LL Reg Pala DQs

Helda
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6/13/2019 5:26pm
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money...
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money event such as Loretta's, don't cry when you get caught though you knew the risk. Anyone remember Tony Alessi getting Chatfields super mini back in the day? Play asshole games get asshole rewards.
Chatfield got Alessi's supermini FWIW not the other way around.
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77Moto
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6/13/2019 5:38pm
DC wrote:
Anyone who has scored pro SX/MX points is limited to the +25 and +40 and +50 vet classes at Loretta Lynn's. They are not allowed in...
Anyone who has scored pro SX/MX points is limited to the +25 and +40 and +50 vet classes at Loretta Lynn's. They are not allowed in the +30 class or the +45 Sportsman classes.

DC
Racer X
77Moto wrote:
"Amateur Nationals" You should drop the Amateur name because it is false. This is like Floyd Mayweather retiring at 51-0 record or whatever it is now...
"Amateur Nationals" You should drop the Amateur name because it is false. This is like Floyd Mayweather retiring at 51-0 record or whatever it is now, and coming back to box Dads who used to box in high school.

Plus, Once you take purse money, even if you are 6 years old, by definition, you are a professional for life.

It's a shame that you even allow people who skirt the rules by allowing children getting paid with houses, motorhomes, cars, trucks, etc.
It's why the olympics are total bullshit now also. But it is what it is when it comes to that. You're not getting paid to race, you're getting paid to endorse.

Professional
2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime or competing as an unpaid amateur.
"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried, non amateur, full-time
"a professional tennis player"



DC wrote:
I appreciate your opinion on this, but the idea that almost any sport past high school athletics is truly amateur at the elite level is out-dated...
I appreciate your opinion on this, but the idea that almost any sport past high school athletics is truly amateur at the elite level is out-dated, and as you infer, the Olympics are as professional an event as the NBA Finals that are going down right now. Motorsports operate on sponsorship, and as a result, some OEMs and aftermarket sponsors pay top young riders, either in cash or contingency or other forms. Unless you want to go on to play an NCAA sport, there is nothing stopping you from taking that support. In motocross, if you race for a cash purse, then you are an expert, not necessarily a pro. What make you a pro in SX/MX in America is a professional license, and no one racing in any class at Loretta Lynn's other than in 250 Pro Sport and Open Pro Sport has a current, active AMA Pro license. But once you've dropped that license for one full year, which makes you a former pro, you can participate again at Loretta Lynn's. But if you scored points in an AMA Pro National or made a main event in AMA Supercross, you are only eligible for the +25, +40 and +50 classes, but not the +30 and +45 Sportsmen classes...

To me, it still is an amateur national, because I believe riders who no longer have a professional license are no longer professional riders. They are welcome to participate in this program, and we enjoy seeing them out there. And yes, when Ricky Carmichael and Robbie Reynard show up in a vet class, it's like Floyd Mayweather fighting in a bar... But remember that the guy who got second to RC in '12 was named Andrew Matusek, who never scored a point as an AMA Pro rider. The guy who got third? Robbie Reynard. Turns out that sometimes the Mayweathers of the world get caught off guard in these amateur bar fights...

DC
Racer X
I get your point and understand it all.
I've been on the losing end of a protest before though, so I've seen the bad end also. Not in motocross, but motorsports racing nonetheless.

In fact, one time an "Open Class 125-500 with 150% payback" winner locally specifically said he could not take the money for fear of losing amateur status. And today with the net and everyone with a camera, probably a good thing because that could come back to bite you.


Bobby M recently posted on here this story from your site from when the net was pretty young and not everyone had a camera in their pocket.

That was Chatfields buddy from England.

ATTACK MX PROMOTIONS.
February 15, 2005

Attack MX will DQ winner and give grand prize to runner-up
By Davey Coombs

Racer X broke the story yesterday that David Snow, the winner of the
$40,000 Ford F-350 pickup truck in the first-ever Attack MX race in
Arizona, was actually Alex Snow, a pro-caliber rider from Great
Britain who entered the 125cc Novice class for this high-profile race.
A positive ID was made of Alex Snow by several readers in England when
a photo of the Attack MX winner by Bobby Myers was posted on our
website.

Now, after following up with the information and speaking with several
parties—including the Snow family back in England and their hosts, the
Chatfields in Texas—Attack MX has asked that the truck be returned
immediately so that it can be awarded to the rightful winner, event
runner-up Nick Bussy of California. Short reiterated his company’s
pledge to be diligent in checking the backgrounds and qualifications
of all competitors at future Attack MX races. Attack MX also hopes the
truck is returned in brand-new condition in time to present to Bussy
at their next race, which is set for February 25-27 at Verde Valley
MotoPlex in Arizona. (For more information on that event, visit www.attackmx.com.)

“Attack MX had bought a trailer to haul the truck from the dealership
to the event so that it would be brand-new, and they want it just like
that when we get it back to give to Nick Bussy,” said Short.

As for Snow, his father, David, expressed deep regret over the whole
situation when contacted at home in England. “I think it’s a bit of
naiveté on Alex’s part, and maybe as well as the others with him, but
boys will be boys, and we’re just really sad that it all happened like
this,” said Mr. Snow. “He’s a good boy, and he just wants to win. He
wanted to ride in America, and he had a deal to ride this one race.
I’m not sure he knew what he had gotten into, and we just want to set
the record straight.”

Mr. Snow also explained that the U.S. definition of what makes a rider
a “pro” is much different than what it is there. “We buy his bikes and
he gets no wages, and when he races for a little bit of prize money,
that’s really all he gets,” explained Mr. Snow. But he also explained
that Alex Snow is not a novice by any definition.
“We really learned a
lesson, and we want to come back and do some more riding, maybe in the
fall. Only this time, we will make sure we have all of our facts
correct before we even leave the UK.

“We hadn’t done our homework, and we couldn’t believe it when Alex
texted us Sunday night at one in the morning and said, ‘Dad, I won a
pickup.’ We couldn’t believe it.” Mr. Snow stressed that Alex never
meant to keep the truck, that he was to give it to the people who got
him over to the U.S. in the first place. Now he fully expects the
truck to be handed to the rightful owner as soon as possible. “I
wouldn’t want Alex to have something that he did not deserve,” he
said. “We’re a little bit sad about it all, and the lad who finished
second deserves this prize.”

As for why Alex rode under the name David Snow, the father explained
that his son has a deal to race Suzukis in England this season and
that he did not want his sponsor to know he was riding a different
brand. Ironically, he later found out that it was not a problem to
ride a different brand outside the UK.








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oldblood
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6/13/2019 5:48pm
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money...
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money event such as Loretta's, don't cry when you get caught though you knew the risk. Anyone remember Tony Alessi getting Chatfields super mini back in the day? Play asshole games get asshole rewards.
Helda wrote:
Chatfield got Alessi's supermini FWIW not the other way around.
Pic of the bike?
mx317
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6/13/2019 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2019 5:54pm
77Moto wrote:
I get your point and understand it all. I've been on the losing end of a protest before though, so I've seen the bad end also...
I get your point and understand it all.
I've been on the losing end of a protest before though, so I've seen the bad end also. Not in motocross, but motorsports racing nonetheless.

In fact, one time an "Open Class 125-500 with 150% payback" winner locally specifically said he could not take the money for fear of losing amateur status. And today with the net and everyone with a camera, probably a good thing because that could come back to bite you.


Bobby M recently posted on here this story from your site from when the net was pretty young and not everyone had a camera in their pocket.

That was Chatfields buddy from England.

ATTACK MX PROMOTIONS.
February 15, 2005

Attack MX will DQ winner and give grand prize to runner-up
By Davey Coombs

Racer X broke the story yesterday that David Snow, the winner of the
$40,000 Ford F-350 pickup truck in the first-ever Attack MX race in
Arizona, was actually Alex Snow, a pro-caliber rider from Great
Britain who entered the 125cc Novice class for this high-profile race.
A positive ID was made of Alex Snow by several readers in England when
a photo of the Attack MX winner by Bobby Myers was posted on our
website.

Now, after following up with the information and speaking with several
parties—including the Snow family back in England and their hosts, the
Chatfields in Texas—Attack MX has asked that the truck be returned
immediately so that it can be awarded to the rightful winner, event
runner-up Nick Bussy of California. Short reiterated his company’s
pledge to be diligent in checking the backgrounds and qualifications
of all competitors at future Attack MX races. Attack MX also hopes the
truck is returned in brand-new condition in time to present to Bussy
at their next race, which is set for February 25-27 at Verde Valley
MotoPlex in Arizona. (For more information on that event, visit www.attackmx.com.)

“Attack MX had bought a trailer to haul the truck from the dealership
to the event so that it would be brand-new, and they want it just like
that when we get it back to give to Nick Bussy,” said Short.

As for Snow, his father, David, expressed deep regret over the whole
situation when contacted at home in England. “I think it’s a bit of
naiveté on Alex’s part, and maybe as well as the others with him, but
boys will be boys, and we’re just really sad that it all happened like
this,” said Mr. Snow. “He’s a good boy, and he just wants to win. He
wanted to ride in America, and he had a deal to ride this one race.
I’m not sure he knew what he had gotten into, and we just want to set
the record straight.”

Mr. Snow also explained that the U.S. definition of what makes a rider
a “pro” is much different than what it is there. “We buy his bikes and
he gets no wages, and when he races for a little bit of prize money,
that’s really all he gets,” explained Mr. Snow. But he also explained
that Alex Snow is not a novice by any definition.
“We really learned a
lesson, and we want to come back and do some more riding, maybe in the
fall. Only this time, we will make sure we have all of our facts
correct before we even leave the UK.

“We hadn’t done our homework, and we couldn’t believe it when Alex
texted us Sunday night at one in the morning and said, ‘Dad, I won a
pickup.’ We couldn’t believe it.” Mr. Snow stressed that Alex never
meant to keep the truck, that he was to give it to the people who got
him over to the U.S. in the first place. Now he fully expects the
truck to be handed to the rightful owner as soon as possible. “I
wouldn’t want Alex to have something that he did not deserve,” he
said. “We’re a little bit sad about it all, and the lad who finished
second deserves this prize.”

As for why Alex rode under the name David Snow, the father explained
that his son has a deal to race Suzukis in England this season and
that he did not want his sponsor to know he was riding a different
brand. Ironically, he later found out that it was not a problem to
ride a different brand outside the UK.








Totally different scenario! He was an A rider riding C class to win a truck. You can never go from A (or pro) and back to C. There is a method on going from A back to B though.
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The Shop

KennyT
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6/13/2019 6:10pm
Arkmx wrote:
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his...
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his career.


Ronnie should have known the rules.


As for the 50cc riders... they are just riding what Dad and Mom put them on.... So little mini moto gets DQ'ed and does not understand... thinking it's the same bike I race back home.....


Too bad most of the Mini Dads have never raced themselfs... IMO... and it shows.


Or Mom could sleep with the AMA Referee and get JR into the race..... (Yes it has happened at LL's and not our crew) that's all I am going to say. ShockedShockedShocked


Looks like the rules may be getting inforced..... Whistling


.
Where do I apply to be a AMA referee?
77Moto
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6/13/2019 6:27pm
mx317 wrote:
Totally different scenario! He was an A rider riding C class to win a truck. You can never go from A (or pro) and back to...
Totally different scenario! He was an A rider riding C class to win a truck. You can never go from A (or pro) and back to C. There is a method on going from A back to B though.
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money"

Any D class rider could win a money race at a fair and forever be protested as a non amateur.













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early
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6/13/2019 6:31pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2019 6:31pm
77Moto wrote:
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money" Any D class rider...
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money"

Any D class rider could win a money race at a fair and forever be protested as a non amateur.













You're saying that it's because he has won prize money he can't enter the novice class and win a prize, not because he was far from a novice? That's not the way I read it. Seems like cherry picking to me.

"Racer X broke the story yesterday that David Snow, the winner of the
$40,000 Ford F-350 pickup truck in the first-ever Attack MX race in
Arizona, was actually Alex Snow, a pro-caliber rider from Great
Britain who entered the 125cc Novice class for this high-profile race."
1
77Moto
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6/13/2019 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2019 6:45pm
77Moto wrote:
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money" Any D class rider...
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money"

Any D class rider could win a money race at a fair and forever be protested as a non amateur.













early wrote:
You're saying that it's because he has won prize money he can't enter the novice class and win a prize, not because he was far from...
You're saying that it's because he has won prize money he can't enter the novice class and win a prize, not because he was far from a novice? That's not the way I read it. Seems like cherry picking to me.

"Racer X broke the story yesterday that David Snow, the winner of the
$40,000 Ford F-350 pickup truck in the first-ever Attack MX race in
Arizona, was actually Alex Snow, a pro-caliber rider from Great
Britain who entered the 125cc Novice class for this high-profile race."
Sure he cherry picked the class. That is a different infraction altogether on top of the fact that by definition if he took prize money, he is a professional.

Professional
2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime or competing as an unpaid amateur.

"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried, non amateur, full-time


Arkmx wrote:

Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his career.

Ronnie should have known the rules.


Yep.
And he also got purse money when he got those points. Which then qualified him as a pro.



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mikec265
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6/13/2019 7:03pm
I just wanted to get my kid off the PW asap because they're not meant for a LL type beating. Really I'm just glad he hasn't asked to race yet. We just ride at home mostly making the jumps bigger each year, and working on technique. Once in a while a drill for 5 minutes, but I don't want to take the fun out of it. We just want a fast "low maintenance" bike. I don't get the crazy mini dad crap.
oldblood
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6/13/2019 7:27pm
mikec265 wrote:
I just wanted to get my kid off the PW asap because they're not meant for a LL type beating. Really I'm just glad he hasn't...
I just wanted to get my kid off the PW asap because they're not meant for a LL type beating. Really I'm just glad he hasn't asked to race yet. We just ride at home mostly making the jumps bigger each year, and working on technique. Once in a while a drill for 5 minutes, but I don't want to take the fun out of it. We just want a fast "low maintenance" bike. I don't get the crazy mini dad crap.
The quest for excellence exists in every sport. You think moto dad's (and mom's) are crazy? You should check gymnastics parents, and football, baseball, modeling, acting, music, etc.
Complain about the system, but cheer for your favorite factory superstar(made from the system).

We're lucky to have the program we have. I don't know if it's perfect, but it is pretty damn good.
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shuggs
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6/13/2019 11:18pm
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money...
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money event such as Loretta's, don't cry when you get caught though you knew the risk. Anyone remember Tony Alessi getting Chatfields super mini back in the day? Play asshole games get asshole rewards.
Helda wrote:
Chatfield got Alessi's supermini FWIW not the other way around.
oldblood wrote:
Pic of the bike?
There was a thread on here a while back. Think TVarner built the bike and was pissed that bike went but someone found/ bought it and reunited him with it.
6/13/2019 11:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2019 11:36pm
Arkmx wrote:
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his...
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his career.


Ronnie should have known the rules.


As for the 50cc riders... they are just riding what Dad and Mom put them on.... So little mini moto gets DQ'ed and does not understand... thinking it's the same bike I race back home.....


Too bad most of the Mini Dads have never raced themselfs... IMO... and it shows.


Or Mom could sleep with the AMA Referee and get JR into the race..... (Yes it has happened at LL's and not our crew) that's all I am going to say. ShockedShockedShocked


Looks like the rules may be getting inforced..... Whistling


.
Jim, Jim, Jim! I hope Pam doesn't read this stuff. Oh yeah, I was the referee at Farm 14.
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mx317
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6/13/2019 11:38pm
mx317 wrote:
Totally different scenario! He was an A rider riding C class to win a truck. You can never go from A (or pro) and back to...
Totally different scenario! He was an A rider riding C class to win a truck. You can never go from A (or pro) and back to C. There is a method on going from A back to B though.
77Moto wrote:
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money" Any D class rider...
You don't understand that the key words in all of that was " he races for a little bit of Prize money"

Any D class rider could win a money race at a fair and forever be protested as a non amateur.













He was racing as a C rider. You can't go from A back to C period. It's been explained to you countless ways and you still don't get it, so I'm out as far as trying to explain it to you.
slipdog
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6/14/2019 6:49am
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
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early
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6/14/2019 6:57am
77Moto wrote:
Sure he cherry picked the class. That is a different infraction altogether on top of the fact that by definition if he took prize money, he...
Sure he cherry picked the class. That is a different infraction altogether on top of the fact that by definition if he took prize money, he is a professional.

Professional
2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime or competing as an unpaid amateur.

"a professional boxer"
synonyms: paid, salaried, non amateur, full-time


Arkmx wrote:

Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his career.

Ronnie should have known the rules.


Yep.
And he also got purse money when he got those points. Which then qualified him as a pro.



Only Snow's dad mentions anything about being a "pro" the attack MX promoters never said anything regarding being a pro only being way overqualified by skill level for the novice class according to that article.

I've won cash racing the beginner class in mountain bike races, does that make me a pro mountain biker?
mx317
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6/14/2019 7:01am
slipdog wrote:
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
I know nothing in the rule book that would exclude him or her.
GrapeApe
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6/14/2019 7:26am
slipdog wrote:
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
Will he race on bunk gear, or pharma grade test?
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GrapeApe
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6/14/2019 7:41am
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money...
When these dads have their 401k ridding on Johnny being the next ET, I get trying to find the edge. When it is a big money event such as Loretta's, don't cry when you get caught though you knew the risk. Anyone remember Tony Alessi getting Chatfields super mini back in the day? Play asshole games get asshole rewards.
Helda wrote:
Chatfield got Alessi's supermini FWIW not the other way around.
oldblood wrote:
Pic of the bike?
I have a picture of it stored in my mind, sitting in a barn in Greenville, TX.
yak651
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6/14/2019 7:45am
slipdog wrote:
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
What ever happened to the dude that raced the womens class?
mikec265
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6/14/2019 8:11am
slipdog wrote:
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
yak651 wrote:
What ever happened to the dude that raced the womens class?
The way things are going with public restrooms, isn't only fair if we can all race the women's class?
I'm offended.
Arkmx
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6/14/2019 9:24am
yak651 wrote:
What ever happened to the dude that raced the womens class?
Who.... Bruce Jenner...?

Silly
Arkmx
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6/14/2019 9:31am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2019 9:34am
Arkmx wrote:
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his...
Ronnie Jackson got DQ'ed in the +30 after winning the OA.... at the SC Regional at Farm 14 because he scored 3 SX points in his career.


Ronnie should have known the rules.


As for the 50cc riders... they are just riding what Dad and Mom put them on.... So little mini moto gets DQ'ed and does not understand... thinking it's the same bike I race back home.....


Too bad most of the Mini Dads have never raced themselfs... IMO... and it shows.


Or Mom could sleep with the AMA Referee and get JR into the race..... (Yes it has happened at LL's and not our crew) that's all I am going to say. ShockedShockedShocked


Looks like the rules may be getting inforced..... Whistling


.
Jim, Jim, Jim! I hope Pam doesn't read this stuff. Oh yeah, I was the referee at Farm 14.
She probably does... everyone knows you are a good man Mike... !

Crazy thing is I "heard" about the "Referee story" and come to find out I actually know of most of the peeps involved are.... like DOH...! Whistling


Not going to mention any names either...




You coming out to World Vets this year?

.
mx317
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6/14/2019 10:26am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2019 3:55pm
Getting prize money does not make you a pro for the 1000th time. You can be an A rider and get paid some purse money, but still be an amateur. I read what he wrote and what you wrote and you both are wrong. DC explained it also.
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early
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6/14/2019 11:14am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2019 11:14am
Did you not read where DC said being a pro in motocross means having a pro card, not winning purse money?
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mx317
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6/14/2019 11:19am
" In motocross, if you race for a cash purse, then you are an expert, not necessarily a pro. What make you a pro in SX/MX in America is a professional license, and no one racing in any class at Loretta Lynn's other than in 250 Pro Sport and Open Pro Sport has a current, active AMA Pro license."

This is what DC wrote and sums it up well. I think he knows what he is talking about since he puts on the event. I have been an AMA referee and was over several area qualifiers, so I am well versed on the rules also.
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6/14/2019 11:24am
The Ark MX story does not say he was dq'd for being a pro, it says he was dq'd for not being a novice.
mx317
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6/14/2019 11:24am
That is not why the guy got DQed. He got DQed because he scored AMA professional points while holding an AMA professional license.
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mx317
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6/14/2019 11:42am
I see I'm arguing with a dumbass, I'm out.
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slipdog
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Location
Nor Cal, CA US
6/14/2019 11:42am
slipdog wrote:
What if a racer was once a pro Snowmobile racer, could he race C class at Loretta's then?
yak651 wrote:
What ever happened to the dude that raced the womens class?
I thought DC put the brakes on that deal in the end. As far as this thread I think Grape is picking up on what I was putting down Laughing
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