maps on the bars etc) w/o adding weight. Plus KTMs have pretty neutral handling that is really good overall and not a glaring weakness,since the suspension is pretty good. And I get that. It is up to the reader to decide if they value those same things. I can certainly see why the Yamaha did so well this year. But for me personally, it is still kind of hard to get over how big the bike is/feels. And they just seem to have their quirks as far as feel. But for some reason it doesn't seem to matter as much on the 250F (which the Yamaha would be my first choice). Basically, I am not shocked that MXA picked the KTM, based on their pattern of things that they value. And I don't think it is some kind of conspiracy.

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10/23/2019 10:21 AM

In 2018 The KTM was pretty much winning the shootouts
I think In all magazines and got a real lot of praise that year.
Since then They have made some changes that seem like didnt help and a lot of people didnt like.
What I gather from reading MXA shootouts both 2019 and 2020, is that with a couple minor changes, mapping etc.
That you can get it back to where it was in 2018
When almost everyone liked it.

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10/23/2019 11:15 AM

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

10/23/2019 11:35 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

Manny, I know you are big on the RMZ's and my dad loves the 3 he has had and I really like the 17 I'm riding right now. Have any tips for the 17's? Mine is still brand new and only had 4-5 hours on it. Motor usually stays stock on all of our bikes.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

10/23/2019 11:57 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Manny, I know you are big on the RMZ's and my dad loves the 3 he has had and I really like the 17 I'm riding right now. Have any tips for the 17's? Mine is still brand new and only had 4-5 hours on it. Motor usually stays stock on all of our bikes.

Keep the clutches fresh and go to -3- stiffer clutch springs (located "every-other" of the spring locations). You can get OEM plates at Babbits or RMATVMC for a good price and/or shop your local joint and bounce those prices off of them. I've ran Rekluse Clutch-Packs with good results.

Get the forks done by whoever is your fav suspension co. I ran PC and Enzo on the '17 with damn good results.
The '17 has an EXCELLENT rear shock.

That engine DOES like a good pipe.
I ran the lean ECU plug and VPs T4...got plenty off hole-shots and it ran like a champ.
I ran Engine Ice and good oil in mine.

I spent most of '17 on that bike and it was SUPER dependable and was a great race bike.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

10/23/2019 12:13 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Manny, I know you are big on the RMZ's and my dad loves the 3 he has had and I really like the 17 I'm riding right now. Have any tips for the 17's? Mine is still brand new and only had 4-5 hours on it. Motor usually stays stock on all of our bikes.

Best thing I did for my 17 was put 2018 forks on it. Makes the bike absolutely perfect. Frame isn’t as rigid as the new model, and the shock is Prab the best shock put on a production bike as it’s an A kit replica. When I’ve asked anyone if upgrading my 17 to the new gen RMZ, everyone said the 17 is much better overall. Admittedly the new gen looks better. But like chicks, looks only get you so far....

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10/23/2019 12:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/23/2019 12:19 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

In 2018 The KTM was pretty much winning the shootouts
I think In all magazines and got a real lot of praise that year.
Since then They have made some changes that seem like didnt help and a lot of people didnt like.
What I gather from reading MXA shootouts both 2019 and 2020, is that with a couple minor changes, mapping etc.
That you can get it back to where it was in 2018
When almost everyone liked it.

Why is MXA so different to most if not all other shootout results?

Funny thing is get the Honda a decent map to smooth it out a bit more and its a different (and actually more powerful but easier to ride) beast same with some minor suspension tweaks, the same thing they say about the KTM. Problem is you can apply that logic to any bike, well most of them.

In saying that, I give MXA kudos for actually breaking it down into Pro, Weekend warrior, Vet and Overall categories.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

10/23/2019 12:20 PM

But it was never "Cannondale action"

🤣

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10/23/2019 12:34 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Manny, I know you are big on the RMZ's and my dad loves the 3 he has had and I really like the 17 I'm riding right now. Have any tips for the 17's? Mine is still brand new and only had 4-5 hours on it. Motor usually stays stock on all of our bikes.

TeamGreen wrote:

Keep the clutches fresh and go to -3- stiffer clutch springs (located "every-other" of the spring locations). You can get OEM plates at Babbits or RMATVMC for a good price and/or shop your local joint and bounce those prices off of them. I've ran Rekluse Clutch-Packs with good results.

Get the forks done by whoever is your fav suspension co. I ran PC and Enzo on the '17 with damn good results.
The '17 has an EXCELLENT rear shock.

That engine DOES like a good pipe.
I ran the lean ECU plug and VPs T4...got plenty off hole-shots and it ran like a champ.
I ran Engine Ice and good oil in mine.

I spent most of '17 on that bike and it was SUPER dependable and was a great race bike.

Haha yeah, my dad has put 3 clutches in his and it only has 25 hours on it. He likes to keep it fresh. He also got his suspension done by Enzo on his 15 and 17 and absolutely loves it. I'll get mine done after it breaks in a bit.

Thanks for the tips Manny! Will you be at DITD this year?

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

10/23/2019 12:39 PM

kiwifan wrote:

Why is MXA so different to most if not all other shootout results?

Funny thing is get the Honda a decent map to smooth it out a bit more and its a different (and actually more powerful but easier to ride) beast same with some minor suspension tweaks, the same thing they say about the KTM. Problem is you can apply that logic to any bike, well most of them.

In saying that, I give MXA kudos for actually breaking it down into Pro, Weekend warrior, Vet and Overall categories.

1 constant that I saw for the Honda in almost all of the tests is that it is hard to set-up and once it gets set-up, it can go to another track with different conditions and feel totally different all over again. That does not seem to be the case with the KTM or Yamaha. So basically, testers find the bike to be inconsistent from day to day.

Also, MXA seems to not mind the AER fork. In Keefer's test the KTM got great marks but he (and his crew) seem to think the AER holds that bike back. But it still was rated above the Honda.

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10/23/2019 1:08 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

In 2018 The KTM was pretty much winning the shootouts
I think In all magazines and got a real lot of praise that year.
Since then They have made some changes that seem like didnt help and a lot of people didnt like.
What I gather from reading MXA shootouts both 2019 and 2020, is that with a couple minor changes, mapping etc.
That you can get it back to where it was in 2018
When almost everyone liked it.

kiwifan wrote:

Why is MXA so different to most if not all other shootout results?

Funny thing is get the Honda a decent map to smooth it out a bit more and its a different (and actually more powerful but easier to ride) beast same with some minor suspension tweaks, the same thing they say about the KTM. Problem is you can apply that logic to any bike, well most of them.

In saying that, I give MXA kudos for actually breaking it down into Pro, Weekend warrior, Vet and Overall categories.

AH387 wrote:

1 constant that I saw for the Honda in almost all of the tests is that it is hard to set-up and once it gets set-up, it can go to another track with different conditions and feel totally different all over again. That does not seem to be the case with the KTM or Yamaha. So basically, testers find the bike to be inconsistent from day to day.

Also, MXA seems to not mind the AER fork. In Keefer's test the KTM got great marks but he (and his crew) seem to think the AER holds that bike back. But it still was rated above the Honda.

Oh dont get me wrong I know how finicky the Honda setup can be initially, but I find track to track its only a couple of clickers here and there rather than a completely different setup

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

10/23/2019 1:08 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

RMZ 450: "Get the shock fixed & leave everything-else alone." as they rated it 3rd for the Average Weekend Warrior.

'Nuff said.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Manny, I know you are big on the RMZ's and my dad loves the 3 he has had and I really like the 17 I'm riding right now. Have any tips for the 17's? Mine is still brand new and only had 4-5 hours on it. Motor usually stays stock on all of our bikes.

colvin227 wrote:

Best thing I did for my 17 was put 2018 forks on it. Makes the bike absolutely perfect. Frame isn’t as rigid as the new model, and the shock is Prab the best shock put on a production bike as it’s an A kit replica. When I’ve asked anyone if upgrading my 17 to the new gen RMZ, everyone said the 17 is much better overall. Admittedly the new gen looks better. But like chicks, looks only get you so far....

I did have someone that did testing for Suzuki tell me to keep the 17 because overall it was a better package. I really like the 17 though. Not much time on it, but overall it's really good. I'll have either Enzo or N2Dirt do the suspension after it's broken in. The air forks don't bother me and I know those two can set them up really well.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

10/23/2019 3:34 PM

kiwifan wrote:

Why is MXA so different to most if not all other shootout results?

Funny thing is get the Honda a decent map to smooth it out a bit more and its a different (and actually more powerful but easier to ride) beast same with some minor suspension tweaks, the same thing they say about the KTM. Problem is you can apply that logic to any bike, well most of them.

In saying that, I give MXA kudos for actually breaking it down into Pro, Weekend warrior, Vet and Overall categories.

Map #2 alllll the way. Map #3 on the WE Honda is pull your arms out stupid.

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10/23/2019 3:38 PM

Looks like Roger will still be paying Jody's AMEX bill. Ha!

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10/23/2019 5:21 PM

OK I'll bite.
MXA's description of the YZ's cons almost make it surprising that it was in a shootout for the win.
A mid to high rpm engine with the lowest torque in the test. Odd ergonomics with a loud cockpit. Heavy compared to Austrian bikes. It appears that the KYB's save the day and sway the results a ton. When you get to the Pro's everybody has good suspension.

So they call the KTM the winner, but in their own words from the Husqvarna test:

"Although everyone loved it, the Pros wanted more immediate hit off the bottom, but, in tests, their lap times were faster on the kinder and gentler Husqvarna powerband than on the more aggressive and rigid 2020 KTM 450SXF."

Testing is such a compromise.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/23/2019 5:30 PM

i can't believe they left the Beta out of the shootout whistling

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10/23/2019 5:47 PM

Beta will be in next years, you should see the 2021 Beta 450 and 250 four strokes.

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10/23/2019 5:50 PM

'What's the best bike for me?" mainly depends on how many laps you ride consecutive, IMO. The Yamaha and Honda with more power and more weight are manageable and fast for fewer laps than the lighter and mellower KTM and Husky.

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10/23/2019 6:36 PM

On the KX450, the video text sais Torque: 34.83 the audio sais 38.83. So which is it?

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10/23/2019 11:08 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

In 2018 The KTM was pretty much winning the shootouts
I think In all magazines and got a real lot of praise that year.
Since then They have made some changes that seem like didnt help and a lot of people didnt like.
What I gather from reading MXA shootouts both 2019 and 2020, is that with a couple minor changes, mapping etc.
That you can get it back to where it was in 2018
When almost everyone liked it.

kiwifan wrote:

Why is MXA so different to most if not all other shootout results?

Funny thing is get the Honda a decent map to smooth it out a bit more and its a different (and actually more powerful but easier to ride) beast same with some minor suspension tweaks, the same thing they say about the KTM. Problem is you can apply that logic to any bike, well most of them.

In saying that, I give MXA kudos for actually breaking it down into Pro, Weekend warrior, Vet and Overall categories.

BroFoSho wrote:

Map #2 alllll the way. Map #3 on the WE Honda is pull your arms out stupid.

hehehe....

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

10/24/2019 5:18 AM

MXA has lost all credibility - the 250 SO is even worse. The guys right here at VItal did a great shootout as did SWAP

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10/24/2019 6:09 AM

This is why Shootout's shouldn't be done any more people just BITCH and MOAN

Most people I know don't ride bikes stock anyway, any one of these bikes you would have to throw some money at it to get it right for you

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