Litpro vs crossbox

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6/17/2018 10:51 AM

Hi, anybody using any of these?

I know Baker is using litpro and its more expensive than the crossbox and maybe some more features but Im not that sure.

Thankful for inputs, regards

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6/17/2018 11:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/19/2018 10:26 AM

I haven't used crossbox, but have had the Litpro since 2015. I think it is bullet proof way to get faster, I love it!

The app makes it super easy to find the fastest lines around the corners and also places where you can gain the most time. Most of the time I feel like I'm going super fast on outside line, but then found out from the data that going slower on tight inside was 0,2 - 0,4 seconds faster. The "Gatedrop" feature is great tool to get those starts dialled in.

The latest update on the software allows to use the LIVE feature (you can hear the segment and lap times through bluetooth ear buds while riding) with Apple Watch (so no need to attach the phone to the bike). Using it I was able to drop my lap times at Pala 16 seconds in five weeks when preparing for Loretta Lynn regional qualifier (of course track prep has something to do with it, but the layout and jumps were the same).

I'm surprised that not every aspiring racer is using it.
Photo

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6/17/2018 12:26 PM

While I’ve never used a CrossBox, my vote goes to LITPro.

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6/17/2018 1:29 PM

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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6/17/2018 3:45 PM

Iv used LITPRO, since it was first available great product.

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@TONY351KTM

6/17/2018 7:19 PM

LITPro

Amazing software and connectivity

Period

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

6/17/2018 8:12 PM

I just started using Litpro this weekend at Mammoth and it helped me pick the best lines. Easily shaved 2-3 seconds per lap off my time because of it.

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6/17/2018 8:21 PM

Kzirk525 wrote:

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Does it record on device and you download later?

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6/17/2018 9:30 PM

Kzirk525 wrote:

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

racingfortheson wrote:

Does it record on device and you download later?

Pretty much. Just start the device, do your moto, come back and sync the data into the app. I've been happy with it so far.

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6/17/2018 11:20 PM

I will be looking into that for sure

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6/18/2018 12:29 AM

Can you pair it with a phone?

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6/18/2018 5:50 AM

I just ordered XGPS160. I'll do a review asap.

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6/18/2018 5:56 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

I just ordered XGPS160. I'll do a review asap.

If it proves worthy replacement for the litpro/crossbox, I'll be buying one as well smile

If you open a new thread, please post a link in this thread so that we don't miss it.

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6/18/2018 6:06 AM

Iv looked into these a few times and would really like to give them a try. One thing i cant get over though is if you look at the specs, it says position is +/- 2.5m That is roughly 16 ft of variance so how could this accurately tell me which line choice is best when most tracks are only 20ish ft wide. Litpro is the same and i couldnt help but cringe when in a couple of the supercrosses this year they showed the litpro data and there was a line that looked like it cut a corner on the track.

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2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

6/18/2018 7:22 AM

Kzirk525 wrote:

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

racingfortheson wrote:

Does it record on device and you download later?

Kzirk525 wrote:

Pretty much. Just start the device, do your moto, come back and sync the data into the app. I've been happy with it so far.

Like you say its the same as crossbox just cheaper. Too bad its not avalible for android

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6/18/2018 8:07 AM

There's a new mobile app called LapKing started by two guys here in North Texas. It uses your actual phone (in a case) but has really cool built in features on the App. It's more of a social platform, where you can race friends or see who has the fastest lap that day.

It's definitely the cheapest option. Not sure why they haven't done any media promotion yet, but they've been doing a grass roots tour here in the South

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6/18/2018 11:07 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

Does it record on device and you download later?

Kzirk525 wrote:

Pretty much. Just start the device, do your moto, come back and sync the data into the app. I've been happy with it so far.

Tedor wrote:

Like you say its the same as crossbox just cheaper. Too bad its not avalible for android

The GPS unit is the same. The app you use is different. It works with a bunch of different lap time apps. Just do a quick search and you'll find something to use.

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6/18/2018 11:09 AM

fpandjic wrote:

Can you pair it with a phone?

Ya, it connects with Bluetooth.

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6/18/2018 11:48 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

I just ordered XGPS160. I'll do a review asap.

Right on! Make sure you download the Dual GPS app and update the firmware when you get it. I didn't at first and it got to the point where it didn't work with the newest version of the MX Buddy app.

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6/18/2018 12:08 PM

You guys missed the LITPro posted in the Bazaar section last week.

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6/18/2018 6:40 PM

racingfortheson wrote:

Does it record on device and you download later?

Kzirk525 wrote:

Pretty much. Just start the device, do your moto, come back and sync the data into the app. I've been happy with it so far.

Tedor wrote:

Like you say its the same as crossbox just cheaper. Too bad its not avalible for android

Looks like crossbox app is free in app store.

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6/18/2018 6:41 PM

racingfortheson wrote:

I just ordered XGPS160. I'll do a review asap.

Kzirk525 wrote:

Right on! Make sure you download the Dual GPS app and update the firmware when you get it. I didn't at first and it got to the point where it didn't work with the newest version of the MX Buddy app.

Thanks, I will.

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6/18/2018 7:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/18/2018 8:03 PM

I haven't noticed that such a big variable with Litpro. The base photo on normal tracks can be old and it is just as a base layer. I'm only interested how the lines are compared to each other and which one is the fastest. In that sense the lines seem to be really accurate and as stated earlier I have been able to cut over 10 seconds per lap by using the Litpro and choosing the fastest lines around the track. One difference between Litpro and the rest is that Litpro GPS antenna is huge and therefore much more accurate. Hopefully someone from Litpro would comment on this.
Photo

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6/19/2018 8:08 AM

Kzirk525 wrote:

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Does it have the ability to monitor heart rate as well?

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6/19/2018 8:46 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

Looks like crossbox app is free in app store.

Yes, but if I remember correctly, you can't use it unless you enter the code that you get with the device, which acts as a subscription code.

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6/19/2018 8:50 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/21/2018 5:19 AM

Kzirk525 wrote:

I use the XGPS160 with the app called MX buddy. Its way cheaper and has similar features to Crossbox. Probably not as good as Litpro.The XGPS160 is the same gps unit Crossbox uses. I mount it to my helmet with a 3M dual lock fastener. Heres the link to both-

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E65TNYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKTDMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You can get those dongles for $135 on Ebay. Not bad at all... Although there was 1 for $35 yesterday, I think the seller made a mistake when listing one at $35 (I should have tried to buy it). I'm in the process of trying to use the MX Buddy app and the built in GPS on an old iPhone I have laying around. I thought about cutting out a Pro Taper bar pad so I can see my stats live. I'm a slow B rider, but I think it would help my lines and turning laps. But seeing this GPS, wow it has up to 10 location updates per second. Most of these devices are like 1 a second. I may have to get one myself! How long have you had yours?

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6/19/2018 10:16 AM

MBR wrote:

I haven't noticed that such a big variable with Litpro. The base photo on normal tracks can be old and it is just as a base layer. I'm only interested how the lines are compared to each other and which one is the fastest. In that sense the lines seem to be really accurate and as stated earlier I have been able to cut over 10 seconds per lap by using the Litpro and choosing the fastest lines around the track. One difference between Litpro and the rest is that Litpro GPS antenna is huge and therefore much more accurate. Hopefully someone from Litpro would comment on this.
Photo

I am the inventor of LITPro (hardware and apps) and so my point of view is pretty biased wink, but I can tell you what we did to make the best possible product for motocross.

1. As someone pointed out already, most of our product by weight/volume is a ceramic GPS antenna. It's huge compared to other products and the single most expensive internal component to LITPro
2. Our GPS operates at 20hz. Compared to other products we are at least 2x the resolution and in many cases 20x the resolution. And our GPS engine is designed for vehicles that change directions quickly as opposed to straight-line (like you would use in your car). This is a huge differentiator because if you are going 30mph and you track at 1hz (1 time per second) then your data points are 13 meters apart and with that it is impossible to describe a corner.
3. We do sensor fusion and combine a bunch of internal sensor data like gyro and accelerometer to give us a ton of data about what you are doing (in the air, on a start, in a corner, in a crash, etc). Our sensors and algorithms are calibrated and designed for MX and no-other product we know of can claim this.

Regarding the comment about seeing some strange accuracy stuff from Supercross data. We do struggle a little (like all GPS products will) inside of a stadium with the stadium walls blocking satellites on the horizon. The GPS satellites on the horizon are the most important ones because they provide the best geometry. In normal riding conditions like where the Supercross teams train and where public motocross tracks are typically the GPS accuracy will be much higher - like in the screenshot above. Under normal conditions (not in a stadium or on the side of a mountain) we can confidently distinguish between riding two different ruts that are 6 inches to a foot apart (more about this below).

Relative accuracy vs absolute accuracy...
For the fellow nerds out there wink No GPS product can claim a certain level of absolute accuracy in feet or meters or whatever and if they try to do that it is a complete lie. Claiming relative accuracy is much more possible to do however... Here's why. Absolute accuracy is like painting an X on the ground out your front door and then putting the GPS product there and then for 20 days straight the GPS product reports the same exact position every time no matter the circumstances (like the satellites are moving all around in the sky, a big truck comes and parks next to it, a group of people come and stand around it, etc). The position reported will change all over the place, sometimes by much more than 3 meters guaranteed. Relative accuracy is different though and is an important distinction because of how GPS engines come up with their position solution. Relative accuracy means that the amount of error from one solution to the next solution is limited to a specific amount, and maybe that is a few inches or for some products that may be a few feet. Relative accuracy basically introduces a time component to things. The absolute accuracy can still be off by a few feet, but you just aren't seeing the 5-foot shift happen 20 times a second or whatever creating a huge scatter of dots on the map when nothing is moving...

With LITPro we benefit a ton from the relative accuracy of our GPS technology. In great GPS environments (like Pala raceway here in so-cal) our data looks so good it seems like we are using a smoothing algorithm to cheat (we don't... it's raw data always). In difficult GPS environments, like a track on the side of a steep mountain, our data can have a 3-meter error to it. But because of what we do to control the error, and because we know what's going on inside the GPS engine, we can still typically distinguish between which rut you took in the corner, and thanks to the super-high relative accuracy of LITPro what you will see is an entire session of 20 laps or whatever where the entire session is shifted by 3-meters in the same direction. So when this happens you can still see which rut you were in, even when the ruts are only a foot apart, and what it looks like happened is the image of the track is what shifted. And our LITPro apps allow you to easily shift the image back underneath the route lines so that everything lines up again.

Here's an easy test for anyone with a LITPro already to see how this all works. Turn on your LITPro and find a spot outdoors, turn on tracking, and just stand in the same place for 1 minute, or maybe even just walk around for a minute and sync the data and look how ugly it is. It will probably jump around and look kinda jagged and wiggly. It is important for this test to stay below 5mph. Now do a test where you are moving at around 8mph or faster and look how smooth the data becomes. This is part of the beauty of our design and us taking advantage of the relative accuracy of our GPS engine to make a great motocross product. In the second test your data will smooth out a ton and start to look really clean. The more you move like a motocross bike does, the more our system stops guessing about changes in directions and we just pin it to your movement.

Finally, we of course wish we could make LITPro a lot less expensive so more people could try it out - and we are working on doing that. We love motocross and built a product we love using because we ride too. Hopefully you guys can give it a shot some time soon.

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6/19/2018 10:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/19/2018 11:16 AM

Great post Richard! smile

Those of you that do not have the foggiest idea what @ricozinn is talking about wink, read this article:
https://mxbuddy.wordpress.com

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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ iOS App "MX Buddy - The Motocross Toolbox" +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

6/19/2018 11:32 AM

pietscher wrote:

Great post Richard! smile

Those of you that do not have the foggiest idea what @ricozinn is talking about wink, read this article:
https://mxbuddy.wordpress.com

Yeah, great article on the MX Buddy blog @pietscher Thanks

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6/19/2018 11:55 AM

MBR wrote:

I haven't noticed that such a big variable with Litpro. The base photo on normal tracks can be old and it is just as a base layer. I'm only interested how the lines are compared to each other and which one is the fastest. In that sense the lines seem to be really accurate and as stated earlier I have been able to cut over 10 seconds per lap by using the Litpro and choosing the fastest lines around the track. One difference between Litpro and the rest is that Litpro GPS antenna is huge and therefore much more accurate. Hopefully someone from Litpro would comment on this.
Photo

ricozinn wrote:

I am the inventor of LITPro (hardware and apps) and so my point of view is pretty biased wink, but I can tell you what we did to make the best possible product for motocross.

1. As someone pointed out already, most of our product by weight/volume is a ceramic GPS antenna. It's huge compared to other products and the single most expensive internal component to LITPro
2. Our GPS operates at 20hz. Compared to other products we are at least 2x the resolution and in many cases 20x the resolution. And our GPS engine is designed for vehicles that change directions quickly as opposed to straight-line (like you would use in your car). This is a huge differentiator because if you are going 30mph and you track at 1hz (1 time per second) then your data points are 13 meters apart and with that it is impossible to describe a corner.
3. We do sensor fusion and combine a bunch of internal sensor data like gyro and accelerometer to give us a ton of data about what you are doing (in the air, on a start, in a corner, in a crash, etc). Our sensors and algorithms are calibrated and designed for MX and no-other product we know of can claim this.

Regarding the comment about seeing some strange accuracy stuff from Supercross data. We do struggle a little (like all GPS products will) inside of a stadium with the stadium walls blocking satellites on the horizon. The GPS satellites on the horizon are the most important ones because they provide the best geometry. In normal riding conditions like where the Supercross teams train and where public motocross tracks are typically the GPS accuracy will be much higher - like in the screenshot above. Under normal conditions (not in a stadium or on the side of a mountain) we can confidently distinguish between riding two different ruts that are 6 inches to a foot apart (more about this below).

Relative accuracy vs absolute accuracy...
For the fellow nerds out there wink No GPS product can claim a certain level of absolute accuracy in feet or meters or whatever and if they try to do that it is a complete lie. Claiming relative accuracy is much more possible to do however... Here's why. Absolute accuracy is like painting an X on the ground out your front door and then putting the GPS product there and then for 20 days straight the GPS product reports the same exact position every time no matter the circumstances (like the satellites are moving all around in the sky, a big truck comes and parks next to it, a group of people come and stand around it, etc). The position reported will change all over the place, sometimes by much more than 3 meters guaranteed. Relative accuracy is different though and is an important distinction because of how GPS engines come up with their position solution. Relative accuracy means that the amount of error from one solution to the next solution is limited to a specific amount, and maybe that is a few inches or for some products that may be a few feet. Relative accuracy basically introduces a time component to things. The absolute accuracy can still be off by a few feet, but you just aren't seeing the 5-foot shift happen 20 times a second or whatever creating a huge scatter of dots on the map when nothing is moving...

With LITPro we benefit a ton from the relative accuracy of our GPS technology. In great GPS environments (like Pala raceway here in so-cal) our data looks so good it seems like we are using a smoothing algorithm to cheat (we don't... it's raw data always). In difficult GPS environments, like a track on the side of a steep mountain, our data can have a 3-meter error to it. But because of what we do to control the error, and because we know what's going on inside the GPS engine, we can still typically distinguish between which rut you took in the corner, and thanks to the super-high relative accuracy of LITPro what you will see is an entire session of 20 laps or whatever where the entire session is shifted by 3-meters in the same direction. So when this happens you can still see which rut you were in, even when the ruts are only a foot apart, and what it looks like happened is the image of the track is what shifted. And our LITPro apps allow you to easily shift the image back underneath the route lines so that everything lines up again.

Here's an easy test for anyone with a LITPro already to see how this all works. Turn on your LITPro and find a spot outdoors, turn on tracking, and just stand in the same place for 1 minute, or maybe even just walk around for a minute and sync the data and look how ugly it is. It will probably jump around and look kinda jagged and wiggly. It is important for this test to stay below 5mph. Now do a test where you are moving at around 8mph or faster and look how smooth the data becomes. This is part of the beauty of our design and us taking advantage of the relative accuracy of our GPS engine to make a great motocross product. In the second test your data will smooth out a ton and start to look really clean. The more you move like a motocross bike does, the more our system stops guessing about changes in directions and we just pin it to your movement.

Finally, we of course wish we could make LITPro a lot less expensive so more people could try it out - and we are working on doing that. We love motocross and built a product we love using because we ride too. Hopefully you guys can give it a shot some time soon.

Wow, we generally prefer to debate on this forum using conjecture, opinions, pseudo-knowledge and some misinformation sprinkled in for good measure but i suppose we’ll make an exception and allow you to use scientifically supported cold hard facts given your firsthand and intimate knowledge of the subject matter. All jokes aside appreciate the education and congrats on developing such a revolutionary product. Now since I’m sure you’re eager to have some hardcore MX enthusiast test out your product, is it safe to assume you were getting ready to post a 15% off promo code so we can all run out and purchase said revolutionary technology? ; )

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