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11/14/2020 7:06am
Just a thought, especially since EMTB’s mtb company’s like intense, canyon, specialised seem to be sponsoring/giving bikes to moto influencers/pros to have fun on and post about knowing full well we’re easy converts.
Do you think this could work the other way?
Do you think this could work the other way?
From the marketing perspective the conflict can be (IMO) that a moto guy can use and enjoy MTB but is rarely going to leave moto for MTB, even not decrease his interest in moto a little bit, so it's a good market to expand. But the other way around I believe that if a MTB guy goes into moto then they tend to lose interest progressively in MTB because moto... well, moto is moto.
The Shop
I will admit though, riding a MTB up hills sucks balls
Many hobby riders are working on their conditioning/fitness and any rider that does races will for sure work on conditioning/fitness. And with MX not being a sport you can do any day basically all riders will look at other sports for conditioning/fitness. Like running, the gym or cycling. MTB has quite some overlap and is something you can often do when you want it makes it a logical fit for MX riders.
I am no expert on MTB, but i would think that if a mtb-er wants to work on his conditioning it would be easier and probably better to simply go another day on the MTB then look into MX for conditiong. Can't ride mx anytime you want, it takes more time, it is costly etc. So to me from that perspective MX isnt interesting for an MTB enthousiast.
Obviously you can also target MTB-ers not for using mx as conditioning but simpy because they might enjoy riding mx. It seems a better match then targeting a basketball player or someone who swims. But i'm not sure that targeting someone who rides mtb (but not mx) significantly increases the odds of selling a mx bike.
I would probably prefer targeting people who watch motogp, F1 or visit races over targeting people who ride mtb. A bunch of my non-moto friends always visit the Dutch Masters (every year there is a race in our region), and i've asked them if they are targeted by moto (related) companies or the KNMV and they never are.
Reasons being.
1. Way cheaper
2. Relatively safe, at least safer than moto/offroad.
3. Way less time consuming.
4. Easier to have fun without being ultra fit because of E-bikes
5. Way more places to actually do the sport compared to moto/offroad
I have raced mountain bikes forever, worked in the industry off and on and even was a product tester for Vital's mountain bike site. To this day I still have many friends who work within the industry on the marketing side, engineering side and a straggling few who continue to race professionally (even though we're in or mid-late 30s).
I picked up my first moto in 2018 and am completely hooked. Prior to this I had 3 seasons of riding mountain sleds which actually helped more than you would imagine.
I think there are a few big caveats to the transition, and I'd say I'm an outlier based on a few things. That said, I also believe every mountain biker, especially on the gravity side, has immense amounts of respect for moto and secretly wishes that's what he/she did
I don't think the marketing would be lost on mountain bikers for a few reasons, but it'd have to be specific to riding they can relate to. My thoughts...
1) Transitioning to the moto track is going to take some real risk management. Jumping a moto is easier than a mountain bike, but its often far higher consequence. The moves you make in the air on a moto are very different. This is one area the translation between the two sports is not nearly as big as I would have thought.
2) Transitioning to trail riding/off road riding is far more reasonable. The problem here is access. I live in a state with tons of trails, so this is a no brainer. If this was common, I could see a number of mountain bikers moving over and never looking back.
3) Money. Its more expensive to keep a dirt bike running. Though I'd argue if you are balls deep into mountain biking, its really not that bad.
4) Wrenching. Its a different level of mechanical aptitude. One of the big problems I see in the sport is the lack of good wrenches if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself. I kid you not I've laid the groundwork to a technology based solution around this as I see it as a crux to growth (connecting garage mechanics and people that need work...dumb idea)
5) Time. This is the biggest one. This is the biggest reason I still log a ton of days on my mountain bike. I can go get a good ride in an hour (or sometimes less) on my mountain bike. Dirt biking is a bigger ordeal that requires more time. If you have kids, a family, a demanding career and stuff outside 2 wheels this is going to be the biggest reason people don't transition.
6) Most people hit a point in their life where they don't want to suck at something. You will suck at riding moto the first 10-15 rides (I mean, I'll always suck, but I mean you'll be like "wait, how do I use this rear brake?")
7) Crew. You need a good group of people to figure the sport out. I think this lack of connection is what holds most people back from trying it out.
8) Environment. Mountain bikers *can* be a pretentious bunch. Not always, but they can be. I remember racing the NAEC SIlver Mountain enduro (mtb) last year, then doing the Silver Mountain Hard Enduro (moto) the weekend after. The two groups of people could not have been different (for two wheeled enthusiasts). A subset of the mountain bikers were scoffing at the prospect of a moto riding what they were riding, and a few noting how bad it is for the environment. (don't worry, plenty of other people were like "woah that's rad"). There is a "redneck" perception that is somehow beneath some of the (more prickish) mountain bikers. You'd have to show the sport in a light that is cleanish. Or at least less Metal Mulisha, more Johnny Walker.
9) Transport. Tray racks work well, but a Subaru is still going to look pretty pretty funny dragging ass with that 300 on the back
Regardless, I think its friggin awesome, and I'm a better mountain bike rider now than I ever was (at 35). The problem is I don't get quiet the same "oh yeah I can't wait to do this" around my mountain bike as I do dirt bike
I've seen almost every one of my friends on the DH side transition, or at least add a moto at some point. Most have stuck with it, a handful give it up quickly. XC, Trail, everyday? Naw. The normal enthusiasts aren't about to sell their Subarus and figure out this sport. They are frankly overwhelmed by the complexity of mountain biking. Adding a motor would overwhelm in almost everyway.
EDIT: One area I've seen more growth than I ever would have thought - women riders. A number of women, at least around here, have moved over and left their mountain bike collecting dust. I've thought a lot about this, and in a trail situation I think there is an argument to be made a moto can feel safer. You can easily put your feet down (if its low enough) and keep going, you have a lot more traction and its a lot more forgiving when it comes to smashing into shit. This is something I find interesting, and something the market is totally missing to address (be it via influencers or via bikes - there is really only one bike aimed at this group)
I will say there’s nothing quite like the feeling of 4th gear pinned leaning way off the back of the bike up the face of a 75’ step up. You aren’t getting that in mtb which in some ways makes it feel safer day to day.
Regarding the original post...I personally know of many now MTBers that all come from an MX background...and most of them talk about MX when we are out riding!
As others have said:
(1) it is much easier to go for a MTB ride - it's cheap, time-friendly and accessible (for most)
(2) MX takes all day - even going practicing. Buying fuel, preparing the bike during the week, loading the van up, travelling, riding, waiting, riding, waiting, riding, washing the bike off, kit when you get home and do it all again for the next time. Most MTBers are not used to this, so it seems a lot of effort. However, once you get hooked, you're hooked! For me, all that effort is more than worth it to ride for an hour at the weekend!
(3) Who you know - MTBers likely know each other and have mates that do it whereas they probably don't know anyone at a race day in the MX world. I started with MX so for me when I go back to watch MX it's like coming home. Familiar faces everywhere and it's brilliant. I did a MTB race once and felt like an alien. I was alone, didn't know anyone and it sucked.
So for the most part I would say that no the marketing wouldn't work. A few people will of course come over, but you will get many more MX riders buying eBikes than the other way round!
Pit Row
From week to week, it's cheaper and easier to get your "fix" by hopping on the MTB. Every few weekends though, I like to go bust out the 250 at a track.
I know tons of guys that have transitioned from moto to MTB, but I only know 2 other guys that have gone the other way. Make that 3 if I count myself, but I started off in moto before I ever swung a leg over a mtb, and came back to moto after many many years.
I've also spent a lot of time on mtb forums over the last 20 years and I've seen a lot of mountain bikers express hate for all things moto. Usually the same guys spewing hate for Ebikes. In fairness, I've seen quite a bit of mtb hate spewed by vitards on these forums.
The gravity oriented segments of mtb (DH, freeride/park) are where you will find a lot more cross over between MTB and Moto. DH is a very small niche within the mtb community. At least in my state, the mtb community is huge, but DH racing is nearly non existent.
I would say with the increase in popularity of the enduro mtb discipline and ebikes in the last 5+ years or so, I think there may be more mtbers that would transition over to moto. I think ebikes will be the biggest bridge between mtb and moto worlds, and a competitive and reasonably priced electic moto would increase that even more.
On a similar note, it's pretty interesting reading the snobbery in the MTB world and then opening an article in Freehub or watching a film about MTB's beginning, realizing some of those dudes were basically Crusty Demons without engines. I got into mountain biking because there were trails I could hit after work and became pretty obsessed with it, still very much am. But like Jeff said above, "The normal enthusiasts aren't about to sell their Subarus and figure out this sport. They are frankly overwhelmed by the complexity of mountain biking. Adding a motor would overwhelm in almost everyway." It's a pretty strange dichotomy.
#longlivechainsaw
This fear of being being leveraged to something mechanical for your fun-having, especially when it takes you back into the middle of nowhere, is very obvious for most people. Its why they bring their mtn bike in for a "tune up" (whatever that is!) even if the bike is working perfectly fine.
Adding layers of complexity to this scares the bejesus out of people. Throw on top of that a lack of good mechanical education (apparently most people can't youtube shit) and lack of good mechanics in most areas and this is what is going to keep a lot of would-be moto riders moving over. Its not that they don't have the skill, or wouldn't absolutely love it, its that they don't have the wiring to *want* to struggle to understand something; its that the technology of "oh God another engine thing" terrifies them.
This comes down to the difference in demographics, with the mountain bike set often more white collar, more like John, and dirt bike set often more blue collar, more like Robert. I'll let you decide which group has more fun
Good luck growing the MTBer crossover market though. The snooty douche MTB factor is real, I think most of the converts have already embraced both.
As for E-mtb, just don’t. In 20 years, do you really want a bunch of pictures of you, acting all cool, while riding mopeds? Make a commitment, either pedal or moto, it can’t be both. IMO..
It’s like choosing a gender, there’s only two, lol! Either it’s a MTB or it’s a moto, it can’t be both! An E mtb is just a slow motorcycle..
It's as simple as that.
It should Not be easy to turn up and 'try out' the highest level of Supercross racing in the World.
If Kerr was / is at all serious about doing a US World Championships Supercross, he's going to have to Qualify for it, be it through the US system, or say, since he's a Brit, doing enough racing to get approval from the ACU.
Here's an idea for Bernard : get a racing license from one of the 'fly away' GPs National Race license controllers, and do a GP. I'm sure Luongo will take his money......... Maybe that might get him an 'in' to doing a US SX?
It was all about the 'clicks', for Bernard. He's fully committed to the 'YouTube' and self - and his sponsors - promotion (nothing really wrong with that, it's how you keep your sponsors - almost as much as your results count towards that) way of things
Even at my ancient age, I'm still deeply in the MTB (and Motorcycle) Industry , having raced at a few World Championships, won DH State and National series (in Vets and Masters), and am still going to some World Cups (not as a rider), still making frames and earning much of my living from freelance designing and consultation, for several companies. I appreciate just how good all qualifying DH World Cup level riders are, and how good Kerr is on a bicycle. But, he had no business thinking he could just turn up and ride a US SX.
As for cross overs between the sport - entirely logical, mainly for Motorcycle riders with the ease of actually getting out on a Bicycle. Bicycle to Motorcycle - yes, there is a (tiny) bit of that, but, for the largest part, as others here have said, there's a absolute sh*tload of animosity from MTBers, towards Motorcycles. In my area, they actively campaign against Motorcycles, while taking over the trails, and cutting in so, so many others. Though, the rabid Greenies are starting to catch on to that, so the MTBers are now coming into their sights.
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