Kudos, Concerns and thanks for KTM!!

Racer111
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Concord, NC US
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 10:12am
Just thinking about it, but whether I do or don't ever own a KTM bike, they deserve some well deserved props for everything they are doing. They actually are the ONLY Compnay out there trying to please EVERYONE.

They still make 2 Strokes and put R&D in to them while maintaing and improving their 250/450 4 Strokes as well as the new 350 4 Stroke.

Yamaha still makes a 2 Stroke, but it is what, 2006 Technology? The big 4 can only rest on their laurels for so long. They are going to have to do more than just EFI and frame geometry to compete with the Monster KTM is trying to become.


NOW for the concerns!

Lakewood - Horsepower robbing track - MXoN - KTM - 350

This bike is already at a 100cc disadvantage. Is Lakewood going to make it even worse?

AC is the Man over in the GP's right now and is an amazing talent for sure. However, I think AC and the rest of the GP guys are already going to struggle with the "altitude" in Colorado themselves, much less his bike as well. I hope he has a 450 prepared for that race. I know KTM and Everts are going to watch Alessi like a hawk at the Lakewood National.

Who picked this track for the MXoN anyway? If the US wins, the GP riders already have a built in excuse for the altitude. And rightfully so. Whoever represents the US there will no doubt have at least 2 years of experience at this place.

Anyway, KTM, I am not sold on you yet, but your head and Company is heading in the right direction and the only one doing so, so thank you and my hats off to you!
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jaeckle
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Hell, WI US
6/17/2010 9:17am
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

newmann
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6/17/2010 9:27am
KTM has it going on. Our 08 144 is the most fun bike on the planet. Wanting to get another KTM 2 stroke soon.
6/17/2010 10:27am
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

i think at the last mxon the motos were 30+2 laps
Racer111
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6/17/2010 11:42am
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

TheCynic82 wrote:
i think at the last mxon the motos were 30+2 laps
He was saying that the fact that the GP riders are use to doing 35+2 laps and that conditioning will somehow help their breathing. I'm not sure where he is getting 3 extra laps in a 5 minute span, but that is not going to help anyway. I don't care if you are Lance Armstrong! You will struggle with the altitude and there is no way around it. Unless the GP riders have a training facility at Eagles Nest in Germany that is.

The Shop

OldPro277
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Location
Avonmore, PA US
6/17/2010 12:09pm
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

Yo jaeckle , your last statement confuses me a little. Any explanation why you feel that way ??
Torco1
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Corona, CA US
6/17/2010 12:25pm
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

OldPro277 wrote:
Yo jaeckle , your last statement confuses me a little. Any explanation why you feel that way ??
??

Racer111
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6/17/2010 12:29pm
Torco1 wrote:
?? [img]http://www.7thandbleecker.com/commie_bastard_logo.jpg[/img]
??

That brought the Lol's!!
OldPro277
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6/17/2010 2:05pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2010 2:05pm
If its any consolation Racer111, I thought your reply was very funny. But that still doesn't answer my question to our boy jaeckle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a flag-waving patriot, ( ok maybe I am ) but those kind of comments bother me. Did all 3 of our riders, which haven't even been selected yet, do some kind of dastardly deed to his wife and kids ? Or maybe your reply did answer the question. Or maybe I'm over-reacting
adamdf
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St. Michael BB
6/17/2010 2:44pm
Racer111 wrote:
Just thinking about it, but whether I do or don't ever own a [b]KTM[/b] bike, they deserve some well deserved props for everything they are doing...
Just thinking about it, but whether I do or don't ever own a KTM bike, they deserve some well deserved props for everything they are doing. They actually are the ONLY Compnay out there trying to please EVERYONE.

They still make 2 Strokes and put R&D in to them while maintaing and improving their 250/450 4 Strokes as well as the new 350 4 Stroke.

Yamaha still makes a 2 Stroke, but it is what, 2006 Technology? The big 4 can only rest on their laurels for so long. They are going to have to do more than just EFI and frame geometry to compete with the Monster KTM is trying to become.


NOW for the concerns!

Lakewood - Horsepower robbing track - MXoN - KTM - 350

This bike is already at a 100cc disadvantage. Is Lakewood going to make it even worse?

AC is the Man over in the GP's right now and is an amazing talent for sure. However, I think AC and the rest of the GP guys are already going to struggle with the "altitude" in Colorado themselves, much less his bike as well. I hope he has a 450 prepared for that race. I know KTM and Everts are going to watch Alessi like a hawk at the Lakewood National.

Who picked this track for the MXoN anyway? If the US wins, the GP riders already have a built in excuse for the altitude. And rightfully so. Whoever represents the US there will no doubt have at least 2 years of experience at this place.

Anyway, KTM, I am not sold on you yet, but your head and Company is heading in the right direction and the only one doing so, so thank you and my hats off to you!
I have to say, i am warming up more and more to KTM myself, if i were buying a new bike now, there is no doubt it would be a KTM, unfortunately i just got my 2010 KX a few months ago so i gotta keep it, damn it, life is so hard! lol
Motodrew295
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Kennewick, WA US
6/17/2010 2:51pm
And when we go electric they look to be putting themselves in the front running, right from the beginning.
Racer111
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6/17/2010 5:21pm
And when we go electric they look to be putting themselves in the front running, right from the beginning.
I think the 350 already is Electric.
Team Euro
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6/17/2010 6:39pm
newmann wrote:
KTM has it going on. Our 08 144 is the most fun bike on the planet. Wanting to get another KTM 2 stroke soon.
If you like the 144, try the 200exc with the MX plastic on it. Bottom end-power-flickability..a dream.
Racer111
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6/18/2010 4:27am
newmann wrote:
KTM has it going on. Our 08 144 is the most fun bike on the planet. Wanting to get another KTM 2 stroke soon.
Team Euro wrote:
If you like the 144, try the 200exc with the MX plastic on it. Bottom end-power-flickability..a dream.
I have a friend who now owns a KTM dealership. I am going to try them all. Wink
fast willy
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Newark, DE US
6/18/2010 6:33am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2010 6:15am
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

Ing
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Location
Spring Hill, FL US
6/18/2010 6:43am
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

fast willy wrote:
Wow, you must be one tough MoFo. I'm skeered just thinking about it. LOL
DrSweden
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Stockholm SE
6/18/2010 7:10am
jaeckle wrote:
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away. The...
Denver International Airport picked the track. That is a fact. Only US track willing to pay the money with an international airport 39 minutes away.

The GP riders race 35 plus 2 laps. Those extra 3 laps will make up for the "alltitude".

The KTM Factory is the dominant force in motocross. Can't wait to sell our CRF450, KX450, and RMZ250. Support the company that invents, supports, and moves our sport forward.

I would love nothing more than to see Team USA get its ass handed to itself on US soil.

fast willy wrote:
He's entitled to have an opinion without risking his life in a modern democracy wouldn't you say? Maybe this attitude is a consequence because he thinks some xenophobics needs to sober up? Just speculating of course...

I don't think threatening people with physical violence is ok, and might be illegal?
WORCSRacer
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Clovis, CA US
6/18/2010 7:49am
Racer111 wrote:
Just thinking about it, but whether I do or don't ever own a [b]KTM[/b] bike, they deserve some well deserved props for everything they are doing...
Just thinking about it, but whether I do or don't ever own a KTM bike, they deserve some well deserved props for everything they are doing. They actually are the ONLY Compnay out there trying to please EVERYONE.

They still make 2 Strokes and put R&D in to them while maintaing and improving their 250/450 4 Strokes as well as the new 350 4 Stroke.

Yamaha still makes a 2 Stroke, but it is what, 2006 Technology? The big 4 can only rest on their laurels for so long. They are going to have to do more than just EFI and frame geometry to compete with the Monster KTM is trying to become.


NOW for the concerns!

Lakewood - Horsepower robbing track - MXoN - KTM - 350

This bike is already at a 100cc disadvantage. Is Lakewood going to make it even worse?

AC is the Man over in the GP's right now and is an amazing talent for sure. However, I think AC and the rest of the GP guys are already going to struggle with the "altitude" in Colorado themselves, much less his bike as well. I hope he has a 450 prepared for that race. I know KTM and Everts are going to watch Alessi like a hawk at the Lakewood National.

Who picked this track for the MXoN anyway? If the US wins, the GP riders already have a built in excuse for the altitude. And rightfully so. Whoever represents the US there will no doubt have at least 2 years of experience at this place.

Anyway, KTM, I am not sold on you yet, but your head and Company is heading in the right direction and the only one doing so, so thank you and my hats off to you!
Why is the 350 altitude performance a concern for you? Do you race a Lakewood much? The highest point in KY is what 4200 ft?

Geez how about buying a bike that would be good for you? How about buying from a company making the effort to provide racer with what they want. Sure seems like you more worried that if the 350 doesn't win at Lakewood then it invalidates it as an option for the enthusiasts. As if the 350 success or failure in the AMA or FIM Championships has any bearing on your results.
pie8man
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Loveland, CO US
6/18/2010 8:16am
IMO of all the places that the 350 will be at a disadvantage it will be Lakewood. My 450 in California compared to here in Colorado is a different machine. The start straight at Lakewood is uphill and becomes part of the track. The second straight a Lakewood is uphill as well. Altitude robs horsepower worse than than anything else. In the end every bike and rider on the track has to overcome the same oxygen deprived environment, it just affects the smaller displacement bikes more.
Outsider
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6/18/2010 8:25am
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
Team Euro
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6/18/2010 8:44am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
A very American orientated trait. Too many moto mags and not enough seat time. It`s a shame that The AMA and the JAP4 have turned the states into a pure commercial orientated brainwashed consumer. Just remember that motocross is 95% rider and 5 % bike. The lesser the talent the greater the commercial aspect of excuses for the machines fault.Typical American excuses.
Outsider
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6/18/2010 9:04am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
Team Euro wrote:
A very American orientated trait. Too many moto mags and not enough seat time. It`s a shame that The AMA and the JAP4 have turned the...
A very American orientated trait. Too many moto mags and not enough seat time. It`s a shame that The AMA and the JAP4 have turned the states into a pure commercial orientated brainwashed consumer. Just remember that motocross is 95% rider and 5 % bike. The lesser the talent the greater the commercial aspect of excuses for the machines fault.Typical American excuses.
Who is this directed at? Me? What excuse did I make?
6/18/2010 9:09am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2010 9:11am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
It is going to rob a percentage of HP right? If it were say 15% of HP off of each one that could mean a hp or so difference...IF they are more than a few HP different.
pie8man
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Loveland, CO US
6/18/2010 9:15am
American trait that we deal with facts. It is a proven fact with all combustion engines that they produce less power at altitude and that the smaller displacement motors are more affected. When you factor in that the current crop of 450's at the factory level are detuned they have more options to deal with the oxygen deprived air.
95/5 rider to bike is a joke. while that is true at the local level, at the professional level without a great bike tuned to the rider they will not be competitive.
Outsider
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6/18/2010 9:16am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2010 9:18am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
It is going to rob a percentage of HP right? If it were say 15% of HP off of each one that could mean a hp...
It is going to rob a percentage of HP right? If it were say 15% of HP off of each one that could mean a hp or so difference...IF they are more than a few HP different.
Yup, your edit jacked me up. lol
pie8man
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6/18/2010 9:26am
It is not a straight percentage of max horsepower lost. If you take the HP and Torque curve and move it straight down the chart and flatten it out a bit. That is what you get. You have to look at it as the distance away from 0 hp and 0 torque and compare the two, not the total amount lost by each.
Team Euro
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6/18/2010 9:31am
pie8man wrote:
American trait that we deal with facts. It is a proven fact with all combustion engines that they produce less power at altitude and that the...
American trait that we deal with facts. It is a proven fact with all combustion engines that they produce less power at altitude and that the smaller displacement motors are more affected. When you factor in that the current crop of 450's at the factory level are detuned they have more options to deal with the oxygen deprived air.
95/5 rider to bike is a joke. while that is true at the local level, at the professional level without a great bike tuned to the rider they will not be competitive.
Too bad that a rider has to be defeated before he even hits the gate, a American excuse trait. The faster you are in the straights the sooner you have to brake for the corner. So if you had a 700 cc bike you would would kick ass on a real 125 jockey because you had power instead of talent and mindset, why go to the gate defeated by thinking about "horsepower" what about talent and confidence.95% rider 5% bike..
Torco1
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6/18/2010 9:32am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
Team Euro wrote:
A very American orientated trait. Too many moto mags and not enough seat time. It`s a shame that The AMA and the JAP4 have turned the...
A very American orientated trait. Too many moto mags and not enough seat time. It`s a shame that The AMA and the JAP4 have turned the states into a pure commercial orientated brainwashed consumer. Just remember that motocross is 95% rider and 5 % bike. The lesser the talent the greater the commercial aspect of excuses for the machines fault.Typical American excuses.
Outsider wrote:
Who is this directed at? Me? What excuse did I make?
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. If anything, it sounds to me like you said there shouldnt be any excuses because everybody is losing hp's in the altitude......not just one bike over the other.
Outsider
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6/18/2010 9:36am
Torco1 wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. If anything, it sounds to me like you said there shouldnt be any excuses because everybody is...
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. If anything, it sounds to me like you said there shouldnt be any excuses because everybody is losing hp's in the altitude......not just one bike over the other.
Exactly.

And any handling advantages will remain. No excuses, imo, of course.

Team Euro
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6/18/2010 9:38am
Torco1 wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. If anything, it sounds to me like you said there shouldnt be any excuses because everybody is...
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. If anything, it sounds to me like you said there shouldnt be any excuses because everybody is losing hp's in the altitude......not just one bike over the other.
Outsider wrote:
Exactly.

And any handling advantages will remain. No excuses, imo, of course.

Miss read ,sorry Outsider...You are right.
6/18/2010 9:42am
Outsider wrote:
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on...
All the bikes will be effected by the altitude, therefore the power differences between 450 and 350, if there is any, (we haven't seen them on the dyno to get actual data,) should be pretty much the same anywhere.

Yet, the improved handling of the 350, (if there is any) will still be the same. imo
It is going to rob a percentage of HP right? If it were say 15% of HP off of each one that could mean a hp...
It is going to rob a percentage of HP right? If it were say 15% of HP off of each one that could mean a hp or so difference...IF they are more than a few HP different.
Outsider wrote:
Yup, your edit jacked me up. lol
My bad. Were you going along those same lines?

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