Leblanc Story: this is why the AMA needs to raise pro age to 18

Titan1
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10/4/2022 8:18am
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the occasional big amateur national, sure train during the week (my daughters dance about 20 hours per week, but still live normal lives...if its normal for teenagers to get up at 4:45 every morning?)...then when they graduate high school if they have the talent and the desire they start pursuing a pro career. And start hitting up all the big amateur nationals, start training more rigorously, maybe move to one of those training centers, etc. and see what comes of it...???

If the talent is there, the sponsors and pro teams will be there, and they will start their pro career more well rounded, more mature, and with far more desire and determination...if its not, then that kid goes to college or otherwise starts a career doing something else and they saved their parents a bunch of money, saved themselves burn out and a bunch of injuries and life goes on.
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Leave Us To
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10/4/2022 8:26am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 8:28am
Titan1 wrote:
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the...
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the occasional big amateur national, sure train during the week (my daughters dance about 20 hours per week, but still live normal lives...if its normal for teenagers to get up at 4:45 every morning?)...then when they graduate high school if they have the talent and the desire they start pursuing a pro career. And start hitting up all the big amateur nationals, start training more rigorously, maybe move to one of those training centers, etc. and see what comes of it...???

If the talent is there, the sponsors and pro teams will be there, and they will start their pro career more well rounded, more mature, and with far more desire and determination...if its not, then that kid goes to college or otherwise starts a career doing something else and they saved their parents a bunch of money, saved themselves burn out and a bunch of injuries and life goes on.
You nailed it. The interesting thing is I am pretty sure you have to be a little older to have this perspective. Thanks for adding some real world perspective but please don't tell me your seventeen. j/k
GrapeApe
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10/4/2022 8:28am
Titan1 wrote:
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the...
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the occasional big amateur national, sure train during the week (my daughters dance about 20 hours per week, but still live normal lives...if its normal for teenagers to get up at 4:45 every morning?)...then when they graduate high school if they have the talent and the desire they start pursuing a pro career. And start hitting up all the big amateur nationals, start training more rigorously, maybe move to one of those training centers, etc. and see what comes of it...???

If the talent is there, the sponsors and pro teams will be there, and they will start their pro career more well rounded, more mature, and with far more desire and determination...if its not, then that kid goes to college or otherwise starts a career doing something else and they saved their parents a bunch of money, saved themselves burn out and a bunch of injuries and life goes on.
That's pretty close to the exact path of Justin Cooper
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10/4/2022 8:39am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 8:41am
GrapeApe wrote:
That's pretty close to the exact path of Justin Cooper
Jeff Stanton
John Dowd

Jeremy McGrath started racing MX at fifteen. I know he raced BMX but it still is amazing how quickly and how great he became. Not sure of his high school path but mentioning him for the age perspective.
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kage173
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10/4/2022 8:40am
Kyle978 wrote:
What’s always made me scratch my head is why so many parents with a deep well of resources at their disposal allow teams to dictate their...
What’s always made me scratch my head is why so many parents with a deep well of resources at their disposal allow teams to dictate their kids career timelines, bike set up etc.

You can have Twisted, XPR etc. build you a pro level engine, Enzo/PC/FC/REP do your suspension etc. and you can build a bike as good or better than what Team Green or Star is going to give an amateur.

Your kid can win any amateur national on that bike, and if a paying pro ride is his goal, turn some heads on that same bike outdoors.

There are very wealthy families that have essentially given the reins of their own kid to be on a team. They are riding equipment they may not get along with, train/live somewhere they don’t desire, make undesirable career decisions due to opinion of the team/ sponsor influence etc. What is the actual benefit of an amateur ride if you have the funds to support an amateur program?

The bikes aren’t the secret sauce, and other than Star none of the teams have a coach/trainer/mentor for the young bucks.
Didn't the Masterpools try doing that with Ty? Kid was leading nationals but since he wanted to slow roll supercross Star booted him. The teams have all the leverage
yak651
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10/4/2022 8:44am
nrosso391 wrote:
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or...
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went...
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went back to 16. Been wrong before so those with better memories, please chime in.
GrapeApe wrote:
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed...
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed another year of seasoning lol
That's how I remember it, his dad threated to take him to the GPs and DC rescinded the rule
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yak651
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10/4/2022 8:46am
Titan1 wrote:
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the...
There would be less burn out if these kids lived at home, went high school, enjoyed life as teenagers, raced on the week ends, hitting the occasional big amateur national, sure train during the week (my daughters dance about 20 hours per week, but still live normal lives...if its normal for teenagers to get up at 4:45 every morning?)...then when they graduate high school if they have the talent and the desire they start pursuing a pro career. And start hitting up all the big amateur nationals, start training more rigorously, maybe move to one of those training centers, etc. and see what comes of it...???

If the talent is there, the sponsors and pro teams will be there, and they will start their pro career more well rounded, more mature, and with far more desire and determination...if its not, then that kid goes to college or otherwise starts a career doing something else and they saved their parents a bunch of money, saved themselves burn out and a bunch of injuries and life goes on.
This here, pool all the six figure "travel expense" contracts that they give the next big thing and use that money to support pros that are trying to make a go at the national level.
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MaxPower
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10/4/2022 9:03am
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being kidnapped and sold to pro mx teams I can't believe anyone would give this a 2nd thought
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scott_nz
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10/4/2022 9:37am
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went...
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went back to 16. Been wrong before so those with better memories, please chime in.
GrapeApe wrote:
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed...
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed another year of seasoning lol
yak651 wrote:
That's how I remember it, his dad threated to take him to the GPs and DC rescinded the rule
No rule ever came in but it was discussed ,! And ac was said to he going to Europe if they did
USA
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10/4/2022 9:58am
MaxPower wrote:
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being...
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being kidnapped and sold to pro mx teams I can't believe anyone would give this a 2nd thought
Wow, a homophobe, what a relic from the past.

I think the minimum age at 16 is fine for the 250 class. In the GPs, Roczen and Herlings were winning at 14-15 years old, when you're ready you're ready.

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RPM68
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10/4/2022 10:12am
MaxPower wrote:
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being...
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being kidnapped and sold to pro mx teams I can't believe anyone would give this a 2nd thought
USA wrote:
Wow, a homophobe, what a relic from the past. I think the minimum age at 16 is fine for the 250 class. In the GPs, Roczen...
Wow, a homophobe, what a relic from the past.

I think the minimum age at 16 is fine for the 250 class. In the GPs, Roczen and Herlings were winning at 14-15 years old, when you're ready you're ready.

That's not homophobic, that's a parent not wanting kids learning shit kids shouldn't learn about.
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10/4/2022 6:08pm
MaxPower wrote:
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being...
I'd be more concerned about letting drag queens have story time with kindergarten children than letting 16 year olds race pro mx. Unless children were being kidnapped and sold to pro mx teams I can't believe anyone would give this a 2nd thought
Take your Tucker Carlson BS to Non Moto please.
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Leave Us To
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10/4/2022 6:09pm
RPM68 wrote:
That's not homophobic, that's a parent not wanting kids learning shit kids shouldn't learn about.
It also has F all to do with this thread.
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Phillip_Lamb
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10/4/2022 8:46pm
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
F1 and nascar dont, but any serious driver is still racing a lot. maybe not nascar, but camping west series, or karting series.

injuries and training constantly will burn out anyone. even if theyre fast enough to make the top doesnt mean they have the stuff to make it. and for saying the sport pushes everyone to live at training facilities Justin Cooper is a prime example that you can do it without living in a training center and if anything this is probably a healthier route for most ppl.
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Braaaphole
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10/4/2022 9:09pm
SGoodman wrote:
I have a bigger problem with all the kids in training facilities.... all these kids wasting their childhoods for no good reason, other than for a...
I have a bigger problem with all the kids in training facilities.... all these kids wasting their childhoods for no good reason, other than for a couple of them are used to make Feld and MXSports millions upon millions of dollars... leaving them to live out their lives with busted up minds and bodies (and with jack diddly for cash)...
swe292 wrote:
i also think these training facilities leaves us with less talented riders rising to the top...
Actually, it's quite the opposite. It seems that way because you're not seeing a McGrath type come in and dominate immediately, but the truth is that training facilities have narrowed the talent gap between the elites and the ones just getting there. The elite guys are still rising to the top and they always will, but that next tier of riders below them are more prepared now and and riding at a higher level.
Heck, nearly every C class rider at Loretta's is a training facility kid. You have to spend time there if you want to race at that level now.
I talked to the dad of a kid we know at Loretta's that's one of the top in his class. He's won championships and is on the podium every year. He told me that the same group of kids are still winning, but watch how much harder it's gotten for them to come through the pack the last 2 years because so many more are living at facilities now. He was spot on.
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10/4/2022 10:16pm
i think the reason why alot of these kids stick around for 2 seasons then dip out is because they come from wealty families and wealthy families tend to be business minded.

the sport isnt growing and the pay isnt there unless you're a top guy. its alot easier to just work for the family business and get paid to learn how to run it

sitting in an Air conditioned office is alot easier than pounding out motos all summer
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Shawn142
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10/4/2022 11:33pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 11:35pm
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
F1 and nascar dont, but any serious driver is still racing a lot. maybe not nascar, but camping west series, or karting series. injuries and training...
F1 and nascar dont, but any serious driver is still racing a lot. maybe not nascar, but camping west series, or karting series.

injuries and training constantly will burn out anyone. even if theyre fast enough to make the top doesnt mean they have the stuff to make it. and for saying the sport pushes everyone to live at training facilities Justin Cooper is a prime example that you can do it without living in a training center and if anything this is probably a healthier route for most ppl.
Current F1 world champ Max Verstappen got his first start in Formula 1 at 17. Now at the ripe age of 24 he's a 7 year vet of the sport. While not 16, there have been probably half a dozen teenagers to race in F1. NASCAR only turns left so I know nothing about it and I'm not going to research it.
10/5/2022 3:55am
GrapeApe wrote:
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This...
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This would just punish the elite riders, and wouldn't change a thing for the others.
Honestly, did moving Vohland up early really affect his career negatively? He’s been drawing a factory pay check and learning about bike setup on a factory level for a couple years now. He’ll be entering 2023 SX healthy with 2 years of experience in his back pocket. If anything, I feel like he’s way ahead of where he’s be if he stayed amateur for the last 2 years. If he doesn’t produce in SX this year, then I guess he just didn’t have what it takes, but he walks away with a couple years of a factory salary in his bank account and the knowledge that both he and the team did everything they could for the past 3 years. The struggles of the past two years might just give him the knowledge and experience he needs to perform in 2023. If he stayed down the past 2 years, he’d just be 2 years further back in this learning curve.
JB 19
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10/5/2022 4:14am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2022 4:15am
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
Deegan is 100% not the most ready a 16 year old there's ever been. You forgot about js7, RC, Jett Larence, and plenty more. Deegan might...
Deegan is 100% not the most ready a 16 year old there's ever been. You forgot about js7, RC, Jett Larence, and plenty more. Deegan might be the most ready YouTuber there's ever been. 
And Ron Lechien, Damon Bradshaw, Robbie Reynard, Kevin Windham.....etc. Deegan isn't even close to those guys, but I do think Deegan is ready.

In my opinion, the training facilities aren't to blame, but the parents who park their kids there for years are to blame. I think training is great in small doses. The current generation of kids just aren't good enough and that's why they aren't making it. It isn't the 30 year old guys that are still around that are the problem. Your reflexes will never be faster and your fear never lower than when you are 18 years old.

Speed is built by racing all the time on different tracks. Racing takes you out of your comfort zone and forces new speed. Training sharpens skills and technique. These current kids have all the skills in the world, but lack old school straight line speed. .... and yeah, those guys in the blurry YouTube videos from decades ago... they were fast.
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LoudLove
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10/5/2022 4:22am
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
F1 and nascar dont, but any serious driver is still racing a lot. maybe not nascar, but camping west series, or karting series. injuries and training...
F1 and nascar dont, but any serious driver is still racing a lot. maybe not nascar, but camping west series, or karting series.

injuries and training constantly will burn out anyone. even if theyre fast enough to make the top doesnt mean they have the stuff to make it. and for saying the sport pushes everyone to live at training facilities Justin Cooper is a prime example that you can do it without living in a training center and if anything this is probably a healthier route for most ppl.
Shawn142 wrote:
Current F1 world champ Max Verstappen got his first start in Formula 1 at 17. Now at the ripe age of 24 he's a 7 year...
Current F1 world champ Max Verstappen got his first start in Formula 1 at 17. Now at the ripe age of 24 he's a 7 year vet of the sport. While not 16, there have been probably half a dozen teenagers to race in F1. NASCAR only turns left so I know nothing about it and I'm not going to research it.
Max had a maturity beyond his years due to growing up in a racing/F1 environment. The vast majority of 17 year olds could not handle the rigors of racing at the top level, especially in the high-profile world of Formula 1. And as a teenager, Max not only competed, but won his first entry in the premier class.

As for SX/MX, only a select few reach the pinnacle of success, so starting at 16 or 18 may have little impact on long-term results. Since McGrath, how many racers have earned enough to retire (or even work part-time) after their on-track careers have ended? LeBlanc’s story mimics that of most racers; success in this sport is the aberration.
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10/5/2022 5:44am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2022 5:49am
JB 19 wrote:
And Ron Lechien, Damon Bradshaw, Robbie Reynard, Kevin Windham.....etc. Deegan isn't even close to those guys, but I do think Deegan is ready. In my opinion...
And Ron Lechien, Damon Bradshaw, Robbie Reynard, Kevin Windham.....etc. Deegan isn't even close to those guys, but I do think Deegan is ready.

In my opinion, the training facilities aren't to blame, but the parents who park their kids there for years are to blame. I think training is great in small doses. The current generation of kids just aren't good enough and that's why they aren't making it. It isn't the 30 year old guys that are still around that are the problem. Your reflexes will never be faster and your fear never lower than when you are 18 years old.

Speed is built by racing all the time on different tracks. Racing takes you out of your comfort zone and forces new speed. Training sharpens skills and technique. These current kids have all the skills in the world, but lack old school straight line speed. .... and yeah, those guys in the blurry YouTube videos from decades ago... they were fast.
i dont follow the sport as closely as i once did but this is how i feel too. the last 'next level' guy out there is/was Tomac..all these new kids?? dont see the big fuss about them. the talent really isnt there

as i mentioned earlier..the payoff/payout isnt there to be a top guy in this sport, IMO considering all the work that needs to be done.
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10/5/2022 6:52am
LoudLove wrote:
Max had a maturity beyond his years due to growing up in a racing/F1 environment. The vast majority of 17 year olds could not handle the...
Max had a maturity beyond his years due to growing up in a racing/F1 environment. The vast majority of 17 year olds could not handle the rigors of racing at the top level, especially in the high-profile world of Formula 1. And as a teenager, Max not only competed, but won his first entry in the premier class.

As for SX/MX, only a select few reach the pinnacle of success, so starting at 16 or 18 may have little impact on long-term results. Since McGrath, how many racers have earned enough to retire (or even work part-time) after their on-track careers have ended? LeBlanc’s story mimics that of most racers; success in this sport is the aberration.
Sorry to be pedantic but Max did not win his first F1 race, he DNF'd the 2015 Australian GP. He won his first race in Spain 2016 with Red Bull after being promoted from Toro Rosso.
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LoudLove
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10/5/2022 7:12am
LoudLove wrote:
Max had a maturity beyond his years due to growing up in a racing/F1 environment. The vast majority of 17 year olds could not handle the...
Max had a maturity beyond his years due to growing up in a racing/F1 environment. The vast majority of 17 year olds could not handle the rigors of racing at the top level, especially in the high-profile world of Formula 1. And as a teenager, Max not only competed, but won his first entry in the premier class.

As for SX/MX, only a select few reach the pinnacle of success, so starting at 16 or 18 may have little impact on long-term results. Since McGrath, how many racers have earned enough to retire (or even work part-time) after their on-track careers have ended? LeBlanc’s story mimics that of most racers; success in this sport is the aberration.
Sorry to be pedantic but Max did not win his first F1 race, he DNF'd the 2015 Australian GP. He won his first race in Spain...
Sorry to be pedantic but Max did not win his first F1 race, he DNF'd the 2015 Australian GP. He won his first race in Spain 2016 with Red Bull after being promoted from Toro Rosso.
Dang. That’s right. I completely forgot about Toro Rosso. Good call…
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