Looks like the Chinese are getting serious!!!

colintrax
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colintrax 5/19/2019 4:15pm
5/19/2019 4:15pm
PTECH wrote:
I'm a member of said dual sport page as well and I don't get why these guys are pushing these bikes so hard. I would rather...
I'm a member of said dual sport page as well and I don't get why these guys are pushing these bikes so hard. I would rather spend $6K on a used Honda/KTM/Yamaha than one of these turds. Be interesting to see what the resale on these will be. The fact that it is a blatant rip off of a KTM chassis and Husqvarna plastics rubs me the wrong way. How is it legal for them to be sold in the US? Not too mention we already send enough money to China. They may be just fine bikes but you wont see me supporting them in any way.
Like Russia, China has a large army of spam bots to push Chinese propaganda, products, ect.
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Dirty Points 5/19/2019 4:16pm
5/19/2019 4:16pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 4:17pm
motogrady wrote:
:laugh: Vague styling notions. Take the emblems off and 95% of the non hd crowd wouldn't know the difference. They'd all say those are Harley's. Tell...
Laughing

Vague styling notions. Take the emblems off and 95% of the non hd crowd wouldn't know the difference.
They'd all say those are Harley's.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Vague, right, fail.
Dirty Points wrote:
Take the badge off any bike, and 95% of the crowd wouldn't know who made it.

Half the non-bike crowd calls every full-faired bike a "Ninja"
motogrady wrote:
And almost all when the see a twin think HD. Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style...

And almost all when the see a twin think HD.

Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style and mystique?
They are perfectly allowed to go after HD "mystique". Mystique isn't protected intellectual property. GTFO with that nonsense.
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motogrady
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motogrady 5/19/2019 4:18pm
5/19/2019 4:18pm
bdub wrote:
All the Japanese companies cloned bikes in there day. Took what worked then made it better, many stories of all the factories doing this.
motogrady wrote:
I'll give them their due. The Honda 6 in GP road racing. The 2 stroke triples. They have their originals. But they have imitated a ton...

I'll give them their due. The Honda 6 in GP road racing. The 2 stroke triples. They have their originals.

But they have imitated a ton also.

What HD doesnt get it, why they have to go out and buy a brand or spend gazillions to engineer everything is beyond me.
Dirty Points wrote:
LOL. Yes: Harley, the last bastion of true engineering in the industry.

Kind of thinking the electric thing right now.

Give the Rising Sun 5 years, I'm sure they have already bought a few LiveWires and are disassembling over there as we speak.
motogrady
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motogrady 5/19/2019 4:21pm
5/19/2019 4:21pm
Rooster wrote:
You take the American made Dunlops off of most Harley models and they no longer meet the criteria for being made in America based on percentage...
You take the American made Dunlops off of most Harley models and they no longer meet the criteria for being made in America based on percentage of parts. They're mostly cheap chinese junk parts.

I've been thru this with others on other sites, what, in this global world we live in, makes a Honda a Japanese bike?
A ton of their stuff is made in other places. Like all brands.

What makes a Hero a Hero?

Where it's designed, where corporate headquarters are, where profits go.

The Shop

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motogrady
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motogrady 5/19/2019 4:26pm
5/19/2019 4:26pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Take the badge off any bike, and 95% of the crowd wouldn't know who made it.

Half the non-bike crowd calls every full-faired bike a "Ninja"
motogrady wrote:
And almost all when the see a twin think HD. Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style...

And almost all when the see a twin think HD.

Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style and mystique?
Dirty Points wrote:
They are perfectly allowed to go after HD "mystique". Mystique isn't protected intellectual property. GTFO with that nonsense.

No. You GTFO.

Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a century. Tell me they are not vague ripoffs but very close to what most know are Harley's, or we just don't agree, and I'm done with you.
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Dirty Points 5/19/2019 4:28pm
5/19/2019 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 4:42pm
motogrady wrote:
And almost all when the see a twin think HD. Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style...

And almost all when the see a twin think HD.

Why would the Far East even consider a twin, if not to go after HD style and mystique?
Dirty Points wrote:
They are perfectly allowed to go after HD "mystique". Mystique isn't protected intellectual property. GTFO with that nonsense.
motogrady wrote:
No. You GTFO. Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a...

No. You GTFO.

Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a century. Tell me they are not vague ripoffs but very close to what most know are Harley's, or we just don't agree, and I'm done with you.
Yes, they look a lot like the bikes that Harley has been putting out for almost a century, which is perfectly fine. I mean, (as you say) mystique-wise and all that. But they are completely from-the-ground up original designs.

Harley can't own the rights to an entire aesthetic. Nobody can.

Kawasaki doesn't get to claim every sport bike as a copy, just because they made the GPZ.
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motogrady
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motogrady 5/19/2019 4:37pm
5/19/2019 4:37pm
Dirty Points wrote:
They are perfectly allowed to go after HD "mystique". Mystique isn't protected intellectual property. GTFO with that nonsense.
motogrady wrote:
No. You GTFO. Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a...

No. You GTFO.

Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a century. Tell me they are not vague ripoffs but very close to what most know are Harley's, or we just don't agree, and I'm done with you.
Dirty Points wrote:
Yes, they look a lot like the bikes that Harley has been putting out for almost a century, which is perfectly fine. I mean, (as you...
Yes, they look a lot like the bikes that Harley has been putting out for almost a century, which is perfectly fine. I mean, (as you say) mystique-wise and all that. But they are completely from-the-ground up original designs.

Harley can't own the rights to an entire aesthetic. Nobody can.

Kawasaki doesn't get to claim every sport bike as a copy, just because they made the GPZ.

Yeah. The Vtwin just came out last week..

That's what my beef is.

Why Harley doesn't just buy one each 450 that is out there, right now, change a few things and go for it I just don't know.
Dirty Points 5/19/2019 4:44pm
5/19/2019 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 4:49pm
motogrady wrote:
No. You GTFO. Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a...

No. You GTFO.

Admit, backtrack, say you were wrong, those 3 bikes look very much like the bikes Harley has been putting out, for almost a century. Tell me they are not vague ripoffs but very close to what most know are Harley's, or we just don't agree, and I'm done with you.
Dirty Points wrote:
Yes, they look a lot like the bikes that Harley has been putting out for almost a century, which is perfectly fine. I mean, (as you...
Yes, they look a lot like the bikes that Harley has been putting out for almost a century, which is perfectly fine. I mean, (as you say) mystique-wise and all that. But they are completely from-the-ground up original designs.

Harley can't own the rights to an entire aesthetic. Nobody can.

Kawasaki doesn't get to claim every sport bike as a copy, just because they made the GPZ.
motogrady wrote:
Yeah. The Vtwin just came out last week.. That's what my beef is. Why Harley doesn't just buy one each 450 that is out there, right...

Yeah. The Vtwin just came out last week..

That's what my beef is.

Why Harley doesn't just buy one each 450 that is out there, right now, change a few things and go for it I just don't know.
Yeah because a liquid-cooled, overhead cam, monoshock, shaft-drive, unit-constructed Shadow is just a few things changed from a Harley. Nonsense. It is a completely different bike in every meaningful way.

But I would certainly welcome Harley entering a 450 of their own design in the general style of Japanese mxers to the market.
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loftyair
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loftyair 5/19/2019 4:47pm
5/19/2019 4:47pm
I think Harley would do it, if you(and a whole bunch more) put up the 19k they would ask for their American-Chinese bike.
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PTECH
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PTECH 5/19/2019 5:01pm
5/19/2019 5:01pm
motogrady wrote:
Do u know street at all? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348580/s1200_71BD7F53_EAFF_4CB1_B5CA_E75CF8FD28CF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348578/s1200_5D9FBA75_CA63_4F23_92D7_7F7CB4165560.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348579/s1200_0DBFA4C6_D1DF_4708_AFCF_7B6517A86650.jpg[/img] A Honda Shadow, A VStar and a Vulcan. Tell me that isn't ripping off HD.


Do u know street at all?





A Honda Shadow, A VStar and a Vulcan.

Tell me that isn't ripping off HD.
Dirty Points wrote:
That isn't ripping off HD.

Unless HD thinks they own the rights to chrome, teardrop tanks, and fender flares.
motogrady wrote:

In my eyes it is. Big time,

So do you also think chevy is ripping off ford because they both make pick up trucks? From what I understand the frame on this “GPX” bike is a direct copy of a ktm. That’s completely different from two companies that make a similar product, like a cruiser style motorcycle, type of vehicle.
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Dirty Points 5/19/2019 5:03pm
5/19/2019 5:03pm
Dirty Points wrote:
That isn't ripping off HD.

Unless HD thinks they own the rights to chrome, teardrop tanks, and fender flares.
motogrady wrote:

In my eyes it is. Big time,

PTECH wrote:
So do you also think chevy is ripping off ford because they both make pick up trucks? From what I understand the frame on this “GPX”...
So do you also think chevy is ripping off ford because they both make pick up trucks? From what I understand the frame on this “GPX” bike is a direct copy of a ktm. That’s completely different from two companies that make a similar product, like a cruiser style motorcycle, type of vehicle.
And the engine on the GPX is a part-for-part Yamaha DT200.
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crowe176
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crowe176 5/19/2019 5:07pm
5/19/2019 5:07pm
Who did Harley rip off with their new millennial E-Harley
drt410
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drt410 5/19/2019 5:29pm
5/19/2019 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 5:30pm
Honestly the Chinese could be a savior to the sport. Dont be fooled by the made in China stigma, when they want to they can design some good stuff. They are after all the only country after the united states fielding a stealth fighter jet, Russia threw in the towel with the pak fa.

If they came out with some good bikes that were comparable to older 250f’s and had some 2 strokes at very low price points it would be great for moto for average riders as a stepping stone.
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bf884
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bf884 5/19/2019 5:32pm
5/19/2019 5:32pm
gsxr6 wrote:
The forks are probably better than stock ktm. Lol
crowe176 wrote:
Anyone with one of these Chinese bikes interested in swapping my 4CS for your “china junk”? I’ll add cash on my end
The bike comes with fast ace forks. Honestly a way better option than 4cs and aer.
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colintrax
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colintrax 5/19/2019 5:35pm
5/19/2019 5:35pm
drt410 wrote:
Honestly the Chinese could be a savior to the sport. Dont be fooled by the made in China stigma, when they want to they can design...
Honestly the Chinese could be a savior to the sport. Dont be fooled by the made in China stigma, when they want to they can design some good stuff. They are after all the only country after the united states fielding a stealth fighter jet, Russia threw in the towel with the pak fa.

If they came out with some good bikes that were comparable to older 250f’s and had some 2 strokes at very low price points it would be great for moto for average riders as a stepping stone.
That fighter jet is a copy of ours, likely made from stolen CAD drawings. Dont forget China has hacked the Pentagon who knows how many times, and has been installing spy devices in computers and in CAD software for years now.
Oh and their copy doesnt even compare to ours.
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kpiper
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kpiper 5/19/2019 5:40pm
5/19/2019 5:40pm
China steals and copies everything including our high tech and military applications.

I agree it is tough to do but we need to stop buying Chinese products. Not being political at all. Just pointing out reality.

When we buy Chinese products ALL we are doing is paying for China to build the strongest military in the world that one day we WILL have to fight. Let's pray we win that fight when it happens because it will happen.

I have also heard China charges a huge tariff on any motorcycles going into their country. Hope riders don't buy these bikes.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 5/19/2019 5:46pm
5/19/2019 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 5:50pm
I ride a $350 carbon mountain bike frame from China. Spending big money on a name brand frame of similar construction and quality wasn’t an option at the time. My Gary Fisher snapped and I needed to get back on the trail before summer had passed by. Almost all frames are made in the same factories in China anyway. The Chinese are very capable of building high quality stuff if the market is there for it.

Pit Row

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motogrady
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motogrady 5/19/2019 5:49pm
5/19/2019 5:49pm
kpiper wrote:
China steals and copies everything including our high tech and military applications. I agree it is tough to do but we need to stop buying Chinese...
China steals and copies everything including our high tech and military applications.

I agree it is tough to do but we need to stop buying Chinese products. Not being political at all. Just pointing out reality.

When we buy Chinese products ALL we are doing is paying for China to build the strongest military in the world that one day we WILL have to fight. Let's pray we win that fight when it happens because it will happen.

I have also heard China charges a huge tariff on any motorcycles going into their country. Hope riders don't buy these bikes.

It's not just the tariff thing.
Big issue now is if you have a company over there you must, must share your IP.
Outsiders can not own real eastate over there.
Outsiders can not own or buy Chinese's companies.

I forget the other stuff but there's more. It's mind boggling how lopsided it is.
The main thing is they can blast out crap for cheap.


I gotta bail, I only use Apple products, before I frisbee this iPad........
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FARANG
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FARANG 5/19/2019 5:51pm
5/19/2019 5:51pm
From what I have read these bikes are decent quality but I still don't agree with the ripping off of other companies designs. However, I'm not really down with the prices Yamaha charge for their YZ125/YZ250 either given that they haven't changed the design for almost 15 years.

It makes me wonder why don't the Japanese or Austrians just produce a simple, cheap 2 stroke for 5 grand. Not everyone needs the latest technology, just something fun and reliable, the performance equivalent of a late 90's RM, KX, YZ etc. If it needs to be 10lbs heavier to keep the price down then do it.
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KennyT
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KennyT 5/19/2019 6:02pm
5/19/2019 6:02pm
KennyT wrote:
If the Chinese paid me to own it I wouldn’t take it. I’ve never seen anything of any quality come out of that 3rd world shithole
zehn wrote:
“3rd world shithole”

You’re aware it’s not 1965 anymore right?
Let me load up a bowl and then I’ll check my calendar and get back to ya
KennyT
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KennyT 5/19/2019 6:10pm
5/19/2019 6:10pm
motogrady wrote:
What's the difference in this case? The Japanese were lost without HD. Sure, they paid the ransom, but without HD, they were clueless, Meat of the...

What's the difference in this case?

The Japanese were lost without HD.
Sure, they paid the ransom, but without HD, they were clueless,
Meat of the argument.

Fact is, later down the road they did do the gold wing for big and long haul, but, in the end went v twin and copied the look and style of HD. Without license. And sold a ton of em.

HD should do the same.
Dirty Points wrote:
There is not a single Japanese bike that copies the "look and style" of an HD, other than vague notions to engine configuration and fender shape...
There is not a single Japanese bike that copies the "look and style" of an HD, other than vague notions to engine configuration and fender shape.

The Chinese bikes are literal part-for-part recasts of other manufacturers' designs.
motogrady wrote:
Do u know street at all? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348580/s1200_71BD7F53_EAFF_4CB1_B5CA_E75CF8FD28CF.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348578/s1200_5D9FBA75_CA63_4F23_92D7_7F7CB4165560.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/19/348579/s1200_0DBFA4C6_D1DF_4708_AFCF_7B6517A86650.jpg[/img] A Honda Shadow, A VStar and a Vulcan. Tell me that isn't ripping off HD.


Do u know street at all?





A Honda Shadow, A VStar and a Vulcan.

Tell me that isn't ripping off HD.
All copies of HD and all of them most likely a better product then HD’s. Only problem is the resale. A 10 year old Japanese cruiser will be worth hundreds while a ten year old HD is still worth 5 figures. The Japanese cruiser will look like crap n 10 years while the HD is a timeless classic that always holds its value. (Just a guess, but that should get a few of you going)
JWRM
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JWRM 5/19/2019 6:10pm
5/19/2019 6:10pm
The Chinese manufacturers after reading Vital:
"From of the look of this so-called 'motocross', I should've stayed in Taiwan making smokeless ashtrays."
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KennyT
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KennyT 5/19/2019 6:12pm
5/19/2019 6:12pm
KennyT wrote:
If the Chinese paid me to own it I wouldn’t take it. I’ve never seen anything of any quality come out of that 3rd world shithole
kage173 wrote:
iPhones and every laptop are made in China. So are Nike shoes
Yes and they are all crap that need replaced every year or two
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oldschoolmxer 5/19/2019 6:20pm
5/19/2019 6:20pm
mikec265 wrote:
I can see $3500 for a noob who isn't going to ride it hard. Over $5000 for a slow heavy 250 is just stupid.
Isn't that crap the Japs are pushing on us?

You would be surprised that around 70% of all dirt products including gear is from China.
Bend over and get ready as we are going to get it hard .

ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 5/19/2019 6:20pm
5/19/2019 6:20pm
KennyT wrote:
If the Chinese paid me to own it I wouldn’t take it. I’ve never seen anything of any quality come out of that 3rd world shithole
kage173 wrote:
iPhones and every laptop are made in China. So are Nike shoes
KennyT wrote:
Yes and they are all crap that need replaced every year or two
I've been using the same $200 hp laptop for almost 10 years .
slowgti
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slowgti 5/19/2019 6:35pm
5/19/2019 6:35pm
If it gets kids and family's into riding, how can you argue against it? I think they could sell a ton of dual sports to college kids if the kids were already riders.
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OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 5/19/2019 6:45pm
5/19/2019 6:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2019 6:46pm
You forgot the part where they sold their products into foreign markets below their cost of production. Its how the US lost the flat panel LCD market.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 5/19/2019 6:45pm
5/19/2019 6:45pm
Haven't read all the replies, but I imagine that they are pretty close to what would have been said from around 65 to the early 70s when the Japanese manufacturers started buying and copying European bikes if message boards had existed then.....
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Dirty Points 5/19/2019 6:50pm
5/19/2019 6:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2019 1:57am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Haven't read all the replies, but I imagine that they are pretty close to what would have been said from around 65 to the early 70s...
Haven't read all the replies, but I imagine that they are pretty close to what would have been said from around 65 to the early 70s when the Japanese manufacturers started buying and copying European bikes if message boards had existed then.....
'65 to early '70s? You mean the time period when the Superhawk, R5, Samurai, X6 Hustler, XS, etc already existed in the market while all the European and American bikes were still running pushrods?
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