Looking for Ethanol FREE gas?

JoJmoto
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JoJmoto
Edited Date/Time 11/15/2013 4:18pm
I sat down and started looking for Ethanol free fuel and Race Fuel (at the pump) in our area. There have been several bikes in my area blowing up lately and I am fearful it 's the Ethanol fuel being brought to our area, Northeast Georgia.

I was able to find a couple sites that are for the entire Nation so everyone should be able to find fuel near them or on the way to a track. I created a thread on my site with the links to these places. Check it out...

http://southeastmx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=38906
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three9zero
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three9zero 11/13/2013 8:35pm
11/13/2013 8:35pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2013 8:35pm
Shell advance high test.
Bigoldbeef 11/13/2013 8:40pm
11/13/2013 8:40pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2013 8:54pm
While gasoline with 10% ethanol probably isn't the best for dirt bikes, I'm sure that it is not causing them to "blow up." Whistling

In Ohio, the only gasoline you can get without at least 10% ethanol is 100 octane race gas of some form or higher. The ethanol thing is a big scam anyways, just like everything else the government does.
davistld01
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davistld01 11/13/2013 8:47pm
11/13/2013 8:47pm
We got it here in Missouri. Casey's General Store 93-octane premium...ethanol-free!

The Shop

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FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/13/2013 9:49pm
11/13/2013 9:49pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2013 9:50pm
Cool.
I always find it down here at boat marinas.
ga_pike
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ga_pike 11/14/2013 5:10am
11/14/2013 5:10am
Back when it was all about 2 strokes (80's and 90's), lots of people ran avgas instead of traditional autogas. I'm not sure if avgas is suitable for the modern 4 stroke, but perhaps someone else could answer this. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be suitable.

In any case, if you have a small airport locally, you may want to look into avgas.

Avgas and autogas are formulated and rated differently. Where the octane rating of autogas is more of a "anti-knock" rating, avgas is an actual true octane rating. Basically, the 87 octane you buy at the pump is really closer to 82 "real" octane. Avgas also contains minimal amounts of lead for lubrication purpose and octane increase. Avgas is specially formulated to vaporize at lower temps meaning it will not cause vapor lock. It has other benefits as well.

Here is just one write up on the difference between autogas and avgas:

http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/articles/1Autogas%20vs%20Avgas.pdf


Also, as stated above, most fuel for watercraft is still ethanol free.
DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 11/14/2013 5:17am
11/14/2013 5:17am Edited Date/Time 11/14/2013 5:17am
Thanks ga_JoJmoto! Damn, I pass by a gas station every day that has Ethanol-free gas. Yea, FastEddy, its at the marina...
Jack_Wagon
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Jack_Wagon 11/14/2013 5:41am
11/14/2013 5:41am
It's almost like clock work. Every year about this time I see several 4 strokes blow up here in GA. I think it has more to do with the temp change than the gas. My theory is the cold air is making these bikes run lean. A lean bike runs hotter. Titanium doesn't hold up to heat.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 11/14/2013 5:45am
11/14/2013 5:45am
You can test fuel that a station says is alky free fairly easy.

I use a tall wide mouth mason jar,. Put about 10% of total volume water in bottom

Fill rest with gas,if it is 10% eth gas the water in jar will snatch the ethanol out of the mix and you see it raise level of water at the bottom of jar 10% of total gas you filled jar with

If any moisture get in you jug or tank it pulls alky out of solution and lowers octane of the gas that it left,

Which can burn piston in engines that have compression ratio that is on edge with high grade pump.

Gotta hate liberal tree hugger mfers that are to stupid to know alky gets about half the mpg of gas
resetjet
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resetjet 11/14/2013 6:07am
11/14/2013 6:07am
Avgas in HIGH in lead, not low, but lead is what gives it such a great and stable octane. The bottom plugs in airplanes usually get lead fouled and you have to pull out big balls of lead with a pick every 100 hours. I am a pilot but have never tried it in my bike, gonna have to get some. One of my 300's has such high compression, it pings on 93 pretty bad. Avgas has kind of a sweet smell, it is blue, and when you get it on your hands, it pretty much evaporates with no residue. Very low viscosity too, wonder if you would have to re-jet due to this?????

The cheap way to raise octane is to add ethanol. Ethanol is fine really unless it comes into contact with water, which is why it is no good in boats and can cause the problem stated above. It can also alter rubber. However, for bikes, I don't see the problem as everyone I know runs it with no problems. Just don't leave gas lying around and you will be fine. Now if you want max performance out of your bike, pump gas is not on the list ethanol or not. Gonna try the avgas

We really need an octane higher then 93 anyway. 93 is a little to low if you have done any kind of modification to your motor.
FGR01
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FGR01 11/14/2013 6:18am
11/14/2013 6:18am
The 2nd link you have posted in that thread for the Sunoco SS-100 race fuel, it says right in the technical specs that it is 9.5% Ethanol . I guess that's not a good option if you want ethanol free. Unsure
MXER231
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MXER231 11/14/2013 6:55am
11/14/2013 6:55am
I don't think ethanol fuel hurts your motor anymore than any unleaded pump gas. It will hurt your fuel system though but so does regular pump gas if you let it sit. I work in a shop that my dad owns and we have been open for 26 years so we have a little experience with this stuff. Most of the work we do now is fuel related. Gas at the pump is garbage! Ethanol fuel has a shelf life of about 2 weeks and non ethanol about 30 days. We preach to our customers to buy leaded race gas. We sell Sunoco 110 and have been using it for years and never had a problem. My dad has several vintage bikes and they sit sometimes for years without being started. We leave race gas in them and they never have a problem starting. Even better than that is how long your motor will last if you use race gas. I have had tons of 4 strokes since I started riding them in 05 and have only had 2 that blew up that weren't caused by bone head moves.(leaving the drain plug lose and getting hit by others and busting the cases) I currently have a 12 KX450 with well over 100 hours on it. We recently rebuilt it just to do so cause it was 2 years old and the valves and piston were in great condition and all the proper specs. Use a leaded race fuel, change your filter after every ride, and run a good synthetic oil and you will be amazed at how long your motor will last. I know some will disagree with this but I have proof that race gas is the best out there for your bike. I guess if you like rebuilding your bike every 20 hours go with the pump gas but I like to be able to have money to race and also know that my bike is dependable and will last through the weekend.
Tracktor
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Tracktor 11/14/2013 7:24am
11/14/2013 7:24am
Pure-gas.org will show ethanol free stations in your area....
zlowery
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zlowery 11/14/2013 8:24am
11/14/2013 8:24am
I am told that this blowup on an extremely low hour rm250 2-stroke is textbook for ethanol causing pinging... I don't know though, what do you guys think?

BobPA
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BobPA 11/14/2013 8:36am
11/14/2013 8:36am
resetjet wrote:
Avgas in HIGH in lead, not low, but lead is what gives it such a great and stable octane. The bottom plugs in airplanes usually get...
Avgas in HIGH in lead, not low, but lead is what gives it such a great and stable octane. The bottom plugs in airplanes usually get lead fouled and you have to pull out big balls of lead with a pick every 100 hours. I am a pilot but have never tried it in my bike, gonna have to get some. One of my 300's has such high compression, it pings on 93 pretty bad. Avgas has kind of a sweet smell, it is blue, and when you get it on your hands, it pretty much evaporates with no residue. Very low viscosity too, wonder if you would have to re-jet due to this?????

The cheap way to raise octane is to add ethanol. Ethanol is fine really unless it comes into contact with water, which is why it is no good in boats and can cause the problem stated above. It can also alter rubber. However, for bikes, I don't see the problem as everyone I know runs it with no problems. Just don't leave gas lying around and you will be fine. Now if you want max performance out of your bike, pump gas is not on the list ethanol or not. Gonna try the avgas

We really need an octane higher then 93 anyway. 93 is a little to low if you have done any kind of modification to your motor.
Avgas is high in lead content compared to pump gas (obviously unleaded), but it's lead content is low in comparison compared to say C12. That Avgas pumps near me say 100 low lead right on them.
FGR01
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FGR01 11/14/2013 8:45am
11/14/2013 8:45am
zlowery wrote:
I am told that this blowup on an extremely low hour rm250 2-stroke is textbook for ethanol causing pinging... I don't know though, what do you...
I am told that this blowup on an extremely low hour rm250 2-stroke is textbook for ethanol causing pinging... I don't know though, what do you guys think?

That to me looks like your piston snagged the powervalve.
rocketsocks26 11/14/2013 9:26am
11/14/2013 9:26am
I use vp t4 or u4 in my 13.5 ktm 450. I wont touch pump gas with ethonol.
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 11/14/2013 9:32am
11/14/2013 9:32am
Good points.. I would run race gas if I'm on the pipe all the time. But for moderate trail riding race gas is overkill. What I would be curious to ask is have you been watching or checking your plug color when you ride. Some people ignore this crucial step in determining how gas is burning in your bike. So many factors as you know can lead to this..

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lostboy819
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lostboy819 11/14/2013 10:18am
11/14/2013 10:18am
Jack_Wagon wrote:
It's almost like clock work. Every year about this time I see several 4 strokes blow up here in GA. I think it has more to...
It's almost like clock work. Every year about this time I see several 4 strokes blow up here in GA. I think it has more to do with the temp change than the gas. My theory is the cold air is making these bikes run lean. A lean bike runs hotter. Titanium doesn't hold up to heat.
lol, its not a theory, its a basic fact. Yes cold weather and air will make a bike run lean. Whistling
JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 11/14/2013 4:27pm
11/14/2013 4:27pm
Have you guys noticed the price of the Ethanol free is higher then High Test fuel, and its only 90 octane.
JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 11/14/2013 4:33pm
11/14/2013 4:33pm
FGR01 wrote:
The 2nd link you have posted in that thread for the Sunoco SS-100 race fuel, it says right in the technical specs that it is 9.5%...
The 2nd link you have posted in that thread for the Sunoco SS-100 race fuel, it says right in the technical specs that it is 9.5% Ethanol . I guess that's not a good option if you want ethanol free. Unsure
Yes, I was looking for "Race gas" at the pump when I found that link. I did not look for "Non-ethanol Race Gas".
JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 11/14/2013 4:51pm
11/14/2013 4:51pm
I run a 50/50 mix in our 2 strokes. VP110 and usually 93 octane. But I thought about getting the 90 octane ethanol free. However, now I have found stations with 93 ethanol free, when I can, I would get that.

If this thread has done anything, its confused me more..haha. We all know VP race fuel is better for your bikes but I was looking for fuel less expensive but something that wont hurt your engine.
resetjet
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resetjet 11/14/2013 5:58pm
11/14/2013 5:58pm
resetjet wrote:
Avgas in HIGH in lead, not low, but lead is what gives it such a great and stable octane. The bottom plugs in airplanes usually get...
Avgas in HIGH in lead, not low, but lead is what gives it such a great and stable octane. The bottom plugs in airplanes usually get lead fouled and you have to pull out big balls of lead with a pick every 100 hours. I am a pilot but have never tried it in my bike, gonna have to get some. One of my 300's has such high compression, it pings on 93 pretty bad. Avgas has kind of a sweet smell, it is blue, and when you get it on your hands, it pretty much evaporates with no residue. Very low viscosity too, wonder if you would have to re-jet due to this?????

The cheap way to raise octane is to add ethanol. Ethanol is fine really unless it comes into contact with water, which is why it is no good in boats and can cause the problem stated above. It can also alter rubber. However, for bikes, I don't see the problem as everyone I know runs it with no problems. Just don't leave gas lying around and you will be fine. Now if you want max performance out of your bike, pump gas is not on the list ethanol or not. Gonna try the avgas

We really need an octane higher then 93 anyway. 93 is a little to low if you have done any kind of modification to your motor.
BobPA wrote:
Avgas is high in lead content compared to pump gas (obviously unleaded), but it's lead content is low in comparison compared to say C12. That Avgas...
Avgas is high in lead content compared to pump gas (obviously unleaded), but it's lead content is low in comparison compared to say C12. That Avgas pumps near me say 100 low lead right on them.
Very high in lead, compared to regular car gas(which you now can't get). The reason it says low lead on the avgas truck or pump is that the original airplane gas was 100/130 which was red and loaded with lead. The replaced that with the 100LL which has less lead then the original, but still got tons in it and that is a good thing for us. Just highly illegal to burn in anything other then an airplane. In college I worked at the airport pumping gas, we were told not to sell it to just anyone, they had to have an aviation reason. Of course they all came with race fuel containers and said they were putting it in the kit plane........


As far as that piston blowing up as a result of pinging, I don't buy it. Looks to me like a lean condition. The piston is a bit melted right at the exhaust port. He is too lean, probably ran it wide open or doing wheelies or something and it seized.

I have a worked 2 stroke and it pings like crazy on 93. But it really doesn't hurt anything as I have normal time between rebuilds. I just deal with it. I might try the avgas. Now if it were to the point of causing failure, I don't think I could ride it, would sound like there is a handful or marbles in the engine.......
JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 11/14/2013 6:25pm
11/14/2013 6:25pm
I know one kid around here whose bike blew twice due to spark knocking because of the fuel. Twice in one month! The second time it got the cylinder...

I have a friend who is a pilot and he runs avgas in his 4 stroke. He has a 250f with the 290 kit. It hasn't seemed to bother it, but I would like to know if any Pro teams have experimented with it and what their finding are..
Psc19933
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Psc19933 11/14/2013 6:35pm
11/14/2013 6:35pm
Av gas is higher in lead than any leaded pump gas ever was. Also av gas is NOT illegal to burn in anything that is not driven on the road. This has to do with highway tax, not the lead content. If you have a pre emissions car, and you could find a source of highway taxed leaded fuel you very much could use it on the road legally.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 11/14/2013 6:55pm
11/14/2013 6:55pm
zlowery wrote:
I am told that this blowup on an extremely low hour rm250 2-stroke is textbook for ethanol causing pinging... I don't know though, what do you...
I am told that this blowup on an extremely low hour rm250 2-stroke is textbook for ethanol causing pinging... I don't know though, what do you guys think?

A piston killed by ping or pre ignition looks a lot different,like a blowtorch has hit it

Sure you dont have a crank failing and a roller bearing came thru the transfer port?
TheCRKid
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TheCRKid 11/14/2013 6:58pm
11/14/2013 6:58pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
It's almost like clock work. Every year about this time I see several 4 strokes blow up here in GA. I think it has more to...
It's almost like clock work. Every year about this time I see several 4 strokes blow up here in GA. I think it has more to do with the temp change than the gas. My theory is the cold air is making these bikes run lean. A lean bike runs hotter. Titanium doesn't hold up to heat.
Your on the right track
cool weather condenses the air and lets more oxygen into the mixture and you run lean , running lean is very bad and can cause engine damage
Bigoldbeef 11/15/2013 7:18am
11/15/2013 7:18am
resetjet wrote:
Looks like avgas is not a good fuel for bikes......blended for airplanes and a whole different animal.

A couple good reads......

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/canirunavgas.php

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=97064
I ran strictly LL100 in my husky for the first 18 hours, it would run fine, but the bike would NOT idle for more than 2-3 seconds before dying.

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