Leblanc Story: this is why the AMA needs to raise pro age to 18

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Leave Us To 10/4/2022 5:26am
10/4/2022 5:26am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 5:27am
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/4/2022 5:50am
10/4/2022 5:50am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 6:25am
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This would just punish the elite riders, and wouldn't change a thing for the others.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/4/2022 5:55am
10/4/2022 5:55am
They did this once before and guess what? It didn’t change a dang thing
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 10/4/2022 6:03am
10/4/2022 6:03am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 9:20pm
What’s always made me scratch my head is why so many parents with a deep well of resources at their disposal allow teams to dictate their kids career timelines, bike set up etc.

You can have Twisted, XPR etc. build you a pro level engine, Enzo/PC/FC/REP do your suspension etc. and you can build a bike as good or better than what Team Green or Star is going to give an amateur.

Your kid can win any amateur national on that bike, and if a paying pro ride is his goal, turn some heads on that same bike outdoors.

There are very wealthy families that have essentially given the reins of their own kid to be on a team. They are riding equipment they may not get along with, train/live somewhere they don’t desire, make undesirable career decisions due to opinion of the team/ sponsor influence etc. What is the actual benefit of an amateur ride if you have the funds to support an amateur program?

The bikes aren’t the secret sauce, and other than Star none of the teams have a coach/trainer/mentor for the young bucks.
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Snapper
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Snapper 10/4/2022 6:12am
10/4/2022 6:12am
Seems like more recently there has been an influx of kids turning pro and then disappearing after a season or two for whatever reason. Something needs to change. But I don't think it will.
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JBlain619
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JBlain619 10/4/2022 6:19am
10/4/2022 6:19am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 6:41am
I disagree with the minimum age but IMO if they don't change the maximum age(23 is too young, 28 IMO would be a good age) for the 250 class, you will see more of these type of situations.
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b_kowalsk
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b_kowalsk 10/4/2022 6:29am
10/4/2022 6:29am
125 class needs to be brought back for younger riders. This is a bigger problem but a whole separate topic.
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SGoodman
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SGoodman 10/4/2022 7:04am
10/4/2022 7:04am
I have a bigger problem with all the kids in training facilities.... all these kids wasting their childhoods for no good reason, other than for a couple of them are used to make Feld and MXSports millions upon millions of dollars... leaving them to live out their lives with busted up minds and bodies (and with jack diddly for cash)...
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swe292
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swe292 10/4/2022 7:06am
10/4/2022 7:06am
SGoodman wrote:
I have a bigger problem with all the kids in training facilities.... all these kids wasting their childhoods for no good reason, other than for a...
I have a bigger problem with all the kids in training facilities.... all these kids wasting their childhoods for no good reason, other than for a couple of them are used to make Feld and MXSports millions upon millions of dollars... leaving them to live out their lives with busted up minds and bodies (and with jack diddly for cash)...
i also think these training facilities leaves us with less talented riders rising to the top...
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Hudd_421
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Hudd_421 10/4/2022 7:08am
10/4/2022 7:08am
No one is forcing these parents and kids to do anything...
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Alan Dove
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Alan Dove 10/4/2022 7:12am
10/4/2022 7:12am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 7:15am
Leave Us To wrote:
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
Comparing to F1 is probably not the best route. 4-wheel motorsport works very different to dirtbike racing. The FIA doesn't ban 16 years from racing professionally either. You can earn money and do well for yourself in a whole number of categories outside of F1. The age limit for F1 was raised because of Max Verstappen... who happens to be the best driver in F1 right now after he 'skipped' some FIA categories (namely F2/GP2). The system is coming under serious scrutiny.
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sbarrington314 10/4/2022 7:19am
10/4/2022 7:19am
GrapeApe wrote:
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This...
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This would just punish the elite riders, and wouldn't change a thing for the others.
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
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JazzyJJ
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JazzyJJ 10/4/2022 7:21am
10/4/2022 7:21am
Leave Us To wrote:
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
Alan Dove wrote:
Comparing to F1 is probably not the best route. 4-wheel motorsport works very different to dirtbike racing. The FIA doesn't ban 16 years from racing professionally...
Comparing to F1 is probably not the best route. 4-wheel motorsport works very different to dirtbike racing. The FIA doesn't ban 16 years from racing professionally either. You can earn money and do well for yourself in a whole number of categories outside of F1. The age limit for F1 was raised because of Max Verstappen... who happens to be the best driver in F1 right now after he 'skipped' some FIA categories (namely F2/GP2). The system is coming under serious scrutiny.
And let's not act like the FIA is doing what's best for anyone outside of themselves and their own bank accounts. If you need a clear example, see the current Colton Herta clusterfuck
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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 10/4/2022 7:23am
10/4/2022 7:23am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2022 7:31am
b_kowalsk wrote:
125 class needs to be brought back for younger riders. This is a bigger problem but a whole separate topic.
Excellent point If only we had a 16 to 18 class on two strokes but that's a dream in 2022. More realistic is 250F's with only exhaust and suspension mods with stock motors but again, I'm dreaming. Still would be great for young racers to test the waters without families having to spend major bucks on maintaining today's highly modified, high revving 250s. Why break the bank for a few years only for it to turn out a pro career is not in the cards for the rider.
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clarkgray432
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clarkgray432 10/4/2022 7:25am
10/4/2022 7:25am
sbarrington314 wrote:
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
Deegan is 100% not the most ready a 16 year old there's ever been. You forgot about js7, RC, Jett Larence, and plenty more. Deegan might be the most ready YouTuber there's ever been. 
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swe292
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swe292 10/4/2022 7:27am
10/4/2022 7:27am
sbarrington314 wrote:
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
clarkgray432 wrote:
Deegan is 100% not the most ready a 16 year old there's ever been. You forgot about js7, RC, Jett Larence, and plenty more. Deegan might...
Deegan is 100% not the most ready a 16 year old there's ever been. You forgot about js7, RC, Jett Larence, and plenty more. Deegan might be the most ready YouTuber there's ever been. 
yea when it comes down to it deegan isn't really that special. he's just a solid young rider.
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Landshark 10/4/2022 7:29am
10/4/2022 7:29am
Has anyone ever gone the way of Serena / Venus / Richard Williams tennis family. Dude went against traditional tennis feeder system and held girls out. They just trained and practiced with high level coaching, etc... until they decided to pursue pro career.

Would be like family stays in CA and just hammers coaching and training until pulling trigger on pro tour. I bet this could be done!!
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/4/2022 7:31am
10/4/2022 7:31am
GrapeApe wrote:
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This...
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This would just punish the elite riders, and wouldn't change a thing for the others.
sbarrington314 wrote:
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
Maybe it was too soon for Deegan, who knows. From my perspective he was so comfortable in his first race that he attempted something that none of the other pros were doing and that had a terrible risk/reward ratio. Compare that to Vohland who struggles with basic SX track obstacles.

Imagine if Deegan was forced to race amateur races for two more years before being allowed to turn pro?
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/4/2022 7:32am
10/4/2022 7:32am
GrapeApe wrote:
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This...
Is this a problem that needs to be addressed? Other than Vohland, I can't think of anyone that was moved up before they were ready. This would just punish the elite riders, and wouldn't change a thing for the others.
sbarrington314 wrote:
Deegan? And he's probably the most ready a 16 year old has ever been. But still almost ended his career in his first pro race.
And he had a big get off at Mini O’s last year. People crash on dirt bikes.
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DunnySeat
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DunnySeat 10/4/2022 7:33am
10/4/2022 7:33am
Snapper wrote:
Seems like more recently there has been an influx of kids turning pro and then disappearing after a season or two for whatever reason. Something needs...
Seems like more recently there has been an influx of kids turning pro and then disappearing after a season or two for whatever reason. Something needs to change. But I don't think it will.
There have always been a class of amateurs who turn pro and never pan out, this difference is now a lot more are given factory rides. I hate it that it doesn't pan out for some of these kids but the reality is more are given a shot on a factory bike than 10-15 years ago.

I grew up racing amatuer around the same time as guys like Josh Lichtle, Bobby Kiniry, Sean Hackley, Brian Johnson, Jase Lewis, Matt Boni, Matt Lemoine, Dan Truman, Donnie McGourty, Kyle Meeks, Shaun Skinner etc. Those guys never even had a crack at a factory pro ride and were all highly successful amateurs. The cream always rises to the top. If you're good enough, you'll get there. Some guys are willing to tough it out and try as a privateer and others give up. No rule is going to change that. I hate that Matt is giving up, but he doesn't have what it takes to make it as a pro or doesn't want to tough it out. That's part of life. Welcome to the real world with the rest of us.
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sbarrington314 10/4/2022 7:42am
10/4/2022 7:42am
GrapeApe wrote:
Maybe it was too soon for Deegan, who knows. From my perspective he was so comfortable in his first race that he attempted something that none...
Maybe it was too soon for Deegan, who knows. From my perspective he was so comfortable in his first race that he attempted something that none of the other pros were doing and that had a terrible risk/reward ratio. Compare that to Vohland who struggles with basic SX track obstacles.

Imagine if Deegan was forced to race amateur races for two more years before being allowed to turn pro?
I don't think it would be that bad of a thing if he continued to race am. He'd be racing Ryder D, Chance Hymas, etc in A class next year. Then lets say he wins (likely), then the following year he runs #1 and tries to back it up with another round of top kids coming from B to A.
ElliotB16
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ElliotB16 10/4/2022 7:45am
10/4/2022 7:45am
But he is 18 now.

Motocross is a grind. He’s basically been a pro am the last 10 or so years. No telling how much money was spent in the process
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nrosso391 10/4/2022 7:46am
10/4/2022 7:46am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
They did this once before and guess what? It didn’t change a dang thing
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
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731chopper
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731chopper 10/4/2022 7:48am
10/4/2022 7:48am
Leave Us To wrote:
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age...
F1 and NASCAR don't allow 16 year olds to race professionally so why should MX/SX? Until we have a shortage of home schooled children, the age limit needs to be raised. Give them a couple more years to mature and possibly extend their pro careers by starting later.

I also support the MX2 age rule but could flex to 25 years old and out.
250 class isn’t comparable to Formula 1. More like Formula 3 which the minimum age actually is 16 or Formula 2 which the minimum age is 17.
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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 10/4/2022 7:56am
10/4/2022 7:56am
nrosso391 wrote:
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or...
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went back to 16. Been wrong before so those with better memories, please chime in.
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Leave Us To 10/4/2022 7:58am
10/4/2022 7:58am
ElliotB16 wrote:
But he is 18 now. Motocross is a grind. He’s basically been a pro am the last 10 or so years. No telling how much money...
But he is 18 now.

Motocross is a grind. He’s basically been a pro am the last 10 or so years. No telling how much money was spent in the process
and in a year he will be 19.

We will never know if his story would be different, if Matt would have turned pro at a later age.
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Hudd_421
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Hudd_421 10/4/2022 8:00am
10/4/2022 8:00am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
They did this once before and guess what? It didn’t change a dang thing
nrosso391 wrote:
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or...
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
It should be on the rider and parents to decide whether their kid is ready or mature enough.
AMA shouldn't be making rules, because in the case of RC/RV/Alessi/Jett they were just fine...Stop trying to make government bigger and let people live/die by their own decisions.
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Motodave15
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Motodave15 10/4/2022 8:02am
10/4/2022 8:02am
Landshark wrote:
Has anyone ever gone the way of Serena / Venus / Richard Williams tennis family. Dude went against traditional tennis feeder system and held girls out...
Has anyone ever gone the way of Serena / Venus / Richard Williams tennis family. Dude went against traditional tennis feeder system and held girls out. They just trained and practiced with high level coaching, etc... until they decided to pursue pro career.

Would be like family stays in CA and just hammers coaching and training until pulling trigger on pro tour. I bet this could be done!!
I'd love to see this happen in our sport.. Its sorely needed.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/4/2022 8:09am
10/4/2022 8:09am
GrapeApe wrote:
Maybe it was too soon for Deegan, who knows. From my perspective he was so comfortable in his first race that he attempted something that none...
Maybe it was too soon for Deegan, who knows. From my perspective he was so comfortable in his first race that he attempted something that none of the other pros were doing and that had a terrible risk/reward ratio. Compare that to Vohland who struggles with basic SX track obstacles.

Imagine if Deegan was forced to race amateur races for two more years before being allowed to turn pro?
sbarrington314 wrote:
I don't think it would be that bad of a thing if he continued to race am. He'd be racing Ryder D, Chance Hymas, etc in...
I don't think it would be that bad of a thing if he continued to race am. He'd be racing Ryder D, Chance Hymas, etc in A class next year. Then lets say he wins (likely), then the following year he runs #1 and tries to back it up with another round of top kids coming from B to A.
Are you okay taking away 2 years of earning capacity from a career that is only about 10 years long? If their ready, let them get on with their career. If their not ready, hopefully they have parents and managers watching out for their best interests.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/4/2022 8:12am
10/4/2022 8:12am
nrosso391 wrote:
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or...
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
Leave Us To wrote:
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went...
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went back to 16. Been wrong before so those with better memories, please chime in.
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed another year of seasoning lol
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/4/2022 8:15am
10/4/2022 8:15am
nrosso391 wrote:
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or...
Exactly. And guess who was the first big name to come thru on that "must be 18" program.....Forkner. And look how great he rides. Crash or crash. No in between. Its not a age problem. Its a maturity problem.
Leave Us To wrote:
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went...
As I recall the rule never made it past 17. KTM was the force behind that as they were bringing Roczen over then the rule went back to 16. Been wrong before so those with better memories, please chime in.
GrapeApe wrote:
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed...
Wasn't it just before Cianciarulo turned 16 that the rule changed back to 16? Speaking of, he might be a good example of someone that needed another year of seasoning lol
I disagree, he turned pro in outdoors 13 and won like 2 of his 3 first supercrosses in 14. He was ready to go.
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