MX Sports & Electric Motorcycles

TJMX947
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TJMX947
Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 6:11am
I'm surprised no one is talking about this yet. Apparently the Redshift MX & MXR aren't allowed to compete at Loretta's this year. I thought an open class was an open class?

https://mxsports.com/2018/03/28/competition-bulletin-2018-5-position-on…
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DavetheVintageGuy 3/29/2018 7:11am
3/29/2018 7:11am
Seems that in the "age" classes this wouldn't matter. Certainly shouldn't be an issue in the Vet classes where ability and endurance rule the day.

Unless the Japanese OEMs objected...CoolWhistlingBlink
Brad460
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Brad460 3/29/2018 7:14am
3/29/2018 7:14am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 7:15am
Change is frightening..progress is scary.

We wonder why the sport is not growing..this slow adoption of technology isn't helpful to our future.
731chopper
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731chopper 3/29/2018 7:15am
3/29/2018 7:15am
Seems like they learned from history. Give them time and they’ll create classes for them where appropriate.
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 3/29/2018 7:19am
3/29/2018 7:19am
It would be great to see them allowed to race. Surly there have been enough produced and sold to be allowed into the sport. They may not get the development they need if they are not allowed to race in the major MX and SX events. It is called progress!

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TJMX947
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TJMX947 3/29/2018 7:21am
3/29/2018 7:21am
DavetheVintageGuy wrote:
Seems that in the "age" classes this wouldn't matter. Certainly shouldn't be an issue in the Vet classes where ability and endurance rule the day. Unless...
Seems that in the "age" classes this wouldn't matter. Certainly shouldn't be an issue in the Vet classes where ability and endurance rule the day.

Unless the Japanese OEMs objected...CoolWhistlingBlink
I'm sure a lot of us are on the same page with this one.

It has a motor, wheels, no gears, and a twist throttle. It will do a "poppa-wheelie" if you pullback too hard. Seems pretty simple to understand. If you can race a CR500 in the Vet class surely an Electric MX bike has a place, right? Can't help but think this is overstepping a little bit and hurting the free market.
Markee
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Markee 3/29/2018 7:25am
3/29/2018 7:25am
"Together with the AMA and OEM’s, MX Sports will work to develop equipment rules and class structure so that these machines can be included in the program in the future where appropriate."

I'm sure Alta has a warm and fuzzy ready that...

One-Hander
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One-Hander 3/29/2018 7:28am
3/29/2018 7:28am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 7:28am
The conspiracy nut in me says MX Sports has less to do with making that ruling than the OEM's do.

Imagine a battery powered bike beating your mighty CRF450? And it doesn't even need to be shimmed at XX hours? I wouldn't stand for it and it might make me so unhappy I might even decide to remove my sponsorship monies.
DavetheVintageGuy 3/29/2018 7:31am
3/29/2018 7:31am
Markee wrote:
"Together with the AMA and OEM’s, MX Sports will work to develop equipment rules and class structure so that these machines can be included in the...
"Together with the AMA and OEM’s, MX Sports will work to develop equipment rules and class structure so that these machines can be included in the program in the future where appropriate."

I'm sure Alta has a warm and fuzzy ready that...

Follow the money trail...the AMA always has.Evil
Stretch67 3/29/2018 7:33am
3/29/2018 7:33am
Really dumb and short sighted IMO.

I understand the A and B classes but the Vet and open classes.


From Release:

"Until further information is known on the performance comparison between combustion and electric motorcycles, it would be pre-mature to allow these machines to compete at the national level."

You don't gain a further information by excluding. Let them race and then next year you can change something if need be.

To me this has the big OEM's putting a stop to it.

TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/29/2018 7:35am
3/29/2018 7:35am
One-Hander wrote:
The conspiracy nut in me says MX Sports has less to do with making that ruling than the OEM's do. Imagine a battery powered bike beating...
The conspiracy nut in me says MX Sports has less to do with making that ruling than the OEM's do.

Imagine a battery powered bike beating your mighty CRF450? And it doesn't even need to be shimmed at XX hours? I wouldn't stand for it and it might make me so unhappy I might even decide to remove my sponsorship monies.
Bingo!
TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/29/2018 7:40am
3/29/2018 7:40am
Markee wrote:
"Together with the AMA and OEM’s, MX Sports will work to develop equipment rules and class structure so that these machines can be included in the...
"Together with the AMA and OEM’s, MX Sports will work to develop equipment rules and class structure so that these machines can be included in the program in the future where appropriate."

I'm sure Alta has a warm and fuzzy ready that...

So Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, KTM, Yamaha, will all be deciding Alta's future as it pertains to professional racing.

Wow. Don't be so obvious MX Sports.
Zoom
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Zoom 3/29/2018 7:41am
3/29/2018 7:41am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 7:53am
The AMA ruling for E bikes is different than MX Sports. According to the AMA rule the Alta is legal for AMA amateur competition this year in any "non limited open cc class". So basically any Vet class and any 450 non Limited (modified) class. However, its up to each AMA promoter to accept the rule. Freestone accepted it for the James Stewart Spring Championship.

The foot is in the door. My guess is that after testing and more research, by 2019 MX Sports will include the AMA E bike rule into their supplemental rules.

I am also an AMA charter promoter and run the Main Event Series in Texas. We will be accepting the AMA ruling on E bikes this year.
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/29/2018 9:50am
3/29/2018 9:50am
Considering DC picked up an Alta a few days ago to scoot around on and get a feel for, I myself assume he is trying to get a solid feel for the bike as it is currently from a riders standing so a better informed decision can be made as to where it goes
DavetheVintageGuy 3/29/2018 9:54am
3/29/2018 9:54am
Alta just needs to make a "Mexican Investment", aka bribe, to the AMA and this can all be resolved quickly.

Or have Harley make a phone call.
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slowgti 3/29/2018 10:08am
3/29/2018 10:08am
I think MXsoorts is trying to avoid the 'YZ400F' problem again. I'm completely fine with them taking some time to figure it out.
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GuyB 3/29/2018 10:15am
3/29/2018 10:15am
It was interesting to see DC (@dcracerx) post a video of him on a loaner Alta at the Racer offices.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/29/2018 10:25am
3/29/2018 10:25am
Zoom wrote:
The AMA ruling for E bikes is different than MX Sports. According to the AMA rule the Alta is legal for AMA amateur competition this year...
The AMA ruling for E bikes is different than MX Sports. According to the AMA rule the Alta is legal for AMA amateur competition this year in any "non limited open cc class". So basically any Vet class and any 450 non Limited (modified) class. However, its up to each AMA promoter to accept the rule. Freestone accepted it for the James Stewart Spring Championship.

The foot is in the door. My guess is that after testing and more research, by 2019 MX Sports will include the AMA E bike rule into their supplemental rules.

I am also an AMA charter promoter and run the Main Event Series in Texas. We will be accepting the AMA ruling on E bikes this year.
MX Sports owns AMA Pro Racing which is the sanctioning body for the Outdoor series along with some other stuff. This is different than the AMA that sanctions the SX Series. That is AMA Supercross and is currently owned by FELD.
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mattyhamz2 3/29/2018 10:26am
3/29/2018 10:26am
slowgti wrote:
I think MXsoorts is trying to avoid the 'YZ400F' problem again. I'm completely fine with them taking some time to figure it out.
This.

I'm fine with it right now.

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731chopper
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731chopper 3/29/2018 10:28am
3/29/2018 10:28am
slowgti wrote:
I think MXsoorts is trying to avoid the 'YZ400F' problem again. I'm completely fine with them taking some time to figure it out.
I agree. They’re doing the right thing in my opinion but not mattter what they do, they’ll receive criticism. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
TJMX947
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TJMX947 3/29/2018 11:23am
3/29/2018 11:23am
I don't get what the big deal is. Put it on a frickin dyno and see where the HP lands. If its producing 75 HP in an easier to ride and manage package then yes we have a problem. If its producing 50 HP then who cares? The OEMs are free to build a bike that is easier to ride for the masses and makes for a more effective race weapon, so build it.

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Johnny Depp 3/29/2018 12:38pm
3/29/2018 12:38pm
731chopper wrote:
Seems like they learned from history. Give them time and they’ll create classes for them where appropriate.
Translation: They would smoke everyone
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Meister 3/29/2018 12:45pm
3/29/2018 12:45pm
I think it's BS. Vet classes should be allowed immediately. Understand the issue in displacement specific classes. No legit reason not to allow them in vet classes.
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Zaugg 3/29/2018 1:01pm
3/29/2018 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 1:02pm
So let me get this straight...you guys are pissed because AMA and MX Sports are doing their due dilgence to make sure electric bikes fit correctly into a class.

While I understand the lack of trust for the AMA and MX Sports at times, I can't understand why anyone would object to researching this futher to make sure the bikes are classed appropriately.

Oh wait, we're a shoot first...aim second society.



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Johnny Depp 3/29/2018 1:22pm
3/29/2018 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 1:25pm
Zaugg wrote:
So let me get this straight...you guys are pissed because AMA and MX Sports are doing their due dilgence to make sure electric bikes fit correctly...
So let me get this straight...you guys are pissed because AMA and MX Sports are doing their due dilgence to make sure electric bikes fit correctly into a class.

While I understand the lack of trust for the AMA and MX Sports at times, I can't understand why anyone would object to researching this futher to make sure the bikes are classed appropriately.

Oh wait, we're a shoot first...aim second society.



Are you familiar with the concept of "Open" class? A twin cylinder Aprilia could run, or a 701 Maico. Propulsion Discrimination I tell ya!

Just for fun, at the Torcs Scramble race at Zar's in San Antonio this Sunday, an Alta took the holeshot and finished 1st in the 50C class. Bummer they had him listed as a Yamaha. 1 hour 19 minutes to the finish line. Dale Blankenship on a borrowed TJ's Cycles Redshift EX bike out of Austin. You can Facebook it.

https://www.torcsracing.com/Results/results.php?Series_ID=28&Event_ID=9…
Zaugg
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Zaugg 3/29/2018 1:37pm
3/29/2018 1:37pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Are you familiar with the concept of "Open" class? A twin cylinder Aprilia could run, or a 701 Maico. Propulsion Discrimination I tell ya! Just for...
Are you familiar with the concept of "Open" class? A twin cylinder Aprilia could run, or a 701 Maico. Propulsion Discrimination I tell ya!

Just for fun, at the Torcs Scramble race at Zar's in San Antonio this Sunday, an Alta took the holeshot and finished 1st in the 50C class. Bummer they had him listed as a Yamaha. 1 hour 19 minutes to the finish line. Dale Blankenship on a borrowed TJ's Cycles Redshift EX bike out of Austin. You can Facebook it.

https://www.torcsracing.com/Results/results.php?Series_ID=28&Event_ID=9…
That's great and all but we're talking about a National Championship. Not some regional series where the rules are conjured up like the logic in this forum.

Bikes aren't allowed to run turbos or superchargers so it's not a true "open" class.

Your example proves the point. Is this guy normally a 50C Class winner on a normal bike or did the bike make his win possible? Did it provide and unfair advantage?

I can't believe you guys are so blinded by your mistrust for AMA and MX Sports that you're willing to throw common sense out the window.

I'm all for putting electric bikes in an open class or even a limited class if it fits, so why not take a year to do the research? Because you guys want to add the bike into the open class?

That's just bad logic. (Sorry, you'll never convince me to the contrary and I don't expect you guys to change your opinion either. Just pointing out the short-comings in your line of thinking.)

But hey, we're in a shoot first...aim second society right.

Brad460
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Brad460 3/29/2018 1:45pm
3/29/2018 1:45pm
Zaugg wrote:
That's great and all but we're talking about a National Championship. Not some regional series where the rules are conjured up like the logic in this...
That's great and all but we're talking about a National Championship. Not some regional series where the rules are conjured up like the logic in this forum.

Bikes aren't allowed to run turbos or superchargers so it's not a true "open" class.

Your example proves the point. Is this guy normally a 50C Class winner on a normal bike or did the bike make his win possible? Did it provide and unfair advantage?

I can't believe you guys are so blinded by your mistrust for AMA and MX Sports that you're willing to throw common sense out the window.

I'm all for putting electric bikes in an open class or even a limited class if it fits, so why not take a year to do the research? Because you guys want to add the bike into the open class?

That's just bad logic. (Sorry, you'll never convince me to the contrary and I don't expect you guys to change your opinion either. Just pointing out the short-comings in your line of thinking.)

But hey, we're in a shoot first...aim second society right.

IF it only takes a year to do the research, then I think ok, no problem.

Any longer and they are clearly stonewalling the future...the future which may very well be the technology that preserves/grows the sport.
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Johnny Depp 3/29/2018 2:00pm
3/29/2018 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 3/29/2018 2:01pm
I really don't get the protectionism of the status quo, when MX has always been about development. Disc brakes, water cooling, single shocks, the resurgence of 4 strokes all caused a monumental shift in the status quo. Nobody cried fowl back then, and lots of European manufacturers are gone because they couldn't keep up with the Japanese technology space race. Now the tables get turned and Alta builds an American Built race bike that they won't let race? Really embracing the future there?Unsure

DC will give us his usual blah blah. The Alta's began production in August of 2016 and Alta had a bike at the AMA headquarters sometime last year. Settle it on the race track.
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msp332 3/29/2018 2:15pm
3/29/2018 2:15pm
2009: All-electric 24-hr motocross race is held with Zero Motorcycles.
2011: Redshift is unveiled.
2016: Redshift in production, available to public. No homologation in 2016.
2018: MX Sports, “Electric motorcycles bring a new and unknown technology…”
No timeline given for allowing any electric-powered motorcycles to compete.
mxridr
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mxridr 3/29/2018 3:01pm
3/29/2018 3:01pm
that’s a load of BS imo. Alta should be allowed to compete.

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