MX sports age restrictions. Negative

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12/24/2015 3:22 PM

When I was 14 yrs old about 5 foot 4 in. and 125 lbs, for about half a year I raced local races on a supermini, 250f, and 450f and won. If you are 14 and are fast enough to qualify for Lorettas on a 450 then you should be applauded not denied the chance to race. Same goes for any 12 or 13 year old on a 250f. We're supposed to believe these restrictions were made to keep kids safe? I call B.S.

My cynical mind tells me this is more to do with a marketing ploy, forcing kids into the the 2-stroke classes. Kick-backs from KTM? Maybe. Forcing American amateurs to stay off of certain sized bikes is slap in the face to talented riders and is kind of similar to the idea of Big Brother knows what's best for you. Which is exactly what I hate about my own Government telling me I cant buy a certain sized soft drink, or hold too many guns( I don't have any)....

Anyway.. thoughts, comments, concerns?

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12/24/2015 3:24 PM

KTM kickbacks? Ha... you lost me there.laughing

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12/24/2015 3:24 PM

I think you've been dipping into the egg nog a bit early, eh?

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12/24/2015 3:26 PM

A-1 Syndrome

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

12/24/2015 3:27 PM

You are in the minority in regards to your views of the sport.

Sincerely,
2 liter buying shot gun toting redneck.

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12/24/2015 3:28 PM

Photo

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

12/24/2015 3:32 PM

Just because a few can make it work, doesn't make it a good idea. The reality is the jump from two stroke mini bikes to full size four strokes is a huge leap for parents to make. Spending time on a 125 is more economical for most families and will promote and encourage manifacturers to dip back into the two stroke market that will be created. In doing so, it'll create more growth in the industry and will help to fuel it. Probably all kinds of things most people take for granted, but there's a lot that goes into these decisions.

Guess if you grew up racing a go-kart we shouldn't make you wait until you're 16 for a drivers license either?

Call BS all you want; this is a great move for the sport. People will become better riders in the end, and families will stay in the sport. I see a lot of families at the shop that bail out once their kids hit the big bikes due to dollars and cents. It didn't used to be that way. Don't be so short sighted and think only of yourself and your (limited?) experience. To not see this as a good move is asinine at best.

Shane

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12/24/2015 3:33 PM

Thought the AMA makes the AM rules...and the AMA typically caters to the Japanese OEM's regarding rules. Exactly how is MXSports responsible for rules they didn't make?

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Many thanks to everyone helping me out this GNCC season: SRT Offroad, Acerbis, FCR Suspension, O'Neal Racing, Evans Waterless Coolants, Rekluse, Twin Air, Braking Brakes, Carbsport

Profile image credit Ken Hill Photography

12/24/2015 3:36 PM

egg nog, the best of all the nog's

In the UK , guys who are especially, talented, or too tall for the little bikes can get moved up , but i think 250f limit is 14 , 450 is 16 .

Also , once you go up off an 85 , there is no going back.

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12/24/2015 3:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/24/2015 3:38 PM

Man, he saw right through the two-smoke screen... Nailed it.

A KTM Kickback is one of those trick scooters, right? When do I get it? I can use it in the parking lot at Anaheim! No more walking for me -- I'm getting a KTM Kickback Deluxe Scooter!

Thanks aroark247, I'm with you: God, Guns, Big Gulps and Even Bigger Dirt Bikes. Merry Christmas bro.

Kidding.

DC

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12/24/2015 3:40 PM

philG wrote:

egg nog, the best of all the nog's

In the UK , guys who are especially, talented, or too tall for the little bikes can get ...more

The strange thing is that even in street bikes Europeans ride circles around Americans due to their tiered/graduated licensing system. You actually learn to really ride out of ability rather than fear. There's a huge difference.

And lately, the European's haven't been doing so shabby in the off-road segment.

Shane

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12/24/2015 3:45 PM

DC wrote:

Man, he saw right through the two-smoke screen... Nailed it.

A KTM Kickback is one of those trick scooters, right? When do I ...more

Well when I see DC posting I wish I had a turtle shell to hide in. You're not supposed to be reading this crap. This for bench racing conspirators. Ok, the KTM thing was a little too deep. But I swear Lee Harvey Oswald was not the only shooter

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12/24/2015 3:51 PM

KTMShane699 wrote:

Just because a few can make it work, doesn't make it a good idea. The reality is the jump from two stroke mini bikes to full ...more

Seriously I liked this perspective. However the doctor said I was farsighted not short. And my asinine? No it's a ten.

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12/24/2015 3:51 PM

DC....thought you'd chime in at some point...
Merry Christmas to you and yours. GNCC banquet was grand too. Looking forward to 2016!

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Many thanks to everyone helping me out this GNCC season: SRT Offroad, Acerbis, FCR Suspension, O'Neal Racing, Evans Waterless Coolants, Rekluse, Twin Air, Braking Brakes, Carbsport

Profile image credit Ken Hill Photography

12/24/2015 3:55 PM

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

People are scared of change and look back on the races they won at chicken finger raceway and think it applies to the amateur championships.

Keep the tin foil on your ham and off your head this holiday season.

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12/24/2015 3:55 PM

ML512 wrote:

KTM kickbacks? Ha... you lost me there.laughing

at least someone laughed

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12/24/2015 4:01 PM

aroark247 wrote:

Seriously I liked this perspective. However the doctor said I was farsighted not short. And my asinine? No it's a ten.

There are a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that the vast majority aren't exposed to. And it doesn't sound like you're "that old" to have been around a while.

In the 90's it wasn't uncommon for racing families to buy a 125 and a 250 to race all year. And buy two more bikes the following year. Now for the same money, you get one four stroke and try to keep it going. KTM has market share not because of kickbacks, but because they make a product line that families can follow. Start on a 50, 65, 85/105, 125 and beyond. The steps are smaller (financially) and more tangible. This keeps a family on a brand and allows them to always take that "little bit more" in the next step. When the leap gets big, it's more difficult and scares families out of the sport.

Glad your ass isn't only a nine and it's a ten. You must work out. Good for you.

Merry Christmas.

Shane

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12/24/2015 4:11 PM

KTMShane699 wrote:

There are a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that the vast majority aren't exposed to. And it doesn't sound like ...more

You're right I'm young. I understand what you're saying and actually agree with it. I may be young but I'm not dumb. Right now, it seems KTM is taking advantage of the fact that they have the most extensive line because even their prices are astronomical for small bores.

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12/24/2015 4:24 PM

All good aroark247, it really is a rule that we hope will have several effects, but safety is the #1 reason. Just as football and soccer have made some big changes recently, we (AMA, MX Sports, common sense) felt this was something we should just do.

And next time I'm in Dallas let's go check out the grassy knoll, love that place and the museum in the old Book Depository. My son is begging me to take him next time!

DC

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12/24/2015 4:29 PM

aroark247 wrote:

You're right I'm young. I understand what you're saying and actually agree with it. I may be young but I'm not dumb. Right ...more

I wasn't calling you dumb at all. You just haven't been around long enough to have seen where the sport was when it was at the top. Without that vision it's difficult to see what needs to get done to get back there. It really is an experience thing.

I wouldn't say KTM is taking advantage. They simply recognized a need in the market and filled it. Any other manufacturer is welcome to create a competing product and compete. Instead they choose not to and allow KTM to monopolize the segment.

KTM's msrp is $6799 for a 125. I wouldn't think that's astronomical. Putting in perspective, in the 90's/00's a 125 ran approximately $5600-5800. Fifteen years and $1,000 is probably less than the rate of inflation. $6799 seems like a bargain compared to the $8000+ msrp of four strokes. It's all relative!

Shane

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12/24/2015 4:31 PM

Dude ,most riders are not as CORE as you. Winning on a 450 when you were 14 is the most core thing ever and I am sure we have all heard of you because you must be a factory rider by now. Just think I am posting in a thread started by the next MC or RC !!!

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Ed Johnson

12/24/2015 4:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/24/2015 4:40 PM

lostboy819 wrote:

Dude ,most riders are not as CORE as you. Winning on a 450 when you were 14 is the most core thing ever and I am sure we have ...more

dude I own a porta potty... with your name on it

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12/24/2015 4:39 PM

KTMShane699 wrote:

I wasn't calling you dumb at all. You just haven't been around long enough to have seen where the sport was when it was at the ...more

I know what you meant. Wouldn't you think the Japanese brands would have re-upped their mini market's by now. Like you said though, I now see how these rules could open the possibilities and increase likeliness for that to happen.

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12/24/2015 4:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/24/2015 5:05 PM

I have mixed feelings about this. Number 1 thing no one thinks about is who are the people making these decisions? I think it should be pros/former pros who have actual knowledge about coming up through the sport as a teenager. Because they are really the only people who know what it's like to be able to ride such a fast bike at such a young age... Only they can judge how safe it really is.

Instead we have men in suits who either A: don't ride, or B: have never been close to being actually fast. Therefore neither of these people have the knowledge or insight to be making these type of decisions. Sure any outsider to the sport can say "OMFG How dangerous it must be for a small child to ride a powerful motorcycle SAVE THE CHILDREN" but until you have been in that position of having the capacity to ride a fast bike fast, you have no idea. Food for though...

It's this Nanny state we live in that wants to tell us what's best for us and not let responsible adults make their own decisions. If a dad knows that his son is capable of riding a 450 well, then that's his decision to make. We don't need control freak moralists/money grubbing government officials to tell us what bikes to ride, what foods to eat, what medicines to take, what activities to participate in, etc.

However I think the "KTM kickbacks" part or whatever conspiracy theory you're developing is a little far out. I think it's ridiculous.

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12/24/2015 5:39 PM

Once you are the age of 18 and are forced to pay State and Federal Income Tax you are able to do anything you want to make a living. Until then kids should be having fun being a kid. I disagree with the seriousness of loretta's. Just my opinion as a parent.

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MR. X wrote:

That one dog keeps winning ,I'm so bored watching the finals ,somebody , somewhere ,owes me something . They need to change the format ,that way the dog I want to win will have a chance against the much faster dogs.

12/24/2015 8:36 PM

I have mixed feelings about this. Number 1 thing no one thinks about is who are the people making these decisions? I think it should be pros/former pros who have actual knowledge about coming up through the sport as a teenager. Because they are really the only people who know what it's like to be able to ride such a fast bike at such a young age... Only they can judge how safe it really is.
The guys who made this decision are the guys on the motocross committee for AMA Congress. A few of the more notable members of the committee were Dick Bigelow (45 years in motocross with three sons, two who were outdoor national pros), Jeff Cernic (one of the guys who guided Travis Pastrana through his career), Sam Gammon and Kent Cameron (30+ years of motocross experience) and myself (started MX in 1971, ran Cobra Motorcycles race program for 4 year, guided my son to 12 LLs appearances, currently run SOBMX). There was also 100% buy in from all 5 of the major manufacturers including Suzuki's Pat Alexander who is one of the most experienced pro motocross guys in the industry.

Instead we have men in suits who either A: don't ride, or B: have never been close to being actually fast. Therefore neither of these people have the knowledge or insight to be making these type of decisions. Sure any outsider to the sport can say "OMFG How dangerous it must be for a small child to ride a powerful motorcycle SAVE THE CHILDREN" but until you have been in that position of having the capacity to ride a fast bike fast, you have no idea. Food for though...
First of all, non of us were in suits. Most of the guys were in jeans and t-shirts. Secondly, though there were some extremely fast former pros on the committee, that is certainly not a pre requisite for making decisions. I have never fired an M60 machine gun, but I don't need a special forces soldier to tell me it is probably not a good fit for a 14 year old.

The bottom line is the decision was not made for the 4 or 5 kids a year who may someday be professionals, it was made for the other 25,000+ AMA motocross racers.





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12/25/2015 3:10 AM

Whats wrong with growing up slow?

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Avoiding JS7 threads since 3/7/17.

12/25/2015 3:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/25/2015 3:59 AM

harescrambled wrote:

Thought the AMA makes the AM rules...and the AMA typically caters to the Japanese OEM's regarding rules. Exactly how is ...more

I'm wondering what Honda is going to do? No threat to take their ball & go home like they did in MotoGP?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103272

I love it... what a great Christmas present... Honda dropped the ball.. The 150f getting smoked in the supermini
(except for Cooper Webb), now they don't have a 125... LMAO...

Let Honda run that 150f motor in a full sized frame & lets see how many they sell...

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





12/25/2015 4:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/25/2015 4:14 AM

As a dad right in the middle of this age thing, I've raced while I was young then watching the sport for 30+ years I agree with what they have done.

Finally got my boy interested in racing just 3 years ago. Started on a 85, went to Supermini, 125, 250F...

Yes it happened fast but watching him progress through the process was enjoyable and informative...

IMO each step was crucial...

I saw several kids jump from 85's to 250fs. Did it work, for some yes. However I saw several that were pretty quick on 85's got on the 250f and never got better....

I'd make him practice on the 125 all week long, which he hated, and then he'd kill that supermini come raceday!

Rode the spring season on the 125 and won Schoolboy 1 overall... We switched to the 250f for the fall season. He did well on the bike but our yz250f had so many problems we raced most of the series on his 125 and finished 2nd in 250C!

I feel sure if I would have jumped the 125 stage he would have never learned some of the basic fundamentals I wanted him to learn... He has much better throttle control as a result....

He just turned 16 a few weeks ago, he is 5"10 175-180 geared up. So not a small kid, especially for MX...

He was riding my 450 at 15 and could have raced it. Ran several 450c events but choose to run his 250 in the class. He is still faster on the 250 than the 450. A kid that kind ride can ride any bike, not matter what size. There is a video of Cooper Webb riding one of our local tracks on his 150f. For the day is over he hopes on a 450F and absolutely killed it lol!!

Bottom line, unless you have the next pro in your house I don't see how the rule is bad news... Safety, seat time, and proper training is never a bad thing IMO which this should promote...

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12/25/2015 7:46 AM

Easier to sell a 125 instead of a 250f when the kid decides girls are more important at puberty. smile

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