LL C class is a joke

h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 7/30/2015 5:07am
7/30/2015 5:07am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 5:09am
Why Sam Franklin is a "C class" rider... http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders/2918-sam-franklin

This young man won the 1st 250C moto at Loretta's...

He raced "C class" in all of 2014 but by the end of the year his RPV was below 15.0 yes by a slim margin see below...
2014 RPV. 250C 14.56 450C 12.75

Any score Below 15.0 RPV allowed Sam to race the "C class" for 2015... Sam did not race the nationals last year so
it's all legit... can't punish a guy for being fast, next year he has to run "B class" no matter how he finishes in the other
motos...
He is not a sand bagger...
GeorgiePorgie 7/30/2015 5:14am
7/30/2015 5:14am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 5:15am
Jeff fox worthy: If you've become an RPV statistician while racing the C class. You might be a sandbagger.

"You" not being any one particular person.
langhammx
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langhammx 7/30/2015 6:33am
7/30/2015 6:33am
Wrong. Your buddy is racing the wrong class. If he happens to do good and somebody protests him, he will be disqualified. I understand that his speed is B class level at home, but C class at Lorettas, but it's still against the rules.
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 7/30/2015 7:18am
7/30/2015 7:18am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 7:19am
The AMA has no power at all... If that's the case,that makes Loretta Lynn's a Joke money grab... $$$...
I am a flip flopper, I am 55 years old and have not raced in years, I was under the impression that you had to
belong to the AMA also to race these NESC, OHIO, PENN. etc... Race Organizations...

Damn, did racing go down hill... I remember in 1977 getting a letter from the AMA saying I could no longer race
in "B class" I had to move to "125 A class" immediately, Mid Season... (a bunch of times there would be over
50 riders signed up in "125B")

Thanks for clearing things up for me...$$$

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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 7/30/2015 7:50am
7/30/2015 7:50am
For the ama, Lorettas is a money grab! I'm just not sure why anyone uses their services anymore.
RMT
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RMT 7/30/2015 8:53am
7/30/2015 8:53am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 8:54am
Would it make you guys feel better if they called the class "250 guys that have never raced LL or any higher than C class in AMA comp"? That is pretty much what they are. Who cares if the guy is winning the B class in his local outlaw race with 8 other guys on the gate.

I know it rubs some guy's raw to see a kid that has skill and is flowing around the track like a boss running the C class, but then again, there are guys that never really got into racing seriously until later in life and maybe are not looking to make a career of the sport. Maybe they should just call it the local hero class.

I wish MXsports would have a second National at LL and have it be for Vet riders on the same track. Maybe have it in Oct. Its hard for most guys from the Midwest and East coast to make it to the Glen Helen event in Nov.
backinthesaddleagain 7/30/2015 4:28pm
7/30/2015 4:28pm
How about the pride of moving up. NESC you earn points and move up. You can or at least could freeze if in the B championship standings and then go to A after the series. Not sure if that changed.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 7/30/2015 5:24pm
7/30/2015 5:24pm
backinthesaddleagain wrote:
How about the pride of moving up. NESC you earn points and move up. You can or at least could freeze if in the B championship...
How about the pride of moving up. NESC you earn points and move up. You can or at least could freeze if in the B championship standings and then go to A after the series. Not sure if that changed.
The pride of moving up doesn't even come close to a 6' championship trophy!

Chicks at the club don't know what C Class means!
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Jaybird67k 7/30/2015 5:35pm
7/30/2015 5:35pm
mjr119 wrote:
Most people do not race pro or B class locally and then race C at a regional or national level. And by most people I mean...
Most people do not race pro or B class locally and then race C at a regional or national level. And by most people I mean 99%. Once you move up a class you should not be able to move back down.
I would like to mention that I do see where people could move back down in class if they have had some issues being health, long time off riding, or whatever the case may be.
They need to contact the AMA and or their local Promoter of the race for direction.

I have also seen people in the Vet classes because of the AMA rider point value move them up in classification from C/D to A/B and that person just will never be any more than a C/D rider and they just get lapped, so I can see it from both sides.

Our top 5 to 10 "C" riders fly at the local level but not so much at LL........they are still fast but the ones faster than them intentionally don't run full race series at the local level to keep their Rider Point Value (RPV) where they want it so they can stay down a class hence sandbaggers.
This is the promoter's responsibility at AMA sanctioned races to keep an eye on this.

Jason
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JerseyFresh 7/30/2015 5:35pm
7/30/2015 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 5:38pm
It is what it is. People sandbag in every single sport. That's part of the game I guess. Having said that, a good friend of mine raced LL in 2004. He raced 125C stock and mod. He won every moto by well over 30 seconds. He was fast as most of the B class, but he was legit. He got his first bike like 2 years before that, and it was his first year off 80s. He got on Suzuki factory am team, No Fear, Scott goggs, renthal, tires, parts the whole deal. Could he have raced B? Yeah, prob could have qualified, but he obviously made the right choice. Point is, don't get salty about it, racing is racing, you get beat you get beat. If they followed/figured out the rules then deal with it. You can't hate someone for trying to get ahead. To add, the rumor mill down there is insane. I heard it all about my buddy down there. He has a very italian name so everyone was trying to say he was some pro from Europe or some shit coming down to the states to cherry pick everyone. He was just a kid from NJ that no one knew because he started racing like a year before that. Don't judge people if you don't know what's up.
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 7/30/2015 6:47pm
7/30/2015 6:47pm
backinthesaddleagain wrote:
How about the pride of moving up. NESC you earn points and move up. You can or at least could freeze if in the B championship...
How about the pride of moving up. NESC you earn points and move up. You can or at least could freeze if in the B championship standings and then go to A after the series. Not sure if that changed.
kkawboy14 wrote:
The pride of moving up doesn't even come close to a 6' championship trophy!

Chicks at the club don't know what C Class means!
The dude that's going to win both the 250C and 250C limited, who ducked under the 15.0 RPV, will also get
$1000 per class from KTM...

2K worth of Contingency...
TheNewOriginal 7/30/2015 6:56pm
7/30/2015 6:56pm
JerseyFresh wrote:
It is what it is. People sandbag in every single sport. That's part of the game I guess. Having said that, a good friend of mine...
It is what it is. People sandbag in every single sport. That's part of the game I guess. Having said that, a good friend of mine raced LL in 2004. He raced 125C stock and mod. He won every moto by well over 30 seconds. He was fast as most of the B class, but he was legit. He got his first bike like 2 years before that, and it was his first year off 80s. He got on Suzuki factory am team, No Fear, Scott goggs, renthal, tires, parts the whole deal. Could he have raced B? Yeah, prob could have qualified, but he obviously made the right choice. Point is, don't get salty about it, racing is racing, you get beat you get beat. If they followed/figured out the rules then deal with it. You can't hate someone for trying to get ahead. To add, the rumor mill down there is insane. I heard it all about my buddy down there. He has a very italian name so everyone was trying to say he was some pro from Europe or some shit coming down to the states to cherry pick everyone. He was just a kid from NJ that no one knew because he started racing like a year before that. Don't judge people if you don't know what's up.
I believe it was 2003. Pasquale Morrocco - he was very fast. My neighbor (kid) was racing that year in that class (7th overall, I believe.). Very similar story, he had only been on a bike for a couple of years. (Was gonna be a bull rider until he rode my sons RM80.) Top 10 in C was an excellent accomplishment given his experience.
OW38B
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OW38B 7/30/2015 7:05pm
7/30/2015 7:05pm
OW38B wrote:
I always found it funny that there is a National Championship for non Pros....or "amateurs" as you like call them. We always had a saying....."There is...
I always found it funny that there is a National Championship for non Pros....or "amateurs" as you like call them.

We always had a saying....."There is no sandbagging in the Pro class"
roninho wrote:
Except for Jeffrey Herlings. That Guy is sandbagging in 250
Nobody is stopping any of the 450cc riders from dropping down and running with him. Wait........does the FIM still have that crazy 23 year rule? If so you still get the point. Laughing
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Talispam 7/30/2015 7:55pm
7/30/2015 7:55pm
JB 19 wrote:
You're obviously a C class hero.....hence all of the beginner butt hurt talk. Bottom line is that the C class was intended for people new to...
You're obviously a C class hero.....hence all of the beginner butt hurt talk. Bottom line is that the C class was intended for people new to the sport....Not people who started racing when they were 4 years old and travel around the country in their diesel pusher hitting all of the biggest races so they can beat up on the real beginners.

If you've been racing for 10 years cut the cord and move up to B and maybe justify the 5 bikes and 100,000$ rig.
I agree, if your riding for a team like Team Green or something you need to be in the A class automatically. It's completely backwards, it's even worse at the local level in the USA, nobody is making them move up, and everyone wants to win something i guess is the logic behind it.
SlowOldGuy 7/30/2015 8:39pm
7/30/2015 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 8:42pm
Not saying that some don't slip through, but with just about every race organization posting results on the internet it is pretty hard to slip through the cracks. Go to a regional and look at all of the people googling all the kids who beat their kid out of a spot and you will see what I mean. If a kid has raced one motocross race in B class (including even a non AMA night race), and it is verifiable that he did, he will be DQed on the spot.
SlowOldGuy 7/30/2015 8:56pm
7/30/2015 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 8:57pm
I have never been to a race in the USA that uses transponders and does not back them up with hand scoring. If a guy is entered in a race, and doesn't show up on the transponder timing, they go to the scorers sheet and give him a finish. Name one guy at LLs this week in C class who runs local B class? Until you name names, it is just bla bla bla to me.

And who is the guy who doesn't run a transponder and is now in A class?

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SlowOldGuy 7/30/2015 9:26pm
7/30/2015 9:26pm
Forkner ran a 154 in 250 B stock. Sam Franklin ran a 208 in 250C Limited, Levi Newby a 206 in 250C mod. All winners of the second motos of those classes. Franklin was off by 14 seconds and newby off by 12 seconds. The winner of moto 2 of 450C was a 212. Which C rider is 4-5 seconds a lap off of Forkner in the second set of motos?

SlowOldGuy 7/30/2015 9:53pm
7/30/2015 9:53pm
Sam Franklin had a few races in 2013, most finishes outside the top 10, Went to 2 regionals in 2014 in C class and didn't make it in either one. Did 20 races in 2014 in C class and almost pointed out but not quite. Didn't sandbag either because his best finishes were at the end of the year when most sandbaggers are trying to shave off points.

2015 getting better and qualified in 2 c classes with a 4th and a 1st. Typical C rider.
racingfortheson 7/30/2015 10:30pm
7/30/2015 10:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2015 10:30pm
The problem is VERY easy to fix. If DC or the AMA would just think about it. One change to the rules and it is fixed. Here it is, If you qualified in the "Area rounds" two times in a class (C or B ) and race in regional rounds, you move up even if you don't qualify for the national. BOOM! Problem solved
peelout
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peelout 7/31/2015 11:48am
7/31/2015 11:48am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 1:20pm
one of you pecker pilots saying that the C class is a joke needs to go tell Rich Taylor to his face that his son's accomplishments this week in 250C are a joke. i'm sure he'll tell you where to go and maybe even show you how to get there.

get over yourselves

photo cred: Christian Munoz (ed, thanks Michael)
JerseyFresh
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JerseyFresh 7/31/2015 12:21pm
7/31/2015 12:21pm
TheNewOriginal wrote:
I believe it was 2003. Pasquale Morrocco - he was very fast. My neighbor (kid) was racing that year in that class (7th overall, I believe.)...
I believe it was 2003. Pasquale Morrocco - he was very fast. My neighbor (kid) was racing that year in that class (7th overall, I believe.). Very similar story, he had only been on a bike for a couple of years. (Was gonna be a bull rider until he rode my sons RM80.) Top 10 in C was an excellent accomplishment given his experience.
You are correct. It was 03, as I just got back from my first Phish show in Maine and then drove straight to TN after we saw how hard he was crushing down there. Squally could have been a satellite team pro, no doubt about it. Just got too into being a teenager.
TheNewOriginal 7/31/2015 12:57pm
7/31/2015 12:57pm
JerseyFresh wrote:
You are correct. It was 03, as I just got back from my first Phish show in Maine and then drove straight to TN after we...
You are correct. It was 03, as I just got back from my first Phish show in Maine and then drove straight to TN after we saw how hard he was crushing down there. Squally could have been a satellite team pro, no doubt about it. Just got too into being a teenager.
I always wondered what happened to that kid. I expected several future LL titles from him, but never saw him race again.
ML512
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ML512 7/31/2015 1:06pm
7/31/2015 1:06pm
peelout wrote:
one of you pecker pilots saying that the C class is a joke needs to go tell Rich Taylor to his face that his son's accomplishments...
one of you pecker pilots saying that the C class is a joke needs to go tell Rich Taylor to his face that his son's accomplishments this week in 250C are a joke. i'm sure he'll tell you where to go and maybe even show you how to get there.

get over yourselves

photo cred: Christian Munoz (ed, thanks Michael)
Photo credit actually goes to Christian Munoz. Neither GuyB nor I are there, we're both a bit busy. Laughing
JerseyFresh
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JerseyFresh 7/31/2015 1:11pm
7/31/2015 1:11pm
TheNewOriginal wrote:
I always wondered what happened to that kid. I expected several future LL titles from him, but never saw him race again.
Yeah tale as old as time....parties and girls. He qualified the following year in B and didn't train or really ride at all so he went like 34-dnf-29 or something and was over it. Raced local A class stuff for a while. He's a union equipment operator, doesn't ride anymore I don't think.
danothemano
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danothemano 11/8/2015 6:34pm
11/8/2015 6:34pm
Easy EK. Dint get all freaked out about an opinion. Every body has their right to their on opinion . Or is that about to be history as well
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JoJmoto 11/9/2015 3:40am
11/9/2015 3:40am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2015 3:42am
We run C class and I can say yes, sandbaggers are everywhere. We have run it for two years now, last year to get his feet wet coming off small bores, this year was our year to make a big run at the class but a torn ACL/fractured femur on the first day of Regionals at the first Regional in Texas left us unable to make the show.

Our plan was to move up even if he did not make it because he is fast enough to run B class, not as a contender but probably a mid pack (At the National level) B class. But I did not want him to stay in C class, rather move on and look forward.

However, to be honest, his surgery is next Friday and we will stay in C class another year due to recovery time. There is no way at the level the C class is at that he could even come back and make the show in C class this coming season. So when he does come back, will he be a sandbagger? In a way IMO, yes, but no where near the level of some of these racers I have seen over the last two years! I have watched kids only run enough AMA events so their RPV does not go over the allowed points to be bumped up.

I have seen kids move up in class only to protest to come back down. I have seen kids who moved off small bikes and lay low at a Pro's house for a couple years to get fast enough to try and win C class in hopes of gaining sponsorships. There is a lot going on in the ol' C class! lol

Edit: So I guess my point is... C class ain't NO JOKE! You better be fast to run it at a National level, its not the entry class it used to be.
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MxKing809 11/9/2015 3:53am
11/9/2015 3:53am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2015 3:54am
JoJmoto wrote:
We run C class and I can say yes, sandbaggers are everywhere. We have run it for two years now, last year to get his feet...
We run C class and I can say yes, sandbaggers are everywhere. We have run it for two years now, last year to get his feet wet coming off small bores, this year was our year to make a big run at the class but a torn ACL/fractured femur on the first day of Regionals at the first Regional in Texas left us unable to make the show.

Our plan was to move up even if he did not make it because he is fast enough to run B class, not as a contender but probably a mid pack (At the National level) B class. But I did not want him to stay in C class, rather move on and look forward.

However, to be honest, his surgery is next Friday and we will stay in C class another year due to recovery time. There is no way at the level the C class is at that he could even come back and make the show in C class this coming season. So when he does come back, will he be a sandbagger? In a way IMO, yes, but no where near the level of some of these racers I have seen over the last two years! I have watched kids only run enough AMA events so their RPV does not go over the allowed points to be bumped up.

I have seen kids move up in class only to protest to come back down. I have seen kids who moved off small bikes and lay low at a Pro's house for a couple years to get fast enough to try and win C class in hopes of gaining sponsorships. There is a lot going on in the ol' C class! lol

Edit: So I guess my point is... C class ain't NO JOKE! You better be fast to run it at a National level, its not the entry class it used to be.
Has he raced for more than 2 years? Then he technically isn't a C rider according to the rules.......


Don't tell California that
motox331
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motox331 11/9/2015 5:34am
11/9/2015 5:34am
Anyone want to petition the AMA to start an E class so guys like me have a chance?

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