L&Mc shut down...

flarider
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25500
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/25/2013 2:21pm
This "the economy is in the crapper" thing is a bunch of crap. Is it what it was say 8 years ago? No, of course not, the economy was existing on a bubble, and a lot of the motorcycle industry was existing on that bubble, so when that bubble burst, it hurt the economy, but the facts today are that the motorcycle industry is recovering and growing. I can name a number of companies, large and small, who've been growing in sales over 2012 and/or 2011, some even longer.
Yes, side by sides are the biggest seller in dealerships, but before that, ATV's also outsold motocross bikes. There are very few, if any, dealerships who can honestly tell you that they make their bones solely on new motocross bike sales. Dealerships thrive on the accessories they sell along with the new ATV, street and side-by-side they sell.
Maybe your local dealer is struggling, but nationally, dealerships are growing and improving.

Ducati, one of the most expensive street brands sold, just announced
Ducati North America on Thursday announced record sales for 2012 -- the company's best year in the market, with a 21% increase over 2011 in total sales of motorcycles and a 42% jump in its apparel division.


and BMW motorcycles, another of the most expensive brands, just announced
BMW broke company records for motorcycle and scooter sales in 2012, with a 2% rise in overall sales and a whopping 15.7% jump for its Husqvarna line.


The japanese OEM's have yet to release year end numbers, but each quarter showed stronger sales, again, may not be at pre-bubble burst numbers, but they are improving.

So, get off the economy thing, at least as it pertains to motorcycles.

Fact is, none or very few of you here know the realities of being part of a team, the expenses necessary and why some of these teams are going away, maybe it's as simple as market over-saturation, the industry can only support so much, and that's not a bad economy thing, that's a business and math thing.

Motocross is not as big as some of you seem to think
mgifracing
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Location
Newton, KS US
Fantasy
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1/25/2013 2:26pm
FELD needs to study the british superbike series and how the WHOLE country gets behind it.
three9zero
Posts
1436
Joined
9/26/2010
Location
Kamloops B.C CA
1/25/2013 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2013 2:32pm
flarider wrote:
This "the economy is in the crapper" thing is a bunch of crap. Is it what it was say 8 years ago? No, of course not...
This "the economy is in the crapper" thing is a bunch of crap. Is it what it was say 8 years ago? No, of course not, the economy was existing on a bubble, and a lot of the motorcycle industry was existing on that bubble, so when that bubble burst, it hurt the economy, but the facts today are that the motorcycle industry is recovering and growing. I can name a number of companies, large and small, who've been growing in sales over 2012 and/or 2011, some even longer.
Yes, side by sides are the biggest seller in dealerships, but before that, ATV's also outsold motocross bikes. There are very few, if any, dealerships who can honestly tell you that they make their bones solely on new motocross bike sales. Dealerships thrive on the accessories they sell along with the new ATV, street and side-by-side they sell.
Maybe your local dealer is struggling, but nationally, dealerships are growing and improving.

Ducati, one of the most expensive street brands sold, just announced
Ducati North America on Thursday announced record sales for 2012 -- the company's best year in the market, with a 21% increase over 2011 in total sales of motorcycles and a 42% jump in its apparel division.


and BMW motorcycles, another of the most expensive brands, just announced
BMW broke company records for motorcycle and scooter sales in 2012, with a 2% rise in overall sales and a whopping 15.7% jump for its Husqvarna line.


The japanese OEM's have yet to release year end numbers, but each quarter showed stronger sales, again, may not be at pre-bubble burst numbers, but they are improving.

So, get off the economy thing, at least as it pertains to motorcycles.

Fact is, none or very few of you here know the realities of being part of a team, the expenses necessary and why some of these teams are going away, maybe it's as simple as market over-saturation, the industry can only support so much, and that's not a bad economy thing, that's a business and math thing.

Motocross is not as big as some of you seem to think
Dealer here.

Our BMW,Triumph, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi and KTM sales are up still climbing. Kawi is doing great too. Suzuki and Yamaha down,
ATV sales are in the SHITTER, high end stuff is selling stronger than ever, low end stuff like japanese cruisers or "heatscore" stuff like 1000cc sport bikes are in the shitter too....
BobbyM
Posts
21449
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
1/25/2013 4:05pm
Insider347 wrote:
As long as you have not been here since the Mdrive days and have over 6000 post then there is no need to post because Guyb...
As long as you have not been here since the Mdrive days and have over 6000 post then there is no need to post because Guyb, Bobby etc . know it all and have all the answers. No need to think "outside the box" or try to suggest new ideas because unless it's approved by a select few then it will just be ridiculed. I just read all the shit for entertainment and hope to find the news I need at the same time. So many experts and real "insiders" here makes it no place for a novice like me to bench race, it's only a mx foumn. oh wait.....
signage is cool to me.

but with the advent of new digital technology you could have the main sponsor names hovering over the riders when shown on tv. superimposed on the screen with scrolling sponsors. not all the time but a good part.

and how many user names do u use again?

The Shop

Robgvx
Posts
3681
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GB
1/25/2013 4:10pm
mgifracing wrote:
FELD needs to study the british superbike series and how the WHOLE country gets behind it.
What? This British superbike championship....?

The one where nobody makes any money?
FlaNard
Posts
3614
Joined
10/13/2009
Location
Layton, UT US
1/25/2013 4:49pm
flarider wrote:
This "the economy is in the crapper" thing is a bunch of crap. Is it what it was say 8 years ago? No, of course not...
This "the economy is in the crapper" thing is a bunch of crap. Is it what it was say 8 years ago? No, of course not, the economy was existing on a bubble, and a lot of the motorcycle industry was existing on that bubble, so when that bubble burst, it hurt the economy, but the facts today are that the motorcycle industry is recovering and growing. I can name a number of companies, large and small, who've been growing in sales over 2012 and/or 2011, some even longer.
Yes, side by sides are the biggest seller in dealerships, but before that, ATV's also outsold motocross bikes. There are very few, if any, dealerships who can honestly tell you that they make their bones solely on new motocross bike sales. Dealerships thrive on the accessories they sell along with the new ATV, street and side-by-side they sell.
Maybe your local dealer is struggling, but nationally, dealerships are growing and improving.

Ducati, one of the most expensive street brands sold, just announced
Ducati North America on Thursday announced record sales for 2012 -- the company's best year in the market, with a 21% increase over 2011 in total sales of motorcycles and a 42% jump in its apparel division.


and BMW motorcycles, another of the most expensive brands, just announced
BMW broke company records for motorcycle and scooter sales in 2012, with a 2% rise in overall sales and a whopping 15.7% jump for its Husqvarna line.


The japanese OEM's have yet to release year end numbers, but each quarter showed stronger sales, again, may not be at pre-bubble burst numbers, but they are improving.

So, get off the economy thing, at least as it pertains to motorcycles.

Fact is, none or very few of you here know the realities of being part of a team, the expenses necessary and why some of these teams are going away, maybe it's as simple as market over-saturation, the industry can only support so much, and that's not a bad economy thing, that's a business and math thing.

Motocross is not as big as some of you seem to think
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't just fucking awesome. Just because bike shops are closing all over doesnt mean things aren't kicking ass somewhere. Just because bike sales are wayyyyyyyyyyyy down doesn't mean anything because everything is awesome. You know how there are like six kids at your local pee wee race now instead of the 100 or so from ten years ago? Well screw em. That doesn't matter because things are awesome. These guys without rides or who ride for free just don't get how fucking pimp and growing everything is. Like these teams closing down. They just don't get it. Noobs. Things have never been better and everything is awesome everywhere so fall in line. Go team.
flarider
Posts
25500
Joined
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/25/2013 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2013 5:29pm
FlaNard wrote:
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't...
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't just fucking awesome. Just because bike shops are closing all over doesnt mean things aren't kicking ass somewhere. Just because bike sales are wayyyyyyyyyyyy down doesn't mean anything because everything is awesome. You know how there are like six kids at your local pee wee race now instead of the 100 or so from ten years ago? Well screw em. That doesn't matter because things are awesome. These guys without rides or who ride for free just don't get how fucking pimp and growing everything is. Like these teams closing down. They just don't get it. Noobs. Things have never been better and everything is awesome everywhere so fall in line. Go team.
Way to take what was said and not just ignore it, but make things up.

Bike sales aren't "wayyyyyyy down"




http://world.honda.com/investors/library/quarter/2011/FY12-4Q-Quarter-F…
Motorcycle Sales - North America - HONDA ONLY

Annual Sales
2010 - 45,000 units
2011 - 38,000 units
2012 - 53,000 units

Now, is up to 53,000 units from 38,000 units an increase, yes or no?
You figure out the percentage.

Yes, some dealers have closed, but so have many other businesses over the last few years. Yes, the economy has gone through a bad time, but as I said is coming back and the sales figures in this industry proves it. Some of the most exclusive and most expensive brands had record breaking years in 2012. A 21% increase in Ducati sales is a HUGE number.

Now, that said, the low turn out at tracks is easy to explain and has been discussed on here many times over the years and can simply be boiled down to riding time vs value. People don't want to pay a minimum of $100 between gate fees, sign up, gas and all the other things to ride for a total of an hour, if that. This problem is not new and has been going on for years as rider/racer attendance has diminished. I remember back in the 70's when 125 Novice was a full 40 rider gate, every other class was 20-30 riders or more. That also the economy? Before I started my business, I worked at a track in Ft Lauderdale, Pepsi/Air Dania, we had the same problem then and that's 11 years ago, more people would turn out to practice than actually race. Racers were a fraction to the numbers we got for practice days/nights....fraction!
It's a byproduct of today's instant gratification and ADHD-like society that doesn't want to sit around and wait. They want the most bang for the buck, and it's hard for some promoters to provide that.

Seriously, I'm sorry if you don't like the facts, but you can't argue the numbers.

(EDIT: By the way, a lot of dealers are closing because of competition from internet retailers and an inability to compete with them. Maintaining a brick and mortar compared to a low cost web presence and the ability to offer lower costs, and in many instance better service, is hard to do. Many dealers are dying because they can't compete, not because the industry is dead)
Vinyard
Posts
22
Joined
1/25/2013
Location
US
1/25/2013 5:50pm
KLM85 wrote:
Go to 1 race in the cheap seats and it is glaringly obvious why these teams can't get sponsors. It is extremely hard to come up...
Go to 1 race in the cheap seats and it is glaringly obvious why these teams can't get sponsors. It is extremely hard to come up with any possible way you could ever get value for your money. Maybe if Meth was legal and you were a dealer you could make some money off your advertising dollars but other than that I don't know.

I honestly couldn't believe the idiots in the stands. First you have the fat turd who is sitting in 3 seats. The one occupied by the center of his crack just happens to be yours. Then you have the 30-40 year old lifetime minimum wage earners who laugh every time they make a paper airplane and throw it. Honestly if your 40 years old and you come to a sx race just to see if you can throw a paper plane all the way on to the track from the cheap seats you should be institutionalized.

On top of all that when you do have a family who actually shows up and makes enough money that advertisers would be interested they never come back because they are surrounded by the above and 10,000 others wearing fmx gear. They can't hear the announcer because everyone around them is screaming about how S**t faced and hardcore they are. The whole time managing to use all 20 words in their vocabulary. They leave never wanting their kids near a bike again.

On top of all this unless your throwing money at one of the top 5 riders and a lot of it your names not even going to get out there.

The truth is you'd be far better off advertising on a moto website than ever sponsoring a rider.
Wow is it really that bad? makes me happy about the state of SX in the UK then, while small at least we only seem to...
Wow is it really that bad? makes me happy about the state of SX in the UK then, while small at least we only seem to get people attending who are actually interested in the racing, the UK scene for my eyes still almost has a small family affair feel to it.
Lets just say what you would refer to as the lowest common denominator of racing fan person in England is significantly more well-rounded than your typical American racing fan.
Hut
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Location
WA US
1/25/2013 5:58pm
Vinyard wrote:
Lets just say what you would refer to as the lowest common denominator of racing fan person in England is significantly more well-rounded than your typical...
Lets just say what you would refer to as the lowest common denominator of racing fan person in England is significantly more well-rounded than your typical American racing fan.
Yeah I'm sure those hundreds of people are all of the highest moral character.
Vinyard
Posts
22
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Location
US
1/25/2013 6:02pm
Vinyard wrote:
Lets just say what you would refer to as the lowest common denominator of racing fan person in England is significantly more well-rounded than your typical...
Lets just say what you would refer to as the lowest common denominator of racing fan person in England is significantly more well-rounded than your typical American racing fan.
Hut wrote:
Yeah I'm sure those hundreds of people are all of the highest moral character.
Yeah, something like that.


I really don't get why the TV package won't scroll a list of sponsors when they show a rider as they are focusing on him..be it on the podium or on the track.
FlaNard
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Location
Layton, UT US
1/25/2013 7:55pm
FlaNard wrote:
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't...
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't just fucking awesome. Just because bike shops are closing all over doesnt mean things aren't kicking ass somewhere. Just because bike sales are wayyyyyyyyyyyy down doesn't mean anything because everything is awesome. You know how there are like six kids at your local pee wee race now instead of the 100 or so from ten years ago? Well screw em. That doesn't matter because things are awesome. These guys without rides or who ride for free just don't get how fucking pimp and growing everything is. Like these teams closing down. They just don't get it. Noobs. Things have never been better and everything is awesome everywhere so fall in line. Go team.
flarider wrote:
Way to take what was said and not just ignore it, but make things up. Bike sales aren't "wayyyyyyy down" [img]http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/MotorcycleSales.jpg[/img] http://world.honda.com/investors/library/quarter/2011/FY12-4Q-Quarter-Fact-Sheet.pdf Motorcycle Sales - North...
Way to take what was said and not just ignore it, but make things up.

Bike sales aren't "wayyyyyyy down"




http://world.honda.com/investors/library/quarter/2011/FY12-4Q-Quarter-F…
Motorcycle Sales - North America - HONDA ONLY

Annual Sales
2010 - 45,000 units
2011 - 38,000 units
2012 - 53,000 units

Now, is up to 53,000 units from 38,000 units an increase, yes or no?
You figure out the percentage.

Yes, some dealers have closed, but so have many other businesses over the last few years. Yes, the economy has gone through a bad time, but as I said is coming back and the sales figures in this industry proves it. Some of the most exclusive and most expensive brands had record breaking years in 2012. A 21% increase in Ducati sales is a HUGE number.

Now, that said, the low turn out at tracks is easy to explain and has been discussed on here many times over the years and can simply be boiled down to riding time vs value. People don't want to pay a minimum of $100 between gate fees, sign up, gas and all the other things to ride for a total of an hour, if that. This problem is not new and has been going on for years as rider/racer attendance has diminished. I remember back in the 70's when 125 Novice was a full 40 rider gate, every other class was 20-30 riders or more. That also the economy? Before I started my business, I worked at a track in Ft Lauderdale, Pepsi/Air Dania, we had the same problem then and that's 11 years ago, more people would turn out to practice than actually race. Racers were a fraction to the numbers we got for practice days/nights....fraction!
It's a byproduct of today's instant gratification and ADHD-like society that doesn't want to sit around and wait. They want the most bang for the buck, and it's hard for some promoters to provide that.

Seriously, I'm sorry if you don't like the facts, but you can't argue the numbers.

(EDIT: By the way, a lot of dealers are closing because of competition from internet retailers and an inability to compete with them. Maintaining a brick and mortar compared to a low cost web presence and the ability to offer lower costs, and in many instance better service, is hard to do. Many dealers are dying because they can't compete, not because the industry is dead)
You just used 2004 as your high point for bike sales. As for your "facts" hey, whatever works for you. Blame society and video games for short attention spans. You and I strongly disagree on what got the sport to this point. We also apparently have a very different idea of where its going.
flarider
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/25/2013 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2013 8:12pm
I didn't make the graph, and actually, 2004 on there is irrelevant, you should be looking at the increase from 2009 - 2011 (post bubble pop), as well as the numbers I provided from Honda, but either way, that graph shows higher sales in 2011 than was in 2004, and 2012 exceeded 2011.

I'm not going to argue it, you believe what you want, I know what I read and what the industry writings from Dealernews, Powersports Business and more have to say.

Again, sorry if you don't like it or agree, but facts are facts and you can't argue the math.
The Rock
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Location
HAIKU, HI US
1/25/2013 8:26pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2013 8:27pm
Racer92 wrote:
Dont forget the annoying brat kids with those annoying 'pit boards' flapping in your face for hours and you cant hardly see, and the drunk moron...
Dont forget the annoying brat kids with those annoying 'pit boards' flapping in your face for hours and you cant hardly see, and the drunk moron behind you spilling beer all over your head.
Toyota pit board give aways for the kids: FAIL For every kid you see on TV there are hundreds more just being an annoyance to people sitting behind them. For the beer deal you can't beat the Family Section to avoid the drunk morons. Does every stadium have a Family Section like Anaheim does?

FlaRider's Motocross is not as big as some of you seem to think is spot on. People continue to miss it is all about marketing the sport to new audiences, On a related point, how smart was Brian Deegan to leave professional MX and do the Metal Mulisha deal? While the whole MM deal is not my thing since I'm way beyond that age group from a marketing standpoint Deegan's a genius.

Deegan's reaped the rewards for thinking outside the box.
ehr400
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2613
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Location
Britton, MI US
1/26/2013 5:52am
This is a bit off topic with everything but isn't Short still eligible for 250f's? Maybe he could fill in for Bagget or Hahn when he gets hurt like every year?
Huckster
Posts
2572
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Location
Woodstock , NY US
1/26/2013 6:07am
FlaNard wrote:
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't...
So there it is. Nothing to see here. Just because nobody shows up for local races at most of our local tracks doesn't mean everything isn't just fucking awesome. Just because bike shops are closing all over doesnt mean things aren't kicking ass somewhere. Just because bike sales are wayyyyyyyyyyyy down doesn't mean anything because everything is awesome. You know how there are like six kids at your local pee wee race now instead of the 100 or so from ten years ago? Well screw em. That doesn't matter because things are awesome. These guys without rides or who ride for free just don't get how fucking pimp and growing everything is. Like these teams closing down. They just don't get it. Noobs. Things have never been better and everything is awesome everywhere so fall in line. Go team.
flarider wrote:
Way to take what was said and not just ignore it, but make things up. Bike sales aren't "wayyyyyyy down" [img]http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/MotorcycleSales.jpg[/img] http://world.honda.com/investors/library/quarter/2011/FY12-4Q-Quarter-Fact-Sheet.pdf Motorcycle Sales - North...
Way to take what was said and not just ignore it, but make things up.

Bike sales aren't "wayyyyyyy down"




http://world.honda.com/investors/library/quarter/2011/FY12-4Q-Quarter-F…
Motorcycle Sales - North America - HONDA ONLY

Annual Sales
2010 - 45,000 units
2011 - 38,000 units
2012 - 53,000 units

Now, is up to 53,000 units from 38,000 units an increase, yes or no?
You figure out the percentage.

Yes, some dealers have closed, but so have many other businesses over the last few years. Yes, the economy has gone through a bad time, but as I said is coming back and the sales figures in this industry proves it. Some of the most exclusive and most expensive brands had record breaking years in 2012. A 21% increase in Ducati sales is a HUGE number.

Now, that said, the low turn out at tracks is easy to explain and has been discussed on here many times over the years and can simply be boiled down to riding time vs value. People don't want to pay a minimum of $100 between gate fees, sign up, gas and all the other things to ride for a total of an hour, if that. This problem is not new and has been going on for years as rider/racer attendance has diminished. I remember back in the 70's when 125 Novice was a full 40 rider gate, every other class was 20-30 riders or more. That also the economy? Before I started my business, I worked at a track in Ft Lauderdale, Pepsi/Air Dania, we had the same problem then and that's 11 years ago, more people would turn out to practice than actually race. Racers were a fraction to the numbers we got for practice days/nights....fraction!
It's a byproduct of today's instant gratification and ADHD-like society that doesn't want to sit around and wait. They want the most bang for the buck, and it's hard for some promoters to provide that.

Seriously, I'm sorry if you don't like the facts, but you can't argue the numbers.

(EDIT: By the way, a lot of dealers are closing because of competition from internet retailers and an inability to compete with them. Maintaining a brick and mortar compared to a low cost web presence and the ability to offer lower costs, and in many instance better service, is hard to do. Many dealers are dying because they can't compete, not because the industry is dead)
FlaNard wrote:
You just used 2004 as your high point for bike sales. As for your "facts" hey, whatever works for you. Blame society and video games for...
You just used 2004 as your high point for bike sales. As for your "facts" hey, whatever works for you. Blame society and video games for short attention spans. You and I strongly disagree on what got the sport to this point. We also apparently have a very different idea of where its going.
Flarider is 100% right. Very few brick and mortar dealers make their living off of motocross. It is a niche market that is not very big in the majority of sales regions in this country. He is also spot on about the local race scene, at least in my area. I can't keep track of the number of my riding friends who have given up on racing and just go to OP's. I am on that fence as well and have scaled back my racing to a few select events and for all of us it is exactly the reason that Dave states. Who wants to spend $100+ to sit around for 12+ hrs and get maybe 20 laps on a 2min track when you can go to an OP for $30 and ride for 3+ hrs or until your too tired to ride anymore. Its a no brainer unfortunately. The majority of my riding friends are Vets and we are the ones who have the income to make the large purchases. I buy from my local dealer(45 minutes away) when I can, but most of the time it is easier for me to just come online and buy from Motosport, Rockey Mountain or one of the big internet guys that has stuff in stock.

You need to separate the Motocross section of the motorcycle industry from the other sections like street, ATV, Harley, etc. I have friends in the industry who work for distributors and some that work for moto only companies. Both tell me that the moto business is struggling but the distributor guys say their business as a whole is pretty good.
yak651
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Location
Appleton, WI US
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1/26/2013 6:41am
flarider wrote:
I didn't make the graph, and actually, 2004 on there is irrelevant, you should be looking at the increase from 2009 - 2011 (post bubble pop)...
I didn't make the graph, and actually, 2004 on there is irrelevant, you should be looking at the increase from 2009 - 2011 (post bubble pop), as well as the numbers I provided from Honda, but either way, that graph shows higher sales in 2011 than was in 2004, and 2012 exceeded 2011.

I'm not going to argue it, you believe what you want, I know what I read and what the industry writings from Dealernews, Powersports Business and more have to say.

Again, sorry if you don't like it or agree, but facts are facts and you can't argue the math.
Just a question, the graph says motorcycles and ATV's, does that include side by sides? Side by side sales are thru the roof, what we need to see is a graph for off road motorcycles. That would show the health of this sport.
mgifracing
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Location
Newton, KS US
Fantasy
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1/26/2013 7:18am
Robgvx, not sure how you see that they don't get paid, the British superbike series is becoming one of the most sought after series to be in. Go read the AMA vs. BSB comparison in Roadracing world and you'll get where I'm coming from on this. You can flame me all you want after you read that. cheers
just James
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1133
Joined
12/20/2012
Location
Wolf Creek, OR US
1/26/2013 9:40am
Dsigner wrote:
Honda Factory Lease program is expensive.
c3011 wrote:
Anybody have any idea of the cost of leasing a bike from Honda?
I believe chad said in an interiew they wanted 500k for a bike for dean. I would assume mcgrath would get some kind of discount but...
I believe chad said in an interiew they wanted 500k for a bike for dean. I would assume mcgrath would get some kind of discount but it still has to be steep
That figure is absolutely insane. I am not saying it is not true, just that it doesn't make sense. If Honda wants its bikes on the track for promotional purposes, why would they charge such an absurd amount to lease one? These are not "works bikes" which are totally hand made. If I understand the rules, most of the bike must be production.
As to the future of the sport. I hope I am wrong, but I really don't see it surviving in the long run. Many reasons for this.
1. The cost of bikes, $8,000-9,000 for something you know you are going to crash, and which needs lots of expensive maintenance.
2. Most kids now live in cities where there is no place to ride. Hence no interest in dirt bikes as they grow up.
3. The cost of insurance for tracks means that they must charge high entry fees.
I no longer race, but what used to be my favorite track to race at, now is almost exclusively a practice track. It is about a three hour drive from my house, and I would have zero interest in driving that far just to practice.
flarider
Posts
25500
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/26/2013 10:44am
flarider wrote:
I didn't make the graph, and actually, 2004 on there is irrelevant, you should be looking at the increase from 2009 - 2011 (post bubble pop)...
I didn't make the graph, and actually, 2004 on there is irrelevant, you should be looking at the increase from 2009 - 2011 (post bubble pop), as well as the numbers I provided from Honda, but either way, that graph shows higher sales in 2011 than was in 2004, and 2012 exceeded 2011.

I'm not going to argue it, you believe what you want, I know what I read and what the industry writings from Dealernews, Powersports Business and more have to say.

Again, sorry if you don't like it or agree, but facts are facts and you can't argue the math.
yak651 wrote:
Just a question, the graph says motorcycles and ATV's, does that include side by sides? Side by side sales are thru the roof, what we need...
Just a question, the graph says motorcycles and ATV's, does that include side by sides? Side by side sales are thru the roof, what we need to see is a graph for off road motorcycles. That would show the health of this sport.
No, they usually don't break it down between street, MX and ATV
Usually you'll see total street numbers, then total off-road numbers, but that will include bikes and ATV's (including side by sides).
No one breaks it out from there that I know of, between bikes, ATV and side by sides....all are classified as "off road"
flarider
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1/31/2013 12:43pm
Follow up since more numbers have come out....


Honda motorcycle sales up 5.7 percent in fiscal Q3
January 31, 2013

Honda Motor Co. reported a 5.7 percent increase in worldwide motorcycle sales (including ATVs) in fiscal Q3 with 3.5 million units sold.
Sales in North America were up 29.2 percent to 62,000 units. The company attributed the increase to the positive impact of the CRF110F, CRF250L and NC700X introductions in the U.S., as well as a rise in sales of the CBR250R. However, sales of the Four Trax Foreman and Rancher decreased in the quarter. Asia was the only other region to see an increase in motorcycle sales, up 8.1 percent to 3.2 million units over the year-ago quarter.
Overall the company had a successful quarter, with net sales up 24.9 percent to ¥2.4 trillion. Operating income was up 197.8 percent to ¥131.9 billion, and net income attributable to Honda Motor Co. up 62.5 percent to ¥77.4 billion.

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