Let’s talk new dual sports

jbonemalone
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299
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Location
Otis, LA US
Edited Date/Time 8/7/2022 2:48pm
Okay, I’m the past few years, dual sports have been available in the purest off-road form possible.
Long gone are the days of : the engine has acceptable loafing power but the electric add ons are floppy, the weight is higher than acceptable and the suspension is adequate on road but lacks tremendously off tarmac.
Oh it’s okay but I really wish it had a six speed! Are you hearing us Suzuki?!

With the Austrian invasion and subsequent Pseudo Swedish brothers , and the Italian pasta rockets from Beta, that old guard is now just a placeholder for Sunday city runs and starving college kids.
True you can still make a venerable lumpy XR, Drz, and other older style dual sport steeds and have a great time. But wow. The new stuff is pretty damn fantastic all rounders.

I decided I wanted a city scoot , fun run and backroad bomber that I could hit some two and single track while on the way to and from. I test rode a couple bikes from local dealers here in Dallas and my mind was instantly sent into , “ I could compete in harescrambes and enduros on this thing “. Like really compete not just make it to the end.

Blown away by the weights, the power”albeit on one without any upgrades and a few on the other. “

I rode a used Ktm 250excf. I was expecting anemic , revvy, busy and uncomfortable. Well two out of three ain’t bad, It want anemic at all. It was revvy, it was uncomfortable but let’s be honest , these ain’t gold wings.

I rode a stock ktm350 excf. Blown away the difference in power , the 250 uncorked felt faster actually. I read about ecm and exhaust with reed valve and intake upgrades. It was quiet, like mouse in a hayfield quiet. But it just felt flat. Overall it was a great motorcycle. But without the upgrades, just meh.

I rode a ktm500excf. This I can see why people flock to it. Good ergos as did the other two ktms. Suspension quite good. Power? Well honestly it was quite adequate. Honestly felt like a torquey 350. Might go as far as Saying a cammed down 350sxf.
I honestly was a little disappointed in the power output.
A little surprised even. Again. Overall I see why people flock to it as it’s a solid bike. The great part of Ktm and husky ownership is aftermarket support to massage your machine into any amalgamation of motorcycle nirvana you wish. Literally anything.
But as always , there is a point d of flesh to be spent to get that gold.
And then,

I rode a Beta.

Forget anything I said about the KTMs because it didn’t matter anymore.
I rode a 500rrs power? Well it felt as if the Ktm may have had a little bit more right off idle, but the Beta quickly proved to have more in the meaty midrange area. The audible sound from the exhaust and I take is a little more but nothing like a closed course machine.
I went back and forth on the power thing and the dealer then said , hey if want hot we can flash the RR map in it and you can run an FMF exhaust. Picks up a good bit of power across the board. He let me ride his personal bike and well…. Impressive. It was like a full on off-road race bike.. which honestly, I like the smoother power for dual sporting but it sure was fun.

I then rode the 390, I know on paper the weight is like 4 lbs less than the 500. But it feels like 30. very tractable , lightweight on the bars and ran smoothly with no hiccups, stalling or leanness I could see.
Great suspension, horrible seat as always though.

But then I rode the 350rrs and I kinda felt at home.

Let’s cut to the chase here. I took it home. It was love at first sight. I saw her from across the room. Our eyes met, she look was me I melted. And I knew she was the one. Lol.
It wasn’t the high strung 350 I have at home. It was like an electric power. This thing felt like my xc bike in the garage. The tires on all the betas were Michelin off-road and they do well on the asphalt but hook up great off-road. Like great great. Might as well be full knobbies.
Ergonomically, this bike was like dual sport nirvana as soon as I sat my 5’9” 180lb frame on it.
Things I think Ktm does better ? The front brake, why can’t everything have brembos on the front?
Stock tires, For my application I’m gonna eat these maxxis tires up in 100 miles. Tkc80 suck off-road but are really good pavement pounders. So I’ll have to get something a little more streetable but who doesn’t change tires anyway? Tires are a very application specific mod anyway.
The way the 350rrs runs is so wierd, it has really really good power but it’s muted a touch from tall gearing and epa specific tuning but completely fine as is. It’s hard to explain. There is no hit. Not a touch of surge just linear power all the way to redline. Grab another gear and whack it open, smooth minimal vibration easy building power all the way to the top.
I don’t know why this is the one for me but it just felt right.

I really liked that the Betas come with a traitech voyager stock, lifting handles built into the rear fender, no tool air filter access, No tool seat removal, which will come in handy when I get that seat concepts in and don’t feel like breaking out a 10mm and an 8mm! Are you listening Kawasaki? Wow we are spoiled aren’t we?

I am on the fence of getting the RR map flashed in and putting the fmf powerbomb combo in because the power is really really good on this thing.
I like that it isn’t obnoxiously loud and even when I go out on the backroads and act 16years old , lofting long wheelies, backing it into 180s and power sliding for the fun of it, it’s fine. Better than fine. Outstanding even. I’m afraid if I retune it I’ll loose some of that character that I love. I never thought in a million rides that I’d like a bike with less power. But here we are.
I can see how a Supermoto setup on this bike would get my license revoked. But they sure are sexy.

Honestly , I think I could compete quite well in a hare scramble. I think with some clickers here and there I could make a podium in a vet class mx race with a good set of mx tires on here. These bikes are that good stock.
My other two bikes are a Ktm 350sxf, and a Kawasaki450x. I think this red head fits right in.

So in all this long winded blabber I guess I’m trying to say I can’t believe just how far the dual sport category has come. Just how much fun I’m having slipping this red rocket around Dallas. Just how cool it is to be living in the time we do now and how good we have it with bikes now a days. There really isn’t a bad bike on the market anymore.
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yak651
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Appleton, WI US
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7/31/2022 6:24am
Thanks for the write up. I’m looking at dual sports, unfortunately I haven’t had the opportunities to test ride any. Looking for a 500EXC, but have seen a couple Betas that seemed interesting. Hopefully this fall can find one someone doesn’t want to store for winter
3
jbonemalone
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299
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12/4/2016
Location
Otis, LA US
7/31/2022 7:04am
TheMilkman wrote:
Did you get it from Southwest Superbikes?
Southwest super bikes is in fact where i got this one.
The test ride on the 500 was in Colorado though.
Southwest was sold out of 500s
TheMilkman
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Location
Plano, TX US
7/31/2022 7:11am
Mark at Southwest Superbikes is a really cool guy. Have fun on your new bike!
1

The Shop

bichwolf
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Emerald Isle, NC US
7/31/2022 6:31pm
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390.
It matters so much what someone is going to do with a DS bike.
Cool write up, bike looks sweet! Tires, tires, tires..the next dilemma!
2
jbonemalone
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Location
Otis, LA US
7/31/2022 7:54pm
You’re telling me.
My last conversion was a yz426 Supermoto , before that a klx250, a dr650, an xr 650r plated too.
I ordered a Dunlop k950 for the rear.
I’ve used it a lot and really like it. Lasts forever and always hooks up.
The front, well who knows. Probably use a shinko 244 for bomb oh Around the city and just eating up a front.
My next acquisition will be Supermoto setup for the utmost in license revocation.
Just have to find some in stock or wait 8 weeks.
1
BigBoreFan58
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Beverly Hills, CA US
7/31/2022 9:22pm
I have 2018 KTM 500 EXC, stock it was downright anemic. I swapped to a Vortex ECU and FMF muffler, it's much better now.

I was looking at the Betas. but there was no good Beta dealer in my area.


6
Bauer
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Location
Corona, CA US
7/31/2022 11:45pm
I love my 2022 500 EXC-F! Besides all the obvious mods you can see, the Athena GET ecu and traction control are real game changers...
















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gt80rider
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Boulder, CO US
8/1/2022 7:26am
bichwolf wrote:
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390. It...
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390.
It matters so much what someone is going to do with a DS bike.
Cool write up, bike looks sweet! Tires, tires, tires..the next dilemma!
390 KTM??? if so, hope you like crotch rockets with wonkyyyy powerbands....
4
langhammx
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Santa Clarita, CA US
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8/1/2022 8:16am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2022 8:17am
2020 EXC500 Euro model

It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in…










6
Press516
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Gilbert, AZ US
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8/1/2022 8:41am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2022 10:14am
There is a slot between the new elite gear and the XR and DRZ old school stuff. Not for everyone, but might be a great spot for someone that wants new at a bit more affordable price.

Something like the SWM RE500R for around $8300 is a great buy. KYB, Brembo, Mikuni EFI, Michelin... No mega shortcuts taken.


https://swm-motorcycles.it/product/rs-500-r/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7APktk3IfIw&ab_channel=DirtbikeMagazine

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8/1/2022 8:44am
langhammx wrote:
2020 EXC500 Euro model It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in… [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562135/s1200_3FD3DB70_B093_4309_8A42_13E919308D37.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562133/s1200_98AC7751_4C9A_416A_BF08_E10D1645B5EB.jpg[/img]...
2020 EXC500 Euro model

It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in…










That is a bitchen KTM500. All of his bikes are perfect.
1
bichwolf
Posts
532
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2/12/2022
Location
Emerald Isle, NC US
8/1/2022 9:59am
bichwolf wrote:
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390. It...
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390.
It matters so much what someone is going to do with a DS bike.
Cool write up, bike looks sweet! Tires, tires, tires..the next dilemma!
gt80rider wrote:
390 KTM??? if so, hope you like crotch rockets with wonkyyyy powerbands....
Yes
Hope it's OK, want to feel really solid of fire roads, double track and cruise a few hundred miles on black top comfortably. I also really like the electronics that come on the bike.
bichwolf
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532
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Location
Emerald Isle, NC US
8/1/2022 10:00am
langhammx wrote:
2020 EXC500 Euro model It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in… [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562135/s1200_3FD3DB70_B093_4309_8A42_13E919308D37.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562133/s1200_98AC7751_4C9A_416A_BF08_E10D1645B5EB.jpg[/img]...
2020 EXC500 Euro model

It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in…










That is a bitchen KTM500. All of his bikes are perfect.
That is wicked indeed
1
Magoofan
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Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
8/1/2022 10:18am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2022 10:19am
bichwolf wrote:
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390. It...
I've had KTM 250XCFW, 520EXC, 450EXC, WR400, VStrom, DRZ400, DR650, all set up legal for dualsport riding the last 20 years. Waiting on a 390.
It matters so much what someone is going to do with a DS bike.
Cool write up, bike looks sweet! Tires, tires, tires..the next dilemma!
gt80rider wrote:
390 KTM??? if so, hope you like crotch rockets with wonkyyyy powerbands....
bichwolf wrote:
Yes Hope it's OK, want to feel really solid of fire roads, double track and cruise a few hundred miles on black top comfortably. I also...
Yes
Hope it's OK, want to feel really solid of fire roads, double track and cruise a few hundred miles on black top comfortably. I also really like the electronics that come on the bike.
Cruising a few hundred miles on black top comfortably isn't going to happen on any dual purpose bike....especially with knobbies.

I waffled back and forth for years between getting a DP or an ADV. I liked idea of the lighter DP for off roading....but everyone warned me if I had to ride roads to where the trails start, I would be miserable. I ended up going ADV...I spend most of my time off roading with it....so it has DOT knobbies. Which suck on road.

ADV bikes are very off road capable...but obviously not going to go places where the skinny/lighter bikes are going to go.



2
alphado
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Location
Erie, PA US
8/1/2022 11:15am
I love my KTM 390 Adventure. Great on paved and gravel roads and not too bad on dirt. took it out yesterday on some hard pack single track. Had fun, even caught some air.
2
Fireblade2k
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Saint Petersburg, FL US
8/1/2022 11:27am
I've had 2 drz400's, a klx250s, a xr650r, but this '08 te610 is the best I've had. Fuel injection, wide ratio transmission that just lopes down the highway at ease, and torque for days. She's a keeper. Currently in supermoto setup


4
sumdood
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San Clemente, CA US
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1267th
8/1/2022 12:28pm
I didn't have many to test drive. I rode a 2019 excf350 and was pretty underwhelmed with the power, especially coming off my plated 03 WR450. So I bought a 2019 excf500. I did the standard motor mods, desmog kit, new cdi and silencer, the motor rips now. Tractors down low and more than I need up top. It's set up for what I do with it, which is mostly exploring (fire roads) and single track. It's low, soft and comfortable. It's a little soft for moto but it corners awesome, handles bitchin in deep sand and is comfortable enough to do 150 miles or so before I get monkeybutt.

8
8/1/2022 1:27pm
My gig is all about getting more seat time and sort of re-inventing my high school days when we rode everywhere on one bike. Most of my runs these days are either from the house to the track (20 mins each way) or out to the woods (45 mins). For light duty on surface roads, my 501s is great but, as others have noted, the knobs and a dirt-oriented machine don't adapt so well to highway running. On the other hand, even relatively slower speeds in the city can have a pretty negative impact on the knobbies, as this recent pic of my front 606 illustrates. Bottom line is that in all likelihood the perfect do-it-all bike doesn't (and may never) exist, but living with the quirks isn't so bad given the great overall fun-factor of these machines.


3
jbonemalone
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299
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Otis, LA US
8/1/2022 1:51pm
I miss the days of riding to my friends , riding through the trails and ending up at the burger joint.
A dual sport will always be a compromise,
But my adventure bike always seemed like too much a compromise in the dirt.
I dont do long highway anymore so if it’s more than about 30 miles away I load the bike on the bronco and head out.
A dual sport really makes that kid come out in you.
My favorite thing is when people look at you in traffic like is he supposed be on that thing here?
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MudPup545
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Imlay City, MI US
8/1/2022 2:22pm
Crazy to think that this bike is plated and 100% road legal.
First time I rode it into town ( kid’s high school basketball game ) one of the other dads was out front having a smoke, watched me come down the road. I park and head towards the entrance. He glares at me and says, “you’re going to get busted, that is a dirt bike…..you know better”.
“Nope, I’m legal….fully insured, registered and plated”.

“No…..you can’t ride those on the road!”

“That one you can”. And I just walked on in.
13
yak651
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Appleton, WI US
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192nd
8/1/2022 2:29pm
langhammx wrote:
2020 EXC500 Euro model It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in… [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562135/s1200_3FD3DB70_B093_4309_8A42_13E919308D37.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/01/562133/s1200_98AC7751_4C9A_416A_BF08_E10D1645B5EB.jpg[/img]...
2020 EXC500 Euro model

It will be for sale in a couple months. It’s still got under 50 hours on it, barely broken in…










Beautiful…I know if you have to ask you can’t afford it, but around what will you be looking to get for that?
KTM831
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Franksville, WI US
8/1/2022 3:40pm
I have 2018 KTM 500 EXC, stock it was downright anemic. I swapped to a Vortex ECU and FMF muffler, it's much better now. I was...
I have 2018 KTM 500 EXC, stock it was downright anemic. I swapped to a Vortex ECU and FMF muffler, it's much better now.

I was looking at the Betas. but there was no good Beta dealer in my area.


I am convinced your bike is my next model bike.
Love that body style and chassis. My 08 530exc-r has 12k on it and it’s just time to have something newer.

3
Magoofan
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Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
8/1/2022 3:40pm
My gig is all about getting more seat time and sort of re-inventing my high school days when we rode everywhere on one bike. Most of...
My gig is all about getting more seat time and sort of re-inventing my high school days when we rode everywhere on one bike. Most of my runs these days are either from the house to the track (20 mins each way) or out to the woods (45 mins). For light duty on surface roads, my 501s is great but, as others have noted, the knobs and a dirt-oriented machine don't adapt so well to highway running. On the other hand, even relatively slower speeds in the city can have a pretty negative impact on the knobbies, as this recent pic of my front 606 illustrates. Bottom line is that in all likelihood the perfect do-it-all bike doesn't (and may never) exist, but living with the quirks isn't so bad given the great overall fun-factor of these machines.


Yup....knobbies don't age well when you're on the road. Threw some Motoz Rallz on my Tiger back in March. They are phenomenal off road....but I'll be lucky to get 3K miles out of them.
Between the miles to get to the dirt...and the hardpack here in San Diego...they not long for this world.






4
jbonemalone
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Otis, LA US
8/1/2022 3:46pm
I was sporting around on an Aprilia Caponord 1200.
If your tires were suited at all to off-road fun you paid dearly for the rubber and it lasted as long as a Hollywood marriage.
Dollar for dollar it was hard to beat shinko 804/805 combo just because it ate them so fast.
RichieW13
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Thousand Oaks, CA US
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8/1/2022 4:46pm
Here's my Honda CRF450RL. I ride it 95% on the dirt, but like having the option for the street on occasion.



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1
rjg
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9/27/2016
Location
CA
8/1/2022 6:18pm
My gig is all about getting more seat time and sort of re-inventing my high school days when we rode everywhere on one bike. Most of...
My gig is all about getting more seat time and sort of re-inventing my high school days when we rode everywhere on one bike. Most of my runs these days are either from the house to the track (20 mins each way) or out to the woods (45 mins). For light duty on surface roads, my 501s is great but, as others have noted, the knobs and a dirt-oriented machine don't adapt so well to highway running. On the other hand, even relatively slower speeds in the city can have a pretty negative impact on the knobbies, as this recent pic of my front 606 illustrates. Bottom line is that in all likelihood the perfect do-it-all bike doesn't (and may never) exist, but living with the quirks isn't so bad given the great overall fun-factor of these machines.


It could exist if the two biggest problems are solved. Tires that are good on dirt and street, and a transmission that can adapt to dirt and street (both modes).

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