Lake Mead levels has me wondering if there's any imminent danger to track watering in the west.

DonM
Profile picture for user DonM
Posts
6753
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
DonM 9/5/2022 8:41pm
9/5/2022 8:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2022 8:42pm
ProKawi24 wrote:
I'll just leave this right here... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/09/05/567191/s1200_1.jpg[/img]
I'll just leave this right here...


He deleted a post?….can’t put my finger on it but somewhere I remember someone else doing that…..
DonM
Profile picture for user DonM
Posts
6753
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
DonM 9/5/2022 8:47pm
9/5/2022 8:47pm
Isn’t it about time for your next name…your getting close to your 100 posts in a day count….
SLAPAHO
Profile picture for user SLAPAHO
Posts
1555
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Newport Beach, CA US
Fantasy
638th
SLAPAHO 9/5/2022 8:47pm
9/5/2022 8:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2022 9:34pm
..

The Shop

See All »
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
ML512 9/5/2022 8:53pm
9/5/2022 8:53pm
Bye bye…what an annoyance.
13
Boomslang
Profile picture for user Boomslang
Posts
6923
Joined
12/22/2018
Location
Cape Town ZA
Fantasy
548th
Boomslang 9/5/2022 10:14pm
9/5/2022 10:14pm
rucka356 wrote:
Why aren't they building any desalinization plants to pump ocean water into the lake/river/water systems?
Desalinization is expensive. We looked into that option here in SA when we had servere droughts.
1
sandtrack315
Profile picture for user sandtrack315
Posts
2550
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA US
sandtrack315 9/6/2022 3:57am
9/6/2022 3:57am
Cruel that the places out west that you can ride year round don’t get much rain, and the northeast is only seeing increasing rain amounts but it’s too cold to ride here 3 months of the year. I get why pros live in Florida / Georgia / Carolinas.
1
ProKawi24
Profile picture for user ProKawi24
Posts
1759
Joined
2/20/2018
Location
Herald, CA US
ProKawi24 9/11/2022 5:29pm
9/11/2022 5:29pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Well it’s not Lake Mead related but Club Moto in Livermore, CA is out of water. Great track, shame if it went under.

https://gofund.me/baf94ddf

Damn that would really suck. Probably my favorite track as a kid, the dirt was amazing. They had a huge uphill triple that took everything my 85 had to clear.
Frank Tuesday 9/12/2022 1:06pm
9/12/2022 1:06pm
rucka356 wrote:
Why aren't they building any desalinization plants to pump ocean water into the lake/river/water systems?
Desalination is relatively expensive, and takes massive amounts of energy. Why should we waste the energy so that people can play golf, have green lawns, and grow water intensive crops in the middle of the desert? Wasting resources so that people can continue their stupidity is not a good plan.
5
1
mtl
Profile picture for user mtl
Posts
1231
Joined
9/26/2011
Location
CA US
mtl 9/12/2022 2:46pm
9/12/2022 2:46pm
rucka356 wrote:
Why aren't they building any desalinization plants to pump ocean water into the lake/river/water systems?
Frank Tuesday wrote:
Desalination is relatively expensive, and takes massive amounts of energy. Why should we waste the energy so that people can play golf, have green lawns, and...
Desalination is relatively expensive, and takes massive amounts of energy. Why should we waste the energy so that people can play golf, have green lawns, and grow water intensive crops in the middle of the desert? Wasting resources so that people can continue their stupidity is not a good plan.
Totally agree with you.

One thing that does come to mind is leveraging solar to power desalination (like many people do with pool heaters, solar panels that power an electric water heater). Not sure what the size of a panel would need to be to support desalination vs heating water but they seem similar...
1
TripleFive 9/12/2022 2:58pm
9/12/2022 2:58pm
rucka356 wrote:
Why aren't they building any desalinization plants to pump ocean water into the lake/river/water systems?
because people are too scared of atomic energy.
7
Black Diesel Bomber 9/12/2022 3:22pm
9/12/2022 3:22pm
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
5
3
LungButter
Profile picture for user LungButter
Posts
5680
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
LungButter 9/12/2022 3:40pm
9/12/2022 3:40pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems.....

Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any issues either....

/s
7
1
Black Diesel Bomber 9/12/2022 3:46pm
9/12/2022 3:46pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
LungButter wrote:
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems..... Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any...
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems.....

Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any issues either....

/s
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
2
4
ItakePhotos 9/12/2022 3:52pm
9/12/2022 3:52pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
There are just too many good reasons reservoirs are not the solution, particularly in the west. Essentially that is what all these dried-up lakes are, so I can't see how building more would help. These catch points are exactly where they should be in a watershed, we have just maxed them out, period. The population is to blame more than climate change.
3
byke
Profile picture for user byke
Posts
1423
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA US
byke 9/12/2022 4:00pm
9/12/2022 4:00pm
rucka356 wrote:
Why aren't they building any desalinization plants to pump ocean water into the lake/river/water systems?
Why do people that live in the desert wonder why there's no water and expect everyone else to move heaven and earth to bring it to them? I dunno, just the way it is I guess.
14
1

Pit Row

See All »
Black Diesel Bomber 9/12/2022 4:03pm
9/12/2022 4:03pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
ItakePhotos wrote:
There are just too many good reasons reservoirs are not the solution, particularly in the west. Essentially that is what all these dried-up lakes are, so...
There are just too many good reasons reservoirs are not the solution, particularly in the west. Essentially that is what all these dried-up lakes are, so I can't see how building more would help. These catch points are exactly where they should be in a watershed, we have just maxed them out, period. The population is to blame more than climate change.
They can capture a lot of water they need in the urban areas and cities where the runoff systems were designed to expedite the water to the ocean to prevent flooding. Now they need to build systems to siphon that rain water and hold it somewhere. The LA, San Gabriel, and Santa Ana rivers (man made) move a ton of water into the oceans every winter. It could easily be engineered but politics get in the way and someone will need to make money off some sort of other expensive solution.

1
2
ItakePhotos 9/12/2022 4:22pm
9/12/2022 4:22pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
ItakePhotos wrote:
There are just too many good reasons reservoirs are not the solution, particularly in the west. Essentially that is what all these dried-up lakes are, so...
There are just too many good reasons reservoirs are not the solution, particularly in the west. Essentially that is what all these dried-up lakes are, so I can't see how building more would help. These catch points are exactly where they should be in a watershed, we have just maxed them out, period. The population is to blame more than climate change.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
They can capture a lot of water they need in the urban areas and cities where the runoff systems were designed to expedite the water to...
They can capture a lot of water they need in the urban areas and cities where the runoff systems were designed to expedite the water to the ocean to prevent flooding. Now they need to build systems to siphon that rain water and hold it somewhere. The LA, San Gabriel, and Santa Ana rivers (man made) move a ton of water into the oceans every winter. It could easily be engineered but politics get in the way and someone will need to make money off some sort of other expensive solution.

The CO river used to flow to the ocean now it is essentially dried up, that is the problem with this idea, it just keeps going inland. You are really talking about water running west off the Sierras and most of that water is being diverted in some way or another already, think about where the Bay Area gets most of their water, it is from the San Joaquin Valley, SoCal, and Mead, it's all the same, they all needed water brought in 50-75 years ago and we just kept building. Most of the west is already water banking and using grey water treatment to try and help.

Look at any one of these reports, pick a year in the past and tell me if they did not predict this many times over. Vegas is one of the big hogs, same with a lot of AZ. We keep building while carrying capacity has long been surpassed.

https://spl.cde.state.co.us/artemis/urcserials/urc11internet/
4
soggy
Profile picture for user soggy
Posts
4885
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
Fantasy
3846th
soggy 9/12/2022 4:32pm
9/12/2022 4:32pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
LungButter wrote:
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems..... Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any...
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems.....

Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any issues either....

/s
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
We have dammed rivers all over the west for this. You can only go so far.
DaveB771
Profile picture for user DaveB771
Posts
185
Joined
7/27/2011
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
DaveB771 9/12/2022 4:36pm
9/12/2022 4:36pm
GateDropGoGo wrote:
Ehh, water is overrated. They have options, like using the out of date hand sanitizer sitting on pallets and filling up warehouses all over the west...
Ehh, water is overrated.

They have options, like using the out of date hand sanitizer sitting on pallets and filling up warehouses all over the west. They, literally, can't give the stuff away.

I say water tracks with old hand sanitizer!!!

Whistling
Dirt.Squirt wrote:
They should water the tracks with old engine oil. Stays in the soil way longer Wink
Leaves a long-lasting scar if you crash on a track "watered" with used engine oil, and that stuff sings like the dickens.
1
LungButter
Profile picture for user LungButter
Posts
5680
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
LungButter 9/12/2022 4:54pm
9/12/2022 4:54pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
Or...you know....maybe something like Salmon....

I guess if you consider one of the most iconic fish on the planet something that only tree huggers care about then more power to ya...

Just giving you a hard time. In all seriousness, some good points have been brought up in this thread. Who knows what the right answer is...whatever it is, it's gonna hurt somebody somehow.
2
rucka356
Profile picture for user rucka356
Posts
1043
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Knoxville, TN US
rucka356 9/12/2022 5:23pm
9/12/2022 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2022 5:24pm
Seems like desalinization would help a lot of people other than golfers..... Motocrossers, boaters, people that like to shower and wash their car, etc.... Besides don't California's like paying taxes? Just add a new water tax to cover it :-).
1
APLMAN99
Profile picture for user APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
APLMAN99 9/12/2022 6:48pm
9/12/2022 6:48pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing...
The water is there, they just need to redirect and capture it before it flows into the Oceans. There are trillions of gallons of water flowing down those rivers and it's time to start capturing it in reservoirs.
LungButter wrote:
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems..... Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any...
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems.....

Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any issues either....

/s
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
That may sound easy, and I probably thought pretty much the same thing a few decades ago. But living in this area that is reliant upon dams and reservoirs, I’ve learned that it is incredibly more complex than that. It took a long time for our local public utility districts and other river stakeholders to see how much they can ruin ecosystems, but thankfully they began some very extensive mitigation efforts that have helped. The Snake River still has some dams that don’t function very well and destroy fish runs, and those are likely to be removed over the next 20 years.

Also, urban runoff is basically toxic. You wouldn’t want to irrigate with the runoff from streets and parking lots, let alone drink it.
3
SLAPAHO
Profile picture for user SLAPAHO
Posts
1555
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Newport Beach, CA US
Fantasy
638th
SLAPAHO 9/12/2022 7:10pm
9/12/2022 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2022 7:21pm
rucka356 wrote:
Seems like desalinization would help a lot of people other than golfers..... Motocrossers, boaters, people that like to shower and wash their car, etc.... Besides don't...
Seems like desalinization would help a lot of people other than golfers..... Motocrossers, boaters, people that like to shower and wash their car, etc.... Besides don't California's like paying taxes? Just add a new water tax to cover it :-).
You are correct. A big plan is supposedly in the works for exactly that. And of course we will end up paying for it with more taxes.
Believe me, we’ll never run out of water. The corrupt people that run this state will never allow it.
Desalinization is a big part of it, but there’s more involved.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-unveils-water-strategy-plan…

And not every county in the state is in the same situation. I happen to live in OC, we have a huge underground water resource, we don’t live by the la county rules. We’ll see how this works out in the next year or so, but I don’t see my water hose getting shut off anytime soon.

Ps. Why is this even in the moto forum?
This is non moto disguised. 👎
2
2
Black Diesel Bomber 9/12/2022 7:38pm
9/12/2022 7:38pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
LungButter wrote:
Or...you know....maybe something like Salmon.... I guess if you consider one of the most iconic fish on the planet something that only tree huggers care about...
Or...you know....maybe something like Salmon....

I guess if you consider one of the most iconic fish on the planet something that only tree huggers care about then more power to ya...

Just giving you a hard time. In all seriousness, some good points have been brought up in this thread. Who knows what the right answer is...whatever it is, it's gonna hurt somebody somehow.
I understand there can be environmental issues with redirecting the flow of rivers and a big part of our problem is water hogs in the deserts. If everyone would come together and focus on this as everyone's top priority then we could easily engineer the proper systems to catch and distribute rainfall/snowpack without affecting the environment. But the problem is politics and state lines....so this isn't going to happen.

If we can send Rovers to Mars and explore the planet for the last 10years I promise you we can engineer a proper water flow and distribution system.


2
Black Diesel Bomber 9/12/2022 7:42pm
9/12/2022 7:42pm
LungButter wrote:
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems..... Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any...
Yeah....a bunch of dammed up rivers don't cause any major environmental problems.....

Let's keep as much water as possible from reaching the ocean...that shouldn't cause any issues either....

/s
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That may sound easy, and I probably thought pretty much the same thing a few decades ago. But living in this area that is reliant upon...
That may sound easy, and I probably thought pretty much the same thing a few decades ago. But living in this area that is reliant upon dams and reservoirs, I’ve learned that it is incredibly more complex than that. It took a long time for our local public utility districts and other river stakeholders to see how much they can ruin ecosystems, but thankfully they began some very extensive mitigation efforts that have helped. The Snake River still has some dams that don’t function very well and destroy fish runs, and those are likely to be removed over the next 20 years.

Also, urban runoff is basically toxic. You wouldn’t want to irrigate with the runoff from streets and parking lots, let alone drink it.
It's already being done on a small scale here. Read:

"You see a storm year like this and you see all the water that ends up going through the LA River and Ballona Creek and Dominguez Channel, and you say, "Wow. That could have been our water supply for the next year," Gold said.

https://www.kpcc.org/2017-01-23/how-much-storm-water-is-la-catching
TheGetFresh
Profile picture for user TheGetFresh
Posts
1656
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
COOL GY
Fantasy
2551st
TheGetFresh 9/12/2022 11:41pm
9/12/2022 11:41pm
They’ll take water rights away from any type of Motorsport without batting an eye, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before they shut down a golf course in Vegas or Palm Springs. I personally know people living in the American desert who limit their showers to 5 minutes to save the fish and then spend a weekend a month driving electric carts around an 18 hole life size diorama of the Scottish highlands.

A desert golf course uses about 750,000 to 1,000,000 per day. By comparison, a typical American household uses around 100,000 gallons in an entire year.

Nuke the golf courses.
11
3
APLMAN99
Profile picture for user APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
APLMAN99 9/13/2022 6:53am
9/13/2022 6:53am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to...
I didn't say all of it. Just a little here and a little there with proper engineering will do the job and won't cause harm to the environment other than affect some species of some rodent that the tree huggers are trying to protect.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That may sound easy, and I probably thought pretty much the same thing a few decades ago. But living in this area that is reliant upon...
That may sound easy, and I probably thought pretty much the same thing a few decades ago. But living in this area that is reliant upon dams and reservoirs, I’ve learned that it is incredibly more complex than that. It took a long time for our local public utility districts and other river stakeholders to see how much they can ruin ecosystems, but thankfully they began some very extensive mitigation efforts that have helped. The Snake River still has some dams that don’t function very well and destroy fish runs, and those are likely to be removed over the next 20 years.

Also, urban runoff is basically toxic. You wouldn’t want to irrigate with the runoff from streets and parking lots, let alone drink it.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
It's already being done on a small scale here. Read: "You see a storm year like this and you see all the water that ends up...
It's already being done on a small scale here. Read:

"You see a storm year like this and you see all the water that ends up going through the LA River and Ballona Creek and Dominguez Channel, and you say, "Wow. That could have been our water supply for the next year," Gold said.

https://www.kpcc.org/2017-01-23/how-much-storm-water-is-la-catching
That sounds somewhat promising, but you have to wonder just how much water truly goes to the aquifer instead of evaporation. For truly filtered water, it would take a long time to work through the ground to an aquifer and produce potable water. If it's just for irrigation, then probably not as essential that it is as pure.

But it sounds like the system still relies on dams, and dams are both fantastic and ruinous at the same time. They are great for water storage and generating electricity. They wreak havoc on fish and wildlife pretty often. If the dams are initially built or retrofitted to keep as many fish able to swim upstream as possible, along with providing them good spawning grounds.

While it may seem silly to some, ruining an ecosystem causes ripple effects that go far up and down the food chain. Once lost, it is very hard to get back.
8
2

Post a reply to: Lake Mead levels has me wondering if there's any imminent danger to track watering in the west.