Local Racing Classes by Qualifying Times?

Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 12:04pm
6/20/2018 12:04pm
Billy how do you feel about 3 - 20’s attracting practice riders? Triple Crown?
Good input is never assinine. I don’t just want the low hanging fruit ?. If we are going to figure out a solution, everyone needs to have a seat at the table.
Not all tracks could adapt the same format, there is flexibility in this system.

Knowing what the goals are, what would you suggest?
Solidkm
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Solidkm 6/20/2018 12:18pm
6/20/2018 12:18pm
Johnny the question was not posed to me, but I’ll try and help. From the dudes I’ve known from the years. It sounds like pride and ambition are the issue. And you’re not going to fix that across the board. However, a true beginner class may help with the first timers getting involved. Like maybe once a quarter. Or once a month. Or something relatively low, to have a true beginner race/ class. Maybe open to dudes who this is their first year Racing or riding or However you want to break it up. But having a beginners night or something could help get the ball rolling. Also, to piggy back on previous comments. I personally don’t race MX anymore. Pretty much ride mx whenever I can yet race offroad. In my head, right or wrong, that’s safer. And being older, w responsibility, that’s an easier pill to swallow. Point is, maybe some events that aren’t so “jumpy”, something like a modified GP, grass track, woods race, j-day style course. Where you don’t have to be killer mx rider to enter. I’ve seen some tracks that have a D class. And this class is not permitted to jump any jumps. Something like this may attract the professional practice hero to actually enter an event.
BobPA
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BobPA 6/20/2018 12:22pm
6/20/2018 12:22pm
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We enter the same class so we can bang bars. Some people are good “qualifiers”, others are good “racers”..
ga_pike
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ga_pike 6/20/2018 12:42pm
6/20/2018 12:42pm
Simple fix, don't have competition level classes. Have displacement based, age based, and an open pro only.

Give each class 2, 20 minute motos and a 15 minute practice session. Combine the vet and mini classes into 1 group unless they have too many. Basically, unless you get more than 40 guys, you combine them to achieve a full gate and more track time.

This would work at the local level and provide more track time for everyone. I've always felt that slower riders get better by racing with faster guys... If you want to win that $3 trophy, you have to get better. Why brag about being the best 2nd or 3rd tier class racer??

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 1:22pm
6/20/2018 1:22pm
Solidkm wrote:
Johnny the question was not posed to me, but I’ll try and help. From the dudes I’ve known from the years. It sounds like pride and...
Johnny the question was not posed to me, but I’ll try and help. From the dudes I’ve known from the years. It sounds like pride and ambition are the issue. And you’re not going to fix that across the board. However, a true beginner class may help with the first timers getting involved. Like maybe once a quarter. Or once a month. Or something relatively low, to have a true beginner race/ class. Maybe open to dudes who this is their first year Racing or riding or However you want to break it up. But having a beginners night or something could help get the ball rolling. Also, to piggy back on previous comments. I personally don’t race MX anymore. Pretty much ride mx whenever I can yet race offroad. In my head, right or wrong, that’s safer. And being older, w responsibility, that’s an easier pill to swallow. Point is, maybe some events that aren’t so “jumpy”, something like a modified GP, grass track, woods race, j-day style course. Where you don’t have to be killer mx rider to enter. I’ve seen some tracks that have a D class. And this class is not permitted to jump any jumps. Something like this may attract the professional practice hero to actually enter an event.
IMO having lap time based ride groups will provide a "beginner" class every time. We can never know a persons riding resume, but we can measure their ability on a given track on a given day.

I'm totally with you on the jumpy issue, I'm a big sissy that takes forever to build up to jumping, if ever. I have no problem 2/3 and 3/4 jumping myself, and that is faster than going around them on the water truck track. I see no reason not to allow riders to go around if they want to. It's just not practical to expect track owners to tear down their jump faces for a one off event, or for everyone to want to ride on a Vet track who can do the 100 ft. jumps. I absolutely expect that series should develop for more than straight MX, such as you mentioned. I even think offering a variety at the end of the day, such as MX then combined MX/Scramble or MX/GP/SXS course would be the bomb, and those that don't want to enter MX could just sign up for the "hooligan" event. The same could work in reverse, a Scramble or GP event could finish with a MX race. The object is to stop treating the 2 (or more) types of dirt bike rider's as different species or "races" pun intended. We need to develop more inclusive type of events and increase turnouts. We are trying to suck more entries into MX style racing, and heaven forbid that includes 4 wheeler's. When track owner's can't pay the bills, you have to look at your options. The J-Day events are the best current example I could propose, but I think even their system could stand a few tweaks.
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 1:25pm
6/20/2018 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2018 1:33pm
BobPA wrote:
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We...
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We enter the same class so we can bang bars. Some people are good “qualifiers”, others are good “racers”..
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the same minute even if they are not the same speed, there is some great camaraderie involved. I see no reason not to allow self bumps up, even though you may be riding around in the back of the pack? As you mentioned, I kinda suck at full blast speed, but I can outlast most riders and eventually pass them, it just takes time.
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 1:30pm
6/20/2018 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2018 1:34pm
ga_pike wrote:
Simple fix, don't have competition level classes. Have displacement based, age based, and an open pro only. Give each class 2, 20 minute motos and a...
Simple fix, don't have competition level classes. Have displacement based, age based, and an open pro only.

Give each class 2, 20 minute motos and a 15 minute practice session. Combine the vet and mini classes into 1 group unless they have too many. Basically, unless you get more than 40 guys, you combine them to achieve a full gate and more track time.

This would work at the local level and provide more track time for everyone. I've always felt that slower riders get better by racing with faster guys... If you want to win that $3 trophy, you have to get better. Why brag about being the best 2nd or 3rd tier class racer??
I assume you just jumped in and didn't read the previous pages, and I can't blame you. Let me catch you up:

The prime objective is time, as well as even level competition. (I realize you only proposed 3 types of classes). There are so many displacements and age groups that doing that alone destroys your time budget if you want to give everyone ample seat time. Most organizers would be happy to make an exclusive class for any 40 riders, the problem being that most don't pull anywhere near enough entries to do so, and that is where this "qualifying into ride groups" comes from.

The devil is in the details.
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BobPA 6/20/2018 1:47pm
6/20/2018 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2018 1:52pm
BobPA wrote:
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We...
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We enter the same class so we can bang bars. Some people are good “qualifiers”, others are good “racers”..
Johnny Depp wrote:
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the...
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the same minute even if they are not the same speed, there is some great camaraderie involved. I see no reason not to allow self bumps up, even though you may be riding around in the back of the pack? As you mentioned, I kinda suck at full blast speed, but I can outlast most riders and eventually pass them, it just takes time.
The more I think about it, the more this could work. It will just be a pain in the ass the first race or two to solve all of the little unforeseen questions and/or rules needed. A track around me used to run a regular day of racing. Then at the end of the day they would run a half hour GP. A and B would be on track at the same time, with C class having their own separate race...It was an additional $10 or something, and they had some cool prizes for the top finishers. No one seems to do cool stuff like that anymore.

Edit: Funny I googled "Santich Cycle GP Hurricane Hills" and this article popped up from 2006. I remember getting 3rd in 125B and I believe a 2nd in the GP....being soundly beaten by one of my friends on a 125 haha.

Sadly the event sponsor, Dave Santich, passed away a few years ago. he sponsored the event for many years.

http://www.hhmotocross.com/sanderson/sand_2006_07_23.html
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 1:55pm
6/20/2018 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2018 2:01pm
BobPA wrote:
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We...
Will you allow people to bump up in class? The select races I compete in every year is usually with a group of my friends. We enter the same class so we can bang bars. Some people are good “qualifiers”, others are good “racers”..
Johnny Depp wrote:
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the...
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the same minute even if they are not the same speed, there is some great camaraderie involved. I see no reason not to allow self bumps up, even though you may be riding around in the back of the pack? As you mentioned, I kinda suck at full blast speed, but I can outlast most riders and eventually pass them, it just takes time.
BobPA wrote:
The more I think about it, the more this could work. It will just be a pain in the ass the first race or two to...
The more I think about it, the more this could work. It will just be a pain in the ass the first race or two to solve all of the little unforeseen questions and/or rules needed. A track around me used to run a regular day of racing. Then at the end of the day they would run a half hour GP. A and B would be on track at the same time, with C class having their own separate race...It was an additional $10 or something, and they had some cool prizes for the top finishers. No one seems to do cool stuff like that anymore.

Edit: Funny I googled "Santich Cycle GP Hurricane Hills" and this article popped up from 2006. I remember getting 3rd in 125B and I believe a 2nd in the GP....being soundly beaten by one of my friends on a 125 haha.

Sadly the event sponsor, Dave Santich, passed away a few years ago. he sponsored the event for many years.

http://www.hhmotocross.com/sanderson/sand_2006_07_23.html
Check out this twist.. Take a MX course, and add in "extreme shortcuts" like a rock garden, loose logs, telephone pole matrix sections, maybe an old car or 3, endurocross type stuff. It would be optional, stay on the main track for no risk, or take the "shortcut" that might put you off the bike, or well executed might make a pass or save time. Spectators would eat it up, and of course you would build them in plain view. Off road rider's would likely give you their wallets to be able to beat MX guys on a course like that Woohoo

Now would you be onboard?

Thanks for the link, that GP course looks like a real GP track from Europe. Are you in the photos?
BobPA
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BobPA 6/20/2018 2:14pm
6/20/2018 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2018 2:18pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the...
That is an interesting question that I never thought of, thanks. I know in Enduro's it's common for friend's to sign up to ride on the same minute even if they are not the same speed, there is some great camaraderie involved. I see no reason not to allow self bumps up, even though you may be riding around in the back of the pack? As you mentioned, I kinda suck at full blast speed, but I can outlast most riders and eventually pass them, it just takes time.
BobPA wrote:
The more I think about it, the more this could work. It will just be a pain in the ass the first race or two to...
The more I think about it, the more this could work. It will just be a pain in the ass the first race or two to solve all of the little unforeseen questions and/or rules needed. A track around me used to run a regular day of racing. Then at the end of the day they would run a half hour GP. A and B would be on track at the same time, with C class having their own separate race...It was an additional $10 or something, and they had some cool prizes for the top finishers. No one seems to do cool stuff like that anymore.

Edit: Funny I googled "Santich Cycle GP Hurricane Hills" and this article popped up from 2006. I remember getting 3rd in 125B and I believe a 2nd in the GP....being soundly beaten by one of my friends on a 125 haha.

Sadly the event sponsor, Dave Santich, passed away a few years ago. he sponsored the event for many years.

http://www.hhmotocross.com/sanderson/sand_2006_07_23.html
Johnny Depp wrote:
Check out this twist.. Take a MX course, and add in "extreme shortcuts" like a rock garden, loose logs, telephone pole matrix sections, maybe an old...
Check out this twist.. Take a MX course, and add in "extreme shortcuts" like a rock garden, loose logs, telephone pole matrix sections, maybe an old car or 3, endurocross type stuff. It would be optional, stay on the main track for no risk, or take the "shortcut" that might put you off the bike, or well executed might make a pass or save time. Spectators would eat it up, and of course you would build them in plain view. Off road rider's would likely give you their wallets to be able to beat MX guys on a course like that Woohoo

Now would you be onboard?

Thanks for the link, that GP course looks like a real GP track from Europe. Are you in the photos?
That would be cool, I ride on the track and the woods a good equal mix.....

I am not in any of the photos, just the results. Would have been on a Kawi #454

Edit: Here is the same race from 2005. I remember this year I raced my 250f in 125B. Then in the GP I ran my dads 250 two stroke for some reason...and remember sucking serious amounts of wind by the time the white flag rolled out haha.

https://issuu.com/mrapubs/docs/mra_july_2005/16

The whole race was such a cool format...hopefully a promoter brings it back.
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/20/2018 2:23pm
6/20/2018 2:23pm
JLaw pro debut on the cover, now that is cool.

I don't know about your part of the world, maybe someone will be motivated by this thread, but I fully intend to put something together with the help of others in the Austin area for starters.

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