MX Geoff's Past Prediction of KTM Dominance

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5/2/2021 9:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/2/2021 9:06 AM

Hate to give the clown his due, but seems Geoff was spot on with his prediction of future KTM dominance in US moto. Believe he made the prediction around the time they hired Dungey. Of course ol' Geoff deservedly sustained a proper beat down from the entire Vitard community, myself included. Winning 6 of the last 7 450 SX Championships, turns out ol' Giff wasn't too far off. Amazing how far the brands come in the last 8-10 years. Hard to deny their success at this point.

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5/2/2021 10:22 AM

Yah, he really went out on a limb predicting Roger improving their situation..blink
Hire the best manager, some of the best riders, the best trainer.

Just to be clear, not shitting on KTM, just the clown you are referencing.

Their 250 effort is still pretty week though.

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5/2/2021 10:28 AM

It feels like ktm has put double the money into their race effort (ktm, husk, GG) compared to all the other teams Combined...

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

5/2/2021 10:39 AM

Never heard of her .

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5/2/2021 11:38 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

Never heard of her .

Honest question, Who's Geoff and why is he not liked around these parts?

Is he the guy that makes up interviews/steals them and passes them off as his own?

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

5/2/2021 11:52 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

Never heard of her .

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Honest question, Who's Geoff and why is he not liked around these parts?

Is he the guy that makes up interviews/steals them ...more

Yeah he's done that . Lifted photos without giving credit too

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5/2/2021 12:01 PM

Well, while we are at it. The guy who said Justin Cooper would be a future champion was right too. I don't know if he is to be considered "the future of the sport", but he damn sure did win a championship.

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5/2/2021 12:32 PM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

Never heard of her .

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Honest question, Who's Geoff and why is he not liked around these parts?

Is he the guy that makes up interviews/steals them ...more

That’s mostly a mccread tactic.

Jiff is the FIM/Luongo’s version of Joseph Goebbels.......

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5/2/2021 12:32 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/2/2021 12:33 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Honest question, Who's Geoff and why is he not liked around these parts?

Is he the guy that makes up interviews/steals them ...more

Geoff is a Luongo shill. He'd come on here and stir the pot about MXGP vs. MX/SX then it'd turn into a shitfest.

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5/2/2021 12:44 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

That’s mostly a mccread tactic.

Jiff is the FIM/Luongo’s version of Joseph Goebbels.......

That's an interesting comparison, but I think I get what you mean.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

5/2/2021 12:46 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Honest question, Who's Geoff and why is he not liked around these parts?

Is he the guy that makes up interviews/steals them ...more

APLMAN99 wrote:

That’s mostly a mccread tactic.

Jiff is the FIM/Luongo’s version of Joseph Goebbels.......

-MAVERICK- wrote:

That's an interesting comparison, but I think I get what you mean.

Just a couple of regular Ministers of Propaganda......

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5/2/2021 1:15 PM

I think everyone who followed the gp's saw this coming.
I'm allways wondering why they can't figure out their 250 us effort.

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5/2/2021 1:17 PM

TbonesPop wrote:

Well, while we are at it. The guy who said Justin Cooper would be a future champion was right too. I don't know if he is to be ...more

I was just thinking about that dude yesterday, didn’t he make a shit load of bets and never pay up as well?

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Mantis Toboggan, M.D

5/2/2021 1:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/2/2021 1:52 PM

gt80rider wrote:

It feels like ktm has put double the money into their race effort (ktm, husk, GG) compared to all the other teams Combined... ...more

Other OEMs should take note: Even though KTM had previously been successful in several off-road disciplines, as soon as they started investing big and winning in MX, sales across all lines of their bikes, accessories, and overall brand value shot through the roof.

Consumers still do take winning in MX seriously, and that dirt-bike race cred will carry across an entire brand.

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5/2/2021 2:53 PM

KTM’s investment in racing, R&D, 2 strokes, etc...has paid dividends. Their dominance in Motocross and Off Road can’t be ignored. They definitely caught the Japs flat footed, imo. Even if you don’t like the KTM brand, you have to appreciate what they’ve done and continue to do for our sport.

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5/2/2021 3:57 PM

Since it is, and basically always has been, 90% rider 10% bike (or 80/20...whatever) KTM dominance just means they’ve had the best (most consistent) riders..not necessarily the best bike (even though their bikes are great).

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5/2/2021 6:09 PM

Titan1 wrote:

Since it is, and basically always has been, 90% rider 10% bike (or 80/20...whatever) KTM dominance just means they’ve had the ...more

They have so many Austrian riders / support riders in the 450 main - their bike has 5x the testing of any Jap band per night show track - so for an sx race - they are actually on the best bike.

Its also significantly lighter than the rest.

Nice job Stefan Pierer. Come a long way from pds and wood screws

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5/2/2021 6:53 PM

Titan1 wrote:

Since it is, and basically always has been, 90% rider 10% bike (or 80/20...whatever) KTM dominance just means they’ve had the ...more

motokiwi wrote:

They have so many Austrian riders / support riders in the 450 main - their bike has 5x the testing of any Jap band per night ...more

They still have both PDS and "wood screws"

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5/2/2021 9:59 PM

gt80rider wrote:

It feels like ktm has put double the money into their race effort (ktm, husk, GG) compared to all the other teams Combined... ...more

Dirty Points wrote:

Other OEMs should take note: Even though KTM had previously been successful in several off-road disciplines, as soon as they ...more

What KTM did is strategically plan. During a downturn, the theory is that you invest in your products and put out new models.

The Japanese did not and instead went into defense, and protected their bottom lines. This alone allowed KTM to close the performance gap with the Japanese, which they always trailed, and the have the most relevant products when we came out of the downturn.

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5/2/2021 10:51 PM

gt80rider wrote:

It feels like ktm has put double the money into their race effort (ktm, husk, GG) compared to all the other teams Combined... ...more

Dirty Points wrote:

Other OEMs should take note: Even though KTM had previously been successful in several off-road disciplines, as soon as they ...more

Ace Dudemeister wrote:

What KTM did is strategically plan. During a downturn, the theory is that you invest in your products and put out new models. ...more

I agree with that from an overall corporate guidance standpoint, but I am more talking specific marketing/product development targets.

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5/3/2021 1:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/3/2021 9:08 AM

RACERX69 wrote:

KTM’s investment in racing, R&D, 2 strokes, etc...has paid dividends. Their dominance in Motocross and Off Road can’t be ...more

100%. It's also very funny to hear industry insiders talking about how the people at the other brands are butthurt that almost 50% of the main event are basically factory level Austrian bikes. Lets take a look.

Suzuki gone at the top level. HEP Suzuki is far off a proper factory team. Still a good team but not factory, and the bike is not the best. Even if they would be ready to sign a top level SX rider (Anstie is top outdoors), it's gonna be difficult to attract a rider because of the bike.
Kawasaki has two guys and that's it. No satellite teams. But the contingency is class leading so they dominate the privateer market (but that doesn't help Tomac or AC).
Honda has MCR and Muc-Off Honda, so they're ok i guess. But only Brayton's bike comes even close to factory level and he is probably retiring soon.
Yamaha. Well at least they have three 450 riders. No support teams.

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5/3/2021 2:41 AM

Interesting is that KTM in MXGP built from bottom up. i mean they got factory KTM with Rattray, Searle, Goncalves, Simpson, Musquin, but also Champs KTM with Roelants, van Horebeek (if i'm not mistaken), KTM UK with Nicholls, Silver Action KTM and now they have Marchetti racing, JD Gunnex, Racestore by Bedini, etc. In MX1 they had Nagl and then the guys coming up from MX2 + Cairoli&Decarli switch helped i guess but a lot of the succes was built.

In AMA KTM was limping a lot with aquisition of Alessi, etc. until they got Roger but in 250 they still got TLD squad with shitty luck and amateurs turning to be not so great... KTM needs a better amateur program with inhouse factory 250 effort imho. So far they are running away with being able to buy talent in 450 but it might not work out in the future.

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the ultimate MX renegade from the east shore of the big cold pond

5/3/2021 5:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/3/2021 5:19 AM

gt80rider wrote:

It feels like ktm has put double the money into their race effort (ktm, husk, GG) compared to all the other teams Combined... ...more

Dirty Points wrote:

Other OEMs should take note: Even though KTM had previously been successful in several off-road disciplines, as soon as they ...more

Ace Dudemeister wrote:

What KTM did is strategically plan. During a downturn, the theory is that you invest in your products and put out new models. ...more

I agree with what you’re saying, but “performance” is probably the wrong term.
KTM’s have always been plenty fast. I had one back in the mid to late 80s, way before they were cool, or very good, but hell it could holeshot.
Even in the 90s and early 00s, they often had the highest hp figures. What they lacked though was an overall finish or finesse. They had quality components that didn’t gel together. Awkward ergo dynamics, suspect suspension and bits that broke often. How’d they fix that and become the industry leader in 10 years or so?
Self belief and a huge investment and commitment to back themselves. Someone on the KTM board had big balls and it paid off.

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5/3/2021 5:29 AM

Broken clocks are right twice a day. Geoff might have been right about that, but he's been so far off on so many other things that it's hard to give him much respect.

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5/3/2021 6:26 AM

CPR wrote:

I agree with what you’re saying, but “performance” is probably the wrong term.
KTM’s have always been plenty fast. I had one ...more

They hired Roger, and he watched those bikes carefully, and he noted that their structural rigidity was off (too much horizontal, not enough longitudinal, or vice-versa) for Supercross. So he had them build a prototype frame that could be adjusted (gusseted) as it was tested, including having multiple motor mount placement possibilities. Once they perfected that frame, they built that all-new, much better, much lighter, bike - and they immediately won the championship with it.

That pre-season, Dungey had a photograph of him taken standing next to the bike holding what looked like Happy Birthday balloons, as if to say, "Look at my amazing new present." Roczen wasn't allowed to ride the prototype because he'd adamantly told Roger he would never re-sign with them, and that, my friends, might have been the biggest mistake of Roczen's life. One can only wonder what might have been, had Rozcen decided to stay. Oh well.

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